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A newbie asking about learning... - 12/25/2006 9:27:10 AM   
ymrkaicho


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Recently I came in contact with a "sub" not realizing anything about this lifestyle. I've been extremely impressed with her knowledge of herself and the intelligence that goes with it. So as a result of being impressed I started looking into this lifestyle. I see myself as a dominant personality to begin with naturally (Alpha male), but in research so far I've seen that being a "Dom" is a HUGE responsibility in doing it proper. Or at least thats the way I see it. I never have been into abusing people mentally or physically, but have provided for others in past relationships bindings and such during erotic play. Being in control is definitely a huge turn on for me. Tried switching and it did nothing, in fact quite the turn off..

I guess what I'm asking is how one goes about learning how to be responsible, appropriately committed, and in a state of moving forward in being an excellent "Dom" or Master..
My teachings in the things I "do" in life have titles of Master to them.. So I understand "Mastery" of things and it takes a determined dedication and responsibility to others..
(I have Masters gradings in things like Martial Arts, Chinese medicine (Asian Bodywork) and Reiki amongst other things..)

So where do I start stepping in the correct direction to persue these curiosities in this lifestyle?
Any responses are helpful.
Thanks
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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/25/2006 9:49:12 AM   
MasterFireMaam


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Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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Getting out into the kink community, both locally and nationally, is really the best option. If you go to google and put in "BDSM" and your nearest large city, you should get some hits. Also, if you use the search funtion above, search my postings for a list of books.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to ymrkaicho)
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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/25/2006 9:51:52 AM   
RedSavageSlave


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There are many books and resources out there..

The most predominantly recommended one is The Loving Dominant by John Warren (who posts on this site by the way).

There are others that I am sure other members will recommend..but I will tell you that probably the best resource is to find your local community (or the one closest to you) and get to know others real time. Watch what they do, how they interact, and decide what will work within your realm of needs. There are many communities who have workshops and seminars...gatherings, discussion groups..there are also online support groups through yahoo or other sites (although I cannot think of any others right now).

Just keep in mind as you continue on your journey..no matter what anyone tells you...There is no ONE WAY to do this. It must be natural and comfortable for you or it will not work for you. Labels are meaningless as each label will mean something different to each person using it. Be yourself..find how being dominant works best for you and then find the partner who is compatible and will compliment your nature.

Good luck and welcome to the CollarMe boards~
jessie

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So many thoughts, so few of them rational

(in reply to ymrkaicho)
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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/25/2006 10:15:23 AM   
julietsierra


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I'm not a dominant, but from my point of view, you've already got a lot of the basics.

By "basics," I mean that in your positions within Martial Arts, Chinese Medicine and Reiki, you have to know yourself, and have a plan as to how you get yourself and those under your care to where you want them to be. You have to know how and when to push them past where they think they're capable of going to where they really have the ability to go, and you need to know the difference between perceived capability and actual ability. You have to be consistent. You have to be compassionate when it's called for and a task master when that's called for as well - and you have to know when to do what. And above all, you have to have a genuine respect of the lengths people who submit to you are willing to go in the effort to serve you, and the people themselves for their willingness to be pushed past their comfort levels.

Probably the biggest difficulty I see in people who claim to be dominants (and I'm not saying they aren't) is that they lack a plan, both for themselves and what they want out of a relationship, and for the submissives they are with. They change their minds and their approaches regarding control in ways that leave submissives completely confused. I'm not talking about those who simply have a change of heart, but those dominants who are so confused by themselves that they don't know how to reach a submissive's desire to serve, and begin demanding even while having no idea of the ramifications of their demands. In short, they have no real clue as to what dominance means to them or where they're going.

As you read these forums you'll find that if you were to narrow down all the complaints to common themes, that inconsistency ranks pretty high up there. So too are the inability to learn as you go, and the ability to watch a submissive and accurately gauge her willingness to step to new levels. Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, submissives have just as much to teach dominants as dominants have to teach submissives. The topics and approaches are different, but it's there nonetheless. Most of all though, dominants need to be able to acknowledge that power has the ability to corrupt and they have to know - and believe that before they control a submissive, that they need to control themselves - and can.

On top of that, a dominant has to love things about those who submit. I'm not talking on an individual level - as in "I love you," but as an example, if a dominant has a female submissive, it is my opinion that he or she genuinely has to love women. To me, anything less is operating from a position of ... well... less.

I suppose, if I were a dominant, the very first thing I'd be doing is sitting down with myself to decide what I want, what I can manage at this time, and where I want to go. Then, I'd spend time meeting others, attempting to figure out who I considered reputable for my own plans, and listening, talking, learning about the intricacies of this life. I'd be reading everything I could get my hands on - not as so much a "how-to" manual, but more to understand where the myriad of ideas we tend to live by come from and what resonate with me. And I'd be dealing, as best I could, with societal teachings up to this point that might be negatively affecting my ability to move in this direction. These include things like "hitting a woman is always wrong," and "relationships are 50/50." While egalitarianism is a nice, feel-good idea that most of us have been raised with, it is not necessarily a hallmark of a D/s relationship.

Finding a submissive to play with would be the very last thing on my list of things to do. In a world where 90% of what we do is mental and 10% physical, the physical should  take a back seat to learning, but often does not because people get anxious to try these new things they're learning.

Above all, the same lessons submissives need to learn are good lessons for dominants - even if not taught in the same way. Patience and integrity and honor are not just words, but something to live by and actively engage in. 

If all else fails, fall back on your Martial Arts teachings. Samurai were first and foremost, servants to their Master, and mastering, to me, requires a sound knowledge and awareness of the effort it takes to serve.

Those are what, like those self-help books "What women wish their men would know" I, as a submissive, would wish dominants to know.

It's what I looked for - yes, with a plan for myself as to what I wanted and where I wanted to go, and what it is I found in my Master. It takes time, both to learn and to find what you want, and especially in terms of a Master, it's not really something anyone should shirk on.

Good luck to you.

juliet

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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/25/2006 10:44:54 AM   
ymrkaicho


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Thanks for all the great info and insight to moving forward with things so far..
I really appreciate any help in learning anything..
Juliet: Some of your comments give me a great deal more confidence in doing what Jessie says about things being "natural" for me.
I've been in "charge" in a martial arts setting for over 20 years. So discipline is a quite familiar vein - but there are times when the power stuff is more damaging than the way to push someones growth. So I'm thinking, working from my past experiences and learning and watching from what I know works with people in general etc is of most importance to me.  just know that whatever I undertake.."I am responsible"...which is why I'm so keen on asking questions and reading etc.
These are the books on the way for me now ;
The Masters Manual  : Jack Rinella
The Compleat Slave  Jack Rinella
Jay Wisemans Erotic Bondage Handbook
The Loving Dominant  John Warren
The New Topping Book  Dossie Easton
The Seductive Art of Japanese Bondage   Midori  (I always liked Hojojutsu..art of binding..)

Got a lot of reading coming my way ;-)
Thanks everyone..
any more comments would be great!

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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/25/2006 10:55:54 AM   
julietsierra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ymrkaicho

These are the books on the way for me now ;

The Loving Dominant  John Warren


Well then, you're just the person for the job!!! As you read The Loving Dominant, keep an eye out for typos, sentence fragments, etc...

(There is a post in one of these forums from John Warren talking about being asked to do a new edition of this book and he asked for any input as to what might be changed up a bit without detracting from the original message. Just thought I'd give you a "heads up" regarding that

And yes, you're so right about that power stuff having the potential to be damaging. I wish more understood that and respected that potential.

Good luck to you.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 12/25/2006 10:59:01 AM >

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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/25/2006 1:09:56 PM   
slavejali


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My Master is a Martial Arts Master too, I think the discipline that martial arts practitioners cultivate really helps in a D/s relationship. Sometimes I think all Masters and Mistresses should take martial arts, as well as all slaves and submissives hehe.

You've probably got the Mastery part "Mastered"..maybe you just need to look into expanding your knowledge of kink (aka play). The best place to learn that is through demonstrations (face to face) not by reading a book. I kinda raise my eyebrow a bit when books have play instructions in them (when dealing with some aspects of play). As you know from martial arts, reading about it and doing it are two different things. The best way to learn is to have someone experienced show you.

_____________________________

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"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/25/2006 1:35:16 PM   
Donnalee


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I also think your experience in martial arts will give you a great head start in your quest.  As you read those books, I'm sure you'll find examples of what they're talking about within your 20 years of teaching an art that is all about power exchange.  Look back over those who were good students and those who chafed at the bit all the time; ones who really felt the honor of a bow...on either side of it.  Those who always thought they knew more than they did, those who never claimed the power within themselves, and all the unneccesary hassles both of those mistakes brought them.

Think back to when you first started in classes and were learning to submit.  You had to exchange power with those who might give you knowledge....were they always prepared?...were they honorable?  What was it like when you had a student-teacher without a plan? 

What did it feel like inside of you when someone first brought something out in you that you weren't sure you had in you?  The pure joy of blossoming.  The connection between that teacher and you.  The respect that you felt for them and the pride in yourself.  Think of  special students that you brought up through the ranks.

This lifestyle has the opportunity for you to mine those experiences in a whole new way...combining great sex, deep relationships, structure....and other very heady stuff.

Have fun, and take your time.  You sound like you've got a great attitude, and that goes a long way.

(in reply to slavejali)
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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/25/2006 2:27:16 PM   
Focus50


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I hardly think mastery of martial arts etc is an indicator of mastering a slave responsibly.... 
 
I'd think the better answer comes from the state your current life is in, considering how old you are (49).  Question is do you have your 'shit' together and all facets of your life in general at least under control?  If you can give an honest "yes", I'd say you're off to a good start in finding any lifestyle Master within, assuming that is your need beyond "this week's new experience"....
 
Good luck. 
 
Focus.

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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/25/2006 5:06:43 PM   
ymrkaicho


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More great stuff folks. Really appreciate the feedback.
Donnalee,
Your ability to compare to an MA environment is very helpful on how I would look insightfully into an appropriate and healthy way to approach such things. No matter what it is I'll read or learn, I know what I know about people and personalities. I'm very attached spiritually to the concepts of karma and how I am responsible and that can come back on me a lt more than ten fold. The key words for me in your statement was "great head start". Because it is only these past experiences and how I still have to be the little guy on the totem pole to my master in Japan. So I still experience what it is like to be on the supported student end of things..even after 35 years in the arts (teaching was  20) I still am a student of all things.
Focus brings up an excellent point as did slavejali as well. Reading from books is "helpful" to gain insight, but hardly a way to actually learn. With some help here and from some of the people I've met and will meet in the lifestyle, I'm sure there will be a much greater insight to things totally different from knowledge gained from books.
Focus - when you presented the self question of "do I have my own shit together.." I had to smile. You reminded me of my past master in MA's years ago. It was one of the things constantly stuck in our face to maintain self focus on being a teacher, let alone mastery of those arts.
There is a book that I refer to after all these years almost religiously...and started to kick up memories today after leaving to go meet someone in the lifestyle today who is a "sub/slave" by self definition...
The book is called "The Masters Game" and referred to Life Mastery as being a master of ALL the games of life..not just master of Art,Religion,Home,Buisness, Knowledge, etc.. and that all these things were just games but to be a master you must excel at all the games - all the time.. otherwise you were not really a master.
I had the book shoved in my face to remind me of lifes goals for at least a decade with my now deceased teacher.
So to Focus.. I would humbly say "yes" but because ego can cause such a disruption in keeping the focus on Mastery that one (I), have to be careful to watch and do the work and not just puff up and say "yeh - I'm a master", or "yeh- I have my shit together.." But I can confidently say I do more than most..
I don't do American Sport  martial arts by the way.. Which is why I travel to Japan each year to train..because many in the MA's in the US that claim to be masters are full of horsepuckey, plain and simple.

(in reply to Focus50)
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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/25/2006 7:07:34 PM   
diamonddreamlove


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Your willingness to learn is a major plus.  Most important to me as a slave is that you acknowledge that being a Dom/Master is a lot of responsibility.  Too often new folks seem to think it is just a piece of cake without any responsibility.  Read and please join the local group!

_____________________________

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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/26/2006 9:45:06 AM   
Celeste43


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Keep your word. Don't promise things you aren't positive you will do and do what you say. Be someone trustworthy and someone worthy of respect. Have open and honest communication, on both sides, with your partner.

The play aspects are the least. Read and see what appeals, then explore going slowly to not get in above your head. Read basic safety books to give you a solid foundation.

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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/26/2006 5:30:02 PM   
Donnalee


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Ahh....if you've been exposed to  The Master's Game, then you'll get something that you'll see time and again on these boards....those who will identify this as a lifestyle, but are stunned when real life enters the arena.  No matter how tantric you can become, you can't be having a scene 24/7.  The structure of the relationship, and the personality of the participants are what makes it a lifestyle.  What you know about people and personalities still apply. 

I've gained a lot of opportunities to listen from reading these threads.

Enjoy!

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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/26/2006 7:56:09 PM   
Voltare


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YMK,

No need to be too humble to anyone here.  Take good advice where you find it.  Everything you really needed to learn about being a good Dom you probably picked up in elementary school & your folks.  Don't force it if it doesn't fit, no does mean no (unless agreed otherwise before hand) and being a Dom doesn't excuse being rude.

These message boards are just like any other melting pot of ideas on the net (and real life.)  You have people from all walks of life with many different degrees of experience (real and imagined.)  In a few weeks or months, you'll be able to quickly pick out who's down to Earth, and who's from Neptune.

Most important:  this whole BDSM D/s M/s alphabet soup is just another way of looking at life, another tool (fancy and shiny as it is) among many.

dozo yoroshiku,
Stephan


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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/26/2006 10:11:48 PM   
slavejali


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quote:

I don't do American Sport  martial arts by the way..


Yes, there is a world of difference between sports martial arts and traditional martial arts. Being a Master of sports martial arts is akin to being a Master of..umm...lets see..tennis, bowling or football...not gonna really help you "Master" yourself, let alone a submissive or slave *grin*

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/28/2006 1:59:58 AM   
FrankAr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ymrkaicho

I never have been into abusing people mentally or physically

Any responses are helpful.
Thanks



Tal YMR,

I just have one thought.  You mentally have to get rid of THAT  thought, about the abuse.  Now if I paddle a female's arse, some nilla person is going to jump up and down and yell abuse, some in the BDSM world will just see how I operate the paddle and see the effect upon the female.  Many people have different thoughts about abuse, I tend to believe that between 2 consenting adults, it is not abuse.  It only strays past the line of abuse if you actually go out of the way to hurt the female, or to mark her against her wishes.  If she wants her boundaries pushed, then push them inch by inch, not meter by meter, if you understand this.

Apart from that, go slowly, enjoy your time with females, and learn by communication.

Be well and take care.

Master Frank Ar.


< Message edited by FrankAr -- 12/28/2006 2:01:52 AM >

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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/28/2006 8:46:13 AM   
MadRabbit


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Well personally, just reading your post was incredibly refreshing. Your attitude, disposition, and perspective towards this is what is missing in a lot of people and since you have that, you have won half the battle. The rest is time, education, and experience.

Just some tips from a fellow novice...

1. Reading is great, but when it comes to BDSM, just reading one book isnt enough. There is so many varying perspectives on what this lifestyle is and all the books are more or less written from a different perspective. There is a wealth of knowledge in the books, but all there is much opinion masqueadered as fact. Because of this, trying to "understand" the world of BDSM threw books can be quite confusing. Being able to sort opinion from fact will be invaluable and dont cling too closely to certain perspectives in books because they will be redefined later on as your knowledge base expands.

For example, "Screw the Roses, Give Me the Thorns" is an excellent book when it comes to techinque but it takes a perspective that D/S is all fantasy and games. The views present regarding the dynamic, the concepts of punishment, and what being a dominant is about are disputed by many in 24/7 relationships.

Another example is the "New Topping Book". This is a great book on learning about being a Top in an SM scene with much valuable information, but it is focused solely on SM and SM alone. The small chapter they have on Lifestyle D/S takes the perspective that people in lifestyle relationships are simply living roles. Many, including myself, would disagree.

Given what you have said here today, I would recommend reading "The Master's Manual" by Jack Rinella. The book is written from a male/male relationship, but the concepts, insights, and perspectives apply universally. It is my favorite and I am sure you will find it to be very insightful and enlightening as to learning what it takes to be a Master.

2. As someone once said to me, "There is no great wrong in BDSM groups, but there is no great virtue to them either". When you join a local group and start looking for friends and mentors, finding people who share the same views and attitude as you are going to be hard...trust me. 80% of the people think its all a game and majority of "Doms" you will meet put more focus on their toys then they do on their character, have no real desire in having a slave or submissive in a relationship or doing anything except playing, and talk the talk, but dont walk the walk. Human beings are human beings and dont set your expectations too high that you are going to meet a lot of people who view this with the attitude you have presented. Leather communities might be a better place to look if you are secure enough with your sexuality.



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RE: A newbie asking about learning... - 12/28/2006 3:20:05 PM   
sleazy


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Something that I have not noticed anyone else mention is asking your partner for advice and guidance too. If experienced she will have some pretty good ideas and concepts both about doms in general, but much more importantly right now what she expects/wants/needs from a Dom. Yes there is an element of topping from the bottom in that statement that some may frown upon, but certainly for me it is a two way street, albiet perhaps one with more lanes heading my direction

_____________________________

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