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RE: going too far - 1/9/2007 4:39:33 PM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Greetings DG,


This would depend on the definition of abuse, would it not? I could say that your reply is abusive if I truly felt that. Have you ever dealt with someone that had some bad medicinal reactions? I don't mean an allergy, I mean a slight change in attitude and behavior. I have and this girl would not hurt a fly and would likely die before she became abusive to someone, unless you mix the three meds she was on. She flipped her lid on one occasion and threw a marble ashtray at me, still have the scar on my lip. On one occasion she pulled a knife from the kitchen and came at me. These instances were way out of range for how she normally acted and once the problem was identified, I don't think she has had a re-occurance of them. I am sure she would be stating the same thing you and others have said, but her's is a good example that anyone has the potential to be abusive whether they believe they have that potential or not. I am sure possible mental illnesses could bring about some abusive behavior that a person would not normally exhibit. The way you are stating things, it seems to me that it is highly improbable that you would be abusive but I have found that as far as human behavior goes, nothing is impossible.

Orion



Well, since we've discussed to death the possible definitions of abuse, i tend to see it as something that would cause damage to another, either physically or psychologically.  i could call you a dope and you could call that being abusive.  i'd say that might be insulting, but not abusive and if that were the case, then any cross word spoken to another could be construed as abuse....depending on who happens to think so.  So really, when one on here calls another stupid or says 'f-you', i should come out with a big ABUSE! sign because maybe i consider that abusive behavior......even regardless of  if the receiving person finds it abusive or not.  Now really, is that what we are talking about here?  Or are we having a logical conversation?
 
And i am not talking about people who for some reason, are not in their 'right mind'...such as those with mental illness or those with bad medicinal reactions where they are hardly responsible for their actions.  If that were the case, then i could say that every person here was capable of hacking their little child to death (or do i need to add that if by chance they were mentally ill or had a bad drug reaction?) 
 
So if we really use a practical definition of abuse, i will still stand by my original post.  i am an average, healthy female, not on any medication, don't do drugs, and drink on the occasion.  i don't flip-flop between being out of my mind and being sane....although during PMS, i have been known to call a couple of former partners a-holes....does that count?  But i suppose if they called that abuse, then i could be considered abusive? 
 
So why don't we just add that anyone can be submissive?  Pump a Dom or Domme up with enough drugs and maybe they will lick someone else's feet....or get on their hands and knees and bark like a dog (or whatever).  Or anyone can be dominant?  Afterall, nothing's impossible, right? 
 
Some people can't lie, or steal, or cheat (kinda sounds like my father).....and the list goes on.  But just because an opportunity is there does not mean that it's a choice of whether we do it or not....for some, there are just some things we cannot do (again, when in our 'right minds')....and it's not about choice. 

BTW....it's a good thing Mother Theresa never had any bad medicinal reactions.  i'd really hate to see that abusive side of her   

DG


(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 221
RE: going too far - 1/9/2007 9:28:17 PM   
Solinear


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline
It's almost baffling that I keep reading subs saying "You shouldn't even bother having a safeword" like everyone is the John Stewartesque mind fucking reader that they are.  This is the dumbest advice I could ever imagine someone giving someone else.  Should they have it forever?  No.  Should they use it frequently?  I hope not.  Hell, I think that any Master worth a damn should be able to figure out over time when too far is too far.  That being said, some people act like the universe is ending and you're killing them when they want nothing more than you to double the force, while others make very little sound until things are way beyond what they realistically could normally handle and are waiting for their Master to magically figure it out.

Advising people that they should not have a safeword is horribly irresponsible and dangerous.  I hope you aren't this irresponsible with your children and/or your job.  Just because you've been with your Master for 5+ years and know each-other like you know where the milk is in the refrigerator and/or are psychic and know what someone is capable of doing within a few weeks of meeting them doesn't mean that everyone else is.  Do I trust myself?  Yes, to me being a Dom/Master is about self control and giving the slave what they want, even if it's something that they don't really 'want'.  Also, just because you want the most extreme relationship where, if your Master breaks some of your bones, it's ok, doesn't give you the right to be condescending to people who don't want to do it the same way as you and want to have a safeword, at the very least for emergencies.

If someone is asking questions here, they are obviously not very experienced in this type of lifestyle and are not sure if they should have one.  If you're not sure, I can say 100% that you absolutely should have a safe word (phrase/whatever).  Even if it's a "When I say 'ducks' everything after that is very serious and needs to be taken as such", so you can say "Ducks.  Oh my God, I think you just accidentally broke my jaw" so that they'll know you need medical attention.

The most reassuring thing is that many of the Masters posting here understand that, while some of the subs here think we are mind readers, we really aren't and we'd prefer our slaves to have a safeword, even if they never use it.

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 222
RE: going too far - 1/9/2007 9:53:36 PM   
simplyangelic1


Posts: 186
Joined: 6/14/2006
Status: offline
The problem with safewords are they are only as good as the person that hears them.  I speak from personal experience on this one.  I was playing with someone for the first time.  Things went too far with me and I said my stop safeword more then a dozen times.  The scene never stopped till he decided to quit and then when I was allowed to get up, he tried to start again.  I managed to leave quickly.  I learned a valuable lesson that day.  Not everyone is honorable and safewords are no guarentee that abuse will not happen so chose wisely to begin with.

(in reply to Solinear)
Profile   Post #: 223
RE: going too far - 1/10/2007 12:35:15 AM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Solinear

It's almost baffling that I keep reading subs saying "You shouldn't even bother having a safeword" like everyone is the John Stewartesque mind fucking reader that they are.  This is the dumbest advice I could ever imagine someone giving someone else.  Should they have it forever?  No.  Should they use it frequently?  I hope not.  Hell, I think that any Master worth a damn should be able to figure out over time when too far is too far.  That being said, some people act like the universe is ending and you're killing them when they want nothing more than you to double the force, while others make very little sound until things are way beyond what they realistically could normally handle and are waiting for their Master to magically figure it out.

Advising people that they should not have a safeword is horribly irresponsible and dangerous.  I hope you aren't this irresponsible with your children and/or your job.  Just because you've been with your Master for 5+ years and know each-other like you know where the milk is in the refrigerator and/or are psychic and know what someone is capable of doing within a few weeks of meeting them doesn't mean that everyone else is.  Do I trust myself?  Yes, to me being a Dom/Master is about self control and giving the slave what they want, even if it's something that they don't really 'want'.  Also, just because you want the most extreme relationship where, if your Master breaks some of your bones, it's ok, doesn't give you the right to be condescending to people who don't want to do it the same way as you and want to have a safeword, at the very least for emergencies.

If someone is asking questions here, they are obviously not very experienced in this type of lifestyle and are not sure if they should have one.  If you're not sure, I can say 100% that you absolutely should have a safe word (phrase/whatever).  Even if it's a "When I say 'ducks' everything after that is very serious and needs to be taken as such", so you can say "Ducks.  Oh my God, I think you just accidentally broke my jaw" so that they'll know you need medical attention.

The most reassuring thing is that many of the Masters posting here understand that, while some of the subs here think we are mind readers, we really aren't and we'd prefer our slaves to have a safeword, even if they never use it.



Obviously this is your opinion. I know the subject has been done to death but I am a sub who has never had a safeword, not even for the first time I "played" with my Master. At the time I did not understand why he would not allow one but we discussed it one evening and then I understood. He feels that playing with someone who has a safeword allows him to go in "all guns blazing" as he knows that the sub will stop him with a safeword. With us he prefers to watch my reactions and adjust what he does accordingly. Of course that is the way we are and it does not work for everyone just as your way does not work for .everyone. Suggesting people are dangerous and irresponsible because they do not do things your way is condesending

(in reply to Solinear)
Profile   Post #: 224
RE: going too far - 1/10/2007 2:50:17 AM   
masterElDiablo


Posts: 4
Joined: 9/22/2004
Status: offline
What a complicated subject,
Slave c was my kajira for three years, her consent to situations started and finnished the day she took my collar.
She consented to me doing what ever I liked she was owned the same as my car is owned, I choose when to drive it and how, as I chose when to use her and how we had a form of non-consetual consent, ie she did not consent to a scene but she did consent to be my slave and property.

Now that does seem to put the slave in a very difficult position, however she did have one free choice and that was she knew where the door was, she was free to leave at anytime she never chose that option.

now to the actual question in hand does a slave have a right to protest? that depends on the agreement with the master or mistress involved.

Many times c and I had some intense scenes and we played hard only on one occasion did she ask me to stop, I looked at her blinked and stopped I had never heard her ask me top stop so I knew that something was wrong, as a caring master and one that understood his slave I understood that there was a real problem so we talked.

Communication is the key.

however I would say that calling the cops is out of order unless you are being detained against your will.
A right to stop a scene if you are a sub yes if you are a slave no, (depending on agreements) but you as a human always have the right to express your concerns if the result of expressing those concerns can not be lived with leave the situation.

(I now have a new girl and the same rules apply and c is my girlfriend lol just in case you were wondering what happened to our relationship)

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 225
RE: going too far - 1/10/2007 6:58:41 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
Greetings DG,

I am glad we can agree on the difference between probable, possible and potential.


Orion

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 226
RE: going too far - 1/10/2007 7:19:42 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Greetings DG,

I am glad we can agree on the difference between probable, possible and potential.


Orion


Did we?  LOL
 
DG

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 227
RE: going too far - 1/10/2007 2:52:09 PM   
darkbigdaddy


Posts: 14
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
Comumnication is the answer. Always.

You figure it out within the relationship, if there IS a relationship there. You in theory agreed to give up control. If something happens that you didn't orginal consent to...and he didn't control himself...he is liable but if you call the police, it goes to court, he has a contract (verbal or written) saying you consented to all kinds of sick and twisted stuff...well, its a crap shoot.

Of course, that is a Master/slave relationship. If you are just playing you, and he loses control, police are an option but YOU ARE AN ADULT. Adults communicate, and take responsibility for their actions.

Here is a basic thought if you don't trust the Domme with your wallet or know where she lives maybe you shouldn't let her tie you up with a TENS Machine in the corner, 3 foot black dildo in her hand and a childlike grin.

Sounds funny, but it happens -- usually with male submissives and female Domme but the reverse happens too.

(in reply to MLskajira)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: going too far - 1/10/2007 6:06:54 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
You might want to check the laws of your state. Usually only sporting events and such allow legal physical blows with the signing of a contract. The state often holds your rights of preservation and do not even need you to testify to convict of assault or battery, if they have other eye witnesses.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: darkbigdaddy

Comumnication is the answer. Always.

You figure it out within the relationship, if there IS a relationship there. You in theory agreed to give up control. If something happens that you didn't orginal consent to...and he didn't control himself...he is liable but if you call the police, it goes to court, he has a contract (verbal or written) saying you consented to all kinds of sick and twisted stuff...well, its a crap shoot.

Of course, that is a Master/slave relationship. If you are just playing you, and he loses control, police are an option but YOU ARE AN ADULT. Adults communicate, and take responsibility for their actions.

Here is a basic thought if you don't trust the Domme with your wallet or know where she lives maybe you shouldn't let her tie you up with a TENS Machine in the corner, 3 foot black dildo in her hand and a childlike grin.

Sounds funny, but it happens -- usually with male submissives and female Domme but the reverse happens too.

(in reply to darkbigdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 229
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