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RE: Love and Death - 12/18/2006 4:13:43 PM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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Hi All

Thanks for your thoughts; but honestly, I'm not depressed or suicidal in the way most seem to be who say such things. Its just my honest appraisal of the situation I'm in, and the only realistic means of solving it, in the absence of developing schizophrenia or something such that I dont feel anything.

Its what makes it such an "interesting" situation really; that I know I'm worthwhile, that I have so much to offer, that I am straight out of the top drawer in almost every way - crikey, now I sound big headed too! I have zero self esteem issues that I can think up.

But the fact remains, as my sig line indicates, that whatever I do, however I am or look - I'm not "the leading brand". Honestly, as I indicated in my earlier post, an ill educated crack addict into domestic violence has a better chance than me, because she is of the "leading brand". On top of that, an unemployable ex-con alcoholic guy wouldnt be interested in me, for the same reason. And any woman that would be better, and any man that would be better than either of those examples, leaves me dead in the water and is out of my league respectively. Thats the way it is.

Susan; I can appreciate this might be my lot in life, and I can and do struggle through; but to be honest, I've had enough of poor lots and struggling and I dont see why, for whatever higher purpose there is (and there is one), I should have more than my fair share in this life, or why I should accept it permanently without having the option to take the ultimate solution to it all. I've set a date, and thats that, unless something should happen which makes that date redundant, though that seems extremely unlikely.

Naughtygal; honestly, I'm in a state of acceptance right now. I'm not depressed - I have been in the past mind you, so I know the difference between being down sometimes and being depressed. Yes, the emotional pain is bad, but since there is no solution to that, what does one do? You've likely realised by now my situation I'd think; basically I was born male and am being treated for transsexuality. Since transitioning to female, my whole life changed - I gained me, but lost a marriage. I could have not transitioned and kept the marriage of course, but suspect that by now, I'd have been long since dead and buried.

The problem I have, is that to put it as basically as possible, I aint a "real girl", even if I look like one and always have been one really. What this means, leaving aside that I get lumped in with TVs/CDs and so on, is that I am a freak, a defective, a reject. Observe;

a het man, wants a woman; he sees me as "a man in a frock", questions whether he is gay etc
a het woman, wants a man; she sees me as "a man in a frock" too, or else as another woman, whom she has no interest for
a gay man, wants a man; he sees me as a female, and he wants a man after all
a lesbian woman, wants a woman; she sees me as "a man in a frock" / "rapist in disguise" / "whatever else"
and bisexuals seem to want one or the other, not both at once

Its not at all the same thing, but to compare it to being disfigured or disabled is just about a useful analogy too. It is an extraordinary person who can see past labels and take the time to get to know someone labelled, sufficiently to grow to love them, despite societal disapproval. Its just so much easier to reject those who are labelled, and find someone who though perhaps not such a good match, is "acceptable".

The point of my post though, was to illustrate that love is a dangerous thing to risk, as others pointed out better. For me, I'd rather not have loved and now be suffering for its loss, and wish that I could resume the emotional neutrality which I had at 17 when I succumbed and let those barriers down. Why did I have those barriers? 12 years of being bullied through school does that to you, if you want to survive. As things are though, I need to love and be loved, and will never have that again.

E




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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Love and Death - 12/18/2006 5:01:31 PM   
darksdesire


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domiguy

still, you've missed the point of the original post.  She is still with the man she loves as far as i can tell, and is only dealing with his potential death.  The question was, do you choose love, when the possibility of loss is so present.  The poster is in relationship with a man who is ill and whose future is uncertain.

Of course loss is inevitable.  Everyone dies.  That doesn't make it any less meaninful and poignant.  When we bond to someone, their leaving creates a space in our lives.  It takes time to heal from loss.  It doesn't matter that people die everyday, it doesn't matter that every one of us will die...those facts don't lessen the impact of loss, nor should they. 

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RE: Love and Death - 12/18/2006 5:51:09 PM   
sophia37


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To Lady Ellen. I understand your situation well. So well that Im going to have to say the only thing I can say.

2018 is 11 years away. From the day you were born till then, I believe you can live an honarable and entire lifetime. Perhaps knowing the day of your own death gives you the edge over those of us who will never know. And perhaps, knowing this, you will live life more intensily. More fully. Even with the hurt, you wont be wasting your time. And so then, I salute you. You're choice is as acceptable as any other.  

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RE: Love and Death - 12/18/2006 6:25:08 PM   
domiguy


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O.K.  Perhaps domiguy aint up to speed after all...But I am sorry to dissapoint anyone out here but I have never, ever ..even once, and I can't imagine I am alone in this, thought of the downside of love being the loss of my partner.

I have spoken af practical matters such as race or distance or politics...but I guess the least of my worries is my partners death.  I might have thought of their death as a convenient escape route...(And I am sorry. I know in the light of this original post that death is the subject and I hope an attempt at humor will not be taken any other way.) However, whatever loss I would feel at my partner's passing I don't believe would ever overshadow to the gain of her in my life.

The wonderful thing about life are the chances we take...I have pretty much always believed it's not better to be safe than sorry...or always leap before you look....Hate to continue on with cliches...but on a roll...ok... I'll stop.

Anywhoo we see death everyday...we read about the plane crash as we butter our toast...You not going to fly?  I'm sorry but,one more to go, life is meant for the living...and to hide  from love due to the prospects of it ending...is paramount to being a coward.

I don't know about god or any other metaphysical.crud...but I do firmly believe we are capable of infinite love and we do have a purpose...and we were meant to be free in our thoughts and to live out our dreams...Hesitation,trepidation and fear are the killers of lives and of dreams...Live on.

Heavy sir...yes but it had to be said.

out.

D.G

p.s. Jesus please protect me from your followers

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RE: Love and Death - 12/18/2006 9:41:34 PM   
ZenDragoness


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Rayne i am in total agreement concerning the DNR as is Michael, because  my mother is in a waking coma since her last suicide attempt (2000) and most of her brain is destroyed, i (we) had to discuss and decide about things like that in depth.

OT//I am still curious to learn more about your wedding, did you made somewhere a thread about it or are there pictures?//


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RE: Love and Death - 12/18/2006 9:48:22 PM   
darksdesire


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Domiguy

Exactly!  

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RE: Love and Death - 12/18/2006 9:51:23 PM   
ZenDragoness


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LaTigresse, beautiful to read you here one, crouching Tigress visited before. Two Tigresses in one thread making my very happy, because a very old nick of mine is SawtoothTigress, always used when the going got tough. I used to dream about tigers.

" I know that I have a capacity to love that is almost frightening to most."

This sentence of you echoed strong with me, till Michael i often experience the same, my kind of love was so untamed and strong, that it frightened and fascinated. But angst or being afraid is not a good component of partnership. Michael is not afraid of me or of my love for him or his love for me. Maybe that is the root of the whole problem. As long as i was in my relationships the fearless one and with that mostly the leading one, i could not feel my weaknesses....

It is getting clearer and clearer. LaTigresse, i wish a love like you desire on your way.




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RE: Love and Death - 12/18/2006 9:53:32 PM   
ZenDragoness


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Areflectionofyou, i sincerely hope that Randy and you will have a long lightful road ahead.

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RE: Love and Death - 12/18/2006 9:56:35 PM   
MaryT


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Lady Ellen - you are really going to hate this:  It doesn't matter if you wait until your child is 18.  If you commit suicide, you teach that child that suicide is an acceptable solution to unhappiness.  If you want to teach a different lesson, do whatever you would hope that child would do if faced with your circumstances.

MaryT

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RE: Love and Death - 12/18/2006 10:09:50 PM   
ZenDragoness


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Lady Ellen:

I did not read your post as one of an impending suicide. Please correct me, if i understand you wrong. I understand, that you created a box now, a clear defined box, that will allow you, to stay in your existence. Sometimes in life, it is necessary to create a box like that, it gives structure. I can understand you pretty well concerning the gender issue. I am a born female, but felt from an early age on like a boy, between 15-18 i informed me about transsexuality and the surgical possibilities. They were round 25 years ago for a FtM transformation very bad, so i decided to live on in my after puberty very female body.
Till today i have to mimikry when i am together with women, i do not understand their rituals, i do not understand the way they fight and build hierarchies, but i find them fascinating.

Lady Ellen, i will send you my love and strength, it is not  far from Berlin to Stourport, England.

Ruth

< Message edited by ZenDragoness -- 12/18/2006 10:11:34 PM >


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RE: Love and Death - 12/18/2006 10:12:44 PM   
ZenDragoness


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Sophia37: So very well said, i thank you for visiting and finding this rightful words!

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RE: Love and Death - 12/18/2006 10:40:54 PM   
SDFemDom4cuck


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quote:

How do cope with loving like this?


By appreciating and living every day as much as possible.

quote:

Does wiiitwd make a difference?

I don't think it does except perhaps to deepen the bond.

quote:

If you not have found a love like that, would you like to or not? If not, why?


I've had it, and lost it, quite suddenly and at a rather young age. It was many years before I could ever even think of attempting to love or be loved again. In the interim I have probably avoided being loved simply to not have to go through the grief of losing someone I loved so deeply ever again. Then comes the realization...wouldn't they want you to be happy? to be loved? To be cared for again? Of course they would, so why shouldn't you love yourself enough to want that as well. Again it has been over 10 years and am just now at the point of looking for it again.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

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RE: Love and Death - 12/19/2006 1:58:44 AM   
SusanofO


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LadyEllen: I know you've made your decision and I do respect that (I do). But, to answer your question as to why this should be your lot in life? Excellent question! My answer would be - because the rest of us are too chicken to take on that kind of life, and chose different burdens to carry instead.

I don't believe people's burdens are all equal (contrary to that old Indian fable about the man who had his troubles in a knapsack, and wanted to trade them for some else's and found out the other person's were different but just as heavy). I think some people definitely do get heavier burdens in life. But not because they are being punished for something. Quite the opposite. Because they really maybe can handle more than some other people can, probably. 

This may sound insane, but the book I am reading has a theory that people all choose their relatives, friends, geographic location(s), careers, and major "hurdles" they will need to try to overcome or deal with in their lives before they incarnate (are born). Then when they are born, they forget what they chose as their "life plan" (or else it wouldn't be as much of a challenge). The goal is to choose particular circumstances that will force their soul to grow in areas they think they, themselves, in particular, need to work on.

At one time, I dealt with a wee alcohol addiction, for instance. So, if this theory turns out to be true,  maybe addiciton is one of the areas I needed to (and chose to) work on. Patience is another, I am sure. And also maybe self-acceptance and a few more, besides those. Maybe that is why certain stuff happens to me, and not someone else. Maybe it's why I was born in Omaha and not in Australia, for instance. Maybe it's why I have two sisters and no brothers and an idiot for an ex-Dominant. I am not sure. But this theory seems to explain a lot to me that I never understood at all before.

Anyway, the theory is that one's "guardian angels" (on the "Other Side") never let people choose burdens that they know they won't be able to do because they are just too hard. To be born in the first place, people supposedly have to pass a stringent inspection and counselling process regarding the "life plan" they are choosing for their soul's growth on the "Other Side"  before they are born (where we come from, and where we go when we die), so - there is very little chance they won't be able to complete their (pre-chosen) "mission."

If something some soul wants to accomplish is just too ambitious for their personality and circumstances they anticipate operating within, they supposedly get talked out of it before they get here.

Ergo, only the really strong people get to deal with the extra heavy-duty stuff (severe non-consensual abuse, starvation, horribe life-time crippling diseases, and what you are dealing with - because it is so misunderstood, along with other horribly challenging circumstances). I have no idea if this book is "true" or not, but find it a very comforting theory, that makes about as much sense as anything else I have read. I like to think it could very well be true. Nobody's proved otherwise.

People's lives (acc.to this book) also take on a major and a minor "theme" (chosen by themselves). Rejection (your theme to deal with, it seems) is one of the absolute hardest ones there is - because the person feels no support for themselves, at times it seems like not only their close relatives and acquaintances may reject them, but in fact, the entire world, in some ways. The goal of choosing this theme (supposedly, and it makes sense to me) is for their soul to finally accept itself as a child of God, warts and all - but it can be a very, very difficult theme to live out. Who else chose this as a theme? Ever see the movie "The Elephant Man?"  Those kinds of people. People nobody really seems to want to see. Homeless, mentally ill street people. "Weirdos."

Patience is another difficult one to live out, because just when things start to go okay, the _hit hits the fan again in a big way. another "challenge" is looming that needs dealing with, and nothing, it seems, is ever "tranquil" for very long, and the kinds of things that happen to people w/this "life theme"are the kinds of things with no gaurantee at all, as far as things ever "working out" for them favorably, or not. Challenging circumstances that go on for years w/no end in sight, etc.

But I hope talking about it didn't insult you in any way. I know I  never would have told my mother the reason she was dying of cancer was because she "chose it" (even if she did). But maybe she did? Who knows?  There is a reason for everything, I like to think. It all probably sounds inane. It's a completely non-denominational theory (that is undoubtedly in conflict w/many other religions, but so what)? It kind of makes sense to me, in many ways. The name of the book is "Life on the Other Side" by Sylvia Brown. I know some people don't agree with her, but I like to keep an open mind.

If you do go through with this, I want to say it is nice to be able to enjoy your company while you are here. I think your presence adds a lot to the CM boards. 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/19/2006 2:24:49 AM >


_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: Love and Death - 12/19/2006 4:37:17 AM   
LadyEllen


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Zuerst muess ich mich bei ZenDragoness entschuldigen; das war nie meine Absicht, Ihr Thema/Ihre Frage zu ubernehmen! Und ja Sie haben rechts - elf Jahren ist ein Rahmen fuer mich; bis dann leb' ich weiter, aber bis dann ist es elf Jahren mehr, insgesamt wird es 16 Jahren sein, seitdem ich Liebe gehabt habe. Wenn mir kommt keine Liebe waehrend der kommenden elf Jahren, dann nehm' ich meine erwaehnte Loesung. Das Leben, ohne Liebe ist kein Leben, meiner Meinung nach, und das ist kein Selbstmord, weil ich schon tot bin.

E

< Message edited by LadyEllen -- 12/19/2006 4:41:55 AM >


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RE: Love and Death - 12/19/2006 4:40:16 AM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

Lady Ellen - you are really going to hate this:  It doesn't matter if you wait until your child is 18.  If you commit suicide, you teach that child that suicide is an acceptable solution to unhappiness.  If you want to teach a different lesson, do whatever you would hope that child would do if faced with your circumstances.

MaryT



Hi Mary
Yes, I understand what youre saying. But eleven years is a long time to plan things so that it wont be a suicide, even it was planned. I'm aware of the effect on others, and will make sure its right.
E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Love and Death - 12/19/2006 4:46:50 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sophia37

To Lady Ellen. I understand your situation well. So well that Im going to have to say the only thing I can say.

2018 is 11 years away. From the day you were born till then, I believe you can live an honarable and entire lifetime. Perhaps knowing the day of your own death gives you the edge over those of us who will never know. And perhaps, knowing this, you will live life more intensily. More fully. Even with the hurt, you wont be wasting your time. And so then, I salute you. You're choice is as acceptable as any other.  


Hi Sophia
Youre right with all you say. I'm not sitting here with doom and gloom waiting for anything. I have a plan with a definite deadline, and work to that. Its immensely liberating in that way; I'm in the position everyone will one day find themselves in - with a few years left and bereaved, but with the advantage of comparative youth on my side, and plenty to pack in, rather than being in my 80s in ill health and having no interest or part in life anymore.
E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Love and Death - 12/19/2006 7:42:16 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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Hi Susan

I had a reply all written out and lost it! arrggghhh!

Anyway, the jist of it was, that yes I know I'm pre ordained to this life, but I'm not pre ordained to suffer forever, and that whilst suicide is something which only leads to repeating more or less the same thing in a new life, I am aiming for something different in that regard; not a new life, but return to whence we all came. This sounds daft, but this world is not what it seems is something I have learned, and that there is something beyond to which we belong. I have the knowledge, and am working on its realisation for this purpose. I do not intend to live in blinded slavery in this prison house again.
E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Love and Death - 12/19/2006 8:01:28 AM   
darksdesire


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Lady Ellen

I can only imagine what the world must look like from your eyes.  Gender is one of our earliest and most fundamental definers of our identity, and people can so easily get confused when someone does not fit into a particular category.

The thing is, while I can't identify with the complexities of gender, I can identify with that feeling of being stamped as "defective"   Perhaps my own stamp was more self imposed, but who knows. 

Even since childhood, I've longed for connectedness and trust.  As a young adult, I held firmly to the belief that there had to be something bigger and more meaningful than these empty, isolated relationships I seemed to find myself in.  But no matter how hard I tried, or how hard I worked, I simply couldn't build the intimate and loving connection with a partner.  A few years ago I realized that I would never have the kind of love I've always longed for.  I came to the conclusion that either I was not capable of it, or that what I wanted was unrealistic.  I had lost hope and was determined to simply carry on with my life the best I could, finding fulfillment in other areas.

But then....just when I wasn't looking, it happened, and I fell into the kind of love I had previously decided was unrealistic; real intimacy, deep trust and connectedness.  Frankly, I still think I wear a defective stamp, although mine is only obvious to the one who loves and knows me.  He is well aware of those broken, defective places and seems to love those parts of me as much as my healthier places.

I don't know what my point is.  I know you've probably struggled and thought long and hard.  I guess I'm only saying that I will hang on to hope for you.   

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RE: Love and Death - 12/19/2006 11:33:00 AM   
wishes1961


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I trully feel for your dilema. I am in the reverse of that situation as I, while 13 years younger then Master, have a cronic progresive, non-curiable disease(copd). I have been up and down in emotions since i was diagnoised a few years ago. What i found helps me was to sit down and talk it out. it did take more then a few days to do so and ocassionaly the subject comes up. We dedicded to live each day to the best of our abilities and to apreciate life. At this time i am actually doing a lot better then in the past, we call it a miriacle, but realize things can always take a turn. We strive to make memories each and every day.
The main thing that i believe changed my attitude was one day i got MAD very mad and said hell i am not dying today and got up out of bed and declaired i was going to live each day to the best of my ability.

wishes

(in reply to darksdesire)
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RE: Love and Death - 12/19/2006 1:33:51 PM   
SusanofO


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LadyEllen: Thanks for the reply. My heart really goes out to you. I wish you well for the rest of the time you are here...

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 60
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