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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 12:09:13 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		The difference being.. the D/s'ers realize "The Pet" and"Secretary" are movies.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 12:10:50 PM   
drawntothedark


Posts: 572
Joined: 10/19/2006
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Has anyone read the Sleeping Beauty Triology?


I have I have!!! LOVE It!

I do not base my life on it however. ;)

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Profile   Post #: 162
RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 12:11:55 PM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

First of all, let me congratulate everyone on a (relatively) civil thread in the section where a thread about Goreans is probably most likely to degenerate into a flame-fest.


But it sure didn't take long for some to start a thread that the goreans are being bashed again...





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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 12:14:44 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		That thread isn't about this thread. 

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 12:21:52 PM   
whisperedsighs


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline 		I don't do Gor.  I don't think you neccessarily for you to wrap your head around it.  It is not an essential part of BDSM, Master/slave relationships, D/s or S&M. 

People who do Gor, have taken dime store novels written by Norman, and turned it into a life style 

Gor Does not equal BDSM and BDSM does not equal Gor.

There are many other options out there for very rich and fullfillling BDSM relationships that have nothing to do with Gor. 



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oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

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Profile   Post #: 165
RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 12:22:40 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Something that I've been kicking around the past couple days, is that one of the reasons for the popularity of the Gor books isn't necessarily rooted in the quality or value of those books, but because of the absence of male dominated lifestyle literature (at least, written for men.)  The overwhelming majority of BDSM, D/s, and kink related books, magazines, and a large portion of it's art (at least that I've encountered) tends to have a strong bias towards female domination.  One could say this is driven by the same reason there are few professional male dominants, and few professional male prostitutes (that service only females) - because the numbers of male dominants and female submissives in the lifestyle are relatively balanced, and the number of female dominants and male submissives are severely lopsided.  Toss in the fact that women are far less likely to pay for sex-oriented material, and we end up with a distorted representation of kink in the media industry.

This isn't to say this is the only draw Gor has for those who enjoy it - the emphasis on non-sexual aspects of relationships and philosophy would seem to play an important role, as well.

Something that frustrates me to no end, is how often Gor enthusiasts are bashed by folks who know little or nothing about it.  Only a few decades ago, identical feelings of distrust and fear existed by anyone who wasn't familiar with BDSM.  In the eight pages of replies, here alone, posts by someone who has finished more than one book have been either favorable, or "Not for me, but fine for them."  Those with the greatest disdain seem to have it based on bad chatroom experiences. 

Stephan


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Profile   Post #: 166
RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 12:22:44 PM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

The issue people take is that in Gor, it is assumed that (almost) all women should assume theirn natural position of slaves, and as such, be put into such situations.  Gor, as a lifestyle, is based on the books.

BDSM, as a lifestyle, is not based on movies, nor on any fixed fiction which dictates how a relationship should be had.



Hey benj. ~smiling~

I could be very wrong, but I do not believe that the majority of Goreans think that the majority of women should be kajira. Not all women are suited to it, obviously.

In one-on-one discussions with a couple of knowledgeable Gorean Masters, it seems as though there is an "overpopulation" of kajirae (who, in reality and not in the books, outnumber Gorean Masters), my point being that there are plenty to go around. (Please pardon my simplistic wording.)

Many Goreans were Goreans before they read the books. These Men and women identify as plus-traditional, and through reading the Gor books realized they had a "niche." I think it's something we all strive for, this kind of personal identity, regardless of what one chooses to call himself.

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 12:44:36 PM   
whisperedsighs


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

Greetings,

to dispell some notions, this girls Master does NOT call her a beast. He calls her sweetie.

Master also encourages this girl to finish her Masters degree.

This girl started out as a Domme till she realized her subbie male slave was topping from the bottom and training her to do what He wanted.............so who ran the show still?

Gor made much more sense for this one.

A girl truly shakes her head in amzement at some of the incorrect things she has read today.

She truly is sorry to see so many have had or heard bad experiences

May she wish you well




All right!  I've had enough of  this referring this THIS girl./A girl.. WHO is she and why does she not speak for herself.  Young lady!  I suggest strongly that you seek her out and apologize for speaking on her behalf in her absence!
 
(This is either some sort of slave-speak or a very bad impersonation of Tonto)

and yes, know what it is.. 


It is a mark of a gorean slave to talk that way.... Annoys me to no end...

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oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

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Profile   Post #: 168
RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 12:58:32 PM   
whisperedsighs


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaramelGoddess

How do you feel about Gor?



I fucking hate it.

Someone had to say it.  I don't actually, but it seemed like the wrong thing to say, and I was right here.

Yours,


benji


short and to the point.... gotta love benji!!!

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oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 1:11:23 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		But I don't actually hate it....  I said as much in my post.

Yours,


benji

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 1:30:51 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Hello
 
okay...first as everyone I hope is not in shock I did not use the "T" word.  Oh, and yes it is an actual word used in street slang by Mexican-American...it is part of a greeting that means something close to "What's Happening".  I use the greeting not in mocking but out of politeness.  I have read the Anne Rice Sleeping Beauty stories as well.
 
Now I just finished a review of the "The Beast of Gor", here is what I found.  The word "slut" was used 3 times to refer to female slaves, "beast" once to describe a female slave because of her due duties, labor.  One male slave was directly called "Beast".  She-sleen was used but that was in referrence to a mythical race of shapeshifter, they could turn into humans or animals.  Kurii referred to a Race of large biped creatures who are the enemies of the Priest Kings.  Let's remember these books were written in the 60's for the most part.  Words like slut, whore, etc if used on a large scale would have gotten them baned.
 
I wish you well
 
Nosathro

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

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Profile   Post #: 171
RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 1:34:33 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Actually, "Que tal" is a slang expression, similar to "What's up?" or "How's it goin?"

Stephan


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Men: Find a Woman here

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Profile   Post #: 172
RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 1:54:00 PM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		The number of times it is done is not the point of this segment of the arguement.  This particular segment stems from the fact that women in the gorean novels are referred to as beasts, sluts, etc.  The fact that one of the slave positions is named after a beast is an indirect reference to slave women being less than human.  You stated:
quote:

FYI.  If you read the books, no female slave was referred to as a "Beast".  The only word I do recall use to discribe a female slave is "Wench" a Middle English word..meaning "woman".  However, a male slave, owned by a Free Woman was named "Bosk" the Gorean word for "Cow" by the Free Woman. 

which clearly states that you think that no where in any of the books (I did note that you only went through one of the 25 or 26 books) are women referred to in any kind of less than human way.  You are wrong.  There are other references in other books, but as I got rid of all of my copies of them years ago, I can't tell you where.

The books in general place slaves as lower than human - male and female slaves.  Male slaves are treated as being even lower than female slaves - I've never denied this, however, you were trying to claim that only free women in the books called slaves of the opposite gender anything that could be construed as derogatory, which I knew wasn't true. 

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Profile   Post #: 173
RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 4:47:10 PM   
nikaa


Posts: 357
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline 		AquaticSub,

Goreans do NOT go around forcing people into slavery. Kajira conscent, often times beg the collars they wear just as they can beg release from their owners if they wish it or simply walk away. No one forces them to stay if they desire to leave.

KaramelGoddess,

IB is short for Iron Bear along time poster who is a Gorean man but respected on both sides of this fence(Gor vs.BDSM) by many.

SweetDommes,

Goreans are NOT the only ones to hold the thought that a slave is nothing more than property and that the owner of said slave can do as he wishes with her. I know many slaves within M/s relationships that follow this line of thinking and just as many if not more Dom/mes , Masters, or Mistresses that do.

However, I beleive you are taking one part of the relatoinship between Gorean men and their property and focusing soley on that aspect because it suites your purposes.

Kajira where also prized in the books. Men fought wars over kajira. They cherished them. They showed their love by holding them in perfect Mastery, infact it is said that many men did in fact love their slaves and vice versa.



< Message edited by nikaa -- 1/3/2007 5:04:32 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 174
RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 5:07:13 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		Question please?
To the OP.. were you asking about feelings towards the books or to the *for lack of a better word* culture that has sprung up around the books? I see those as 2 seperate things.
No one can control how the books were written but they can control how they incorporate the ideas and live them out.

*stamped IMO*

(in reply to nikaa)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 5:22:39 PM   
KaramelGoddess


Posts: 404
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline 		cjenny:
I was referring to the *culture* as you say, that has sprung up around the books.  I knew the books existed, as I'd always been told to go read them, but what had me perplexed was that they could inspire such a *culture*.
My mistake was commenting on it on the Gorean boards - and I freely admit that it was a mistake -.  Which is why I brought it here, where I thought the Ladies of the House would share their feelings.
 
~Kara

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RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 5:30:20 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nikaa

AquaticSub,

Goreans do NOT go around forcing people into slavery. Kajira conscent, often times beg the collars they wear just as they can beg release from their owners if they wish it or simply walk away. No one forces them to stay if they desire to leave.



I realize that. But the books Gor is based on allow for a woman to be ripped from a happy life and placed into a slavery without her care or consent. I will never be able to rest easy about that.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

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(in reply to nikaa)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 5:34:16 PM   
cjenny


Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		Thankyou KaramelGoddess.

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Profile   Post #: 178
RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 5:37:46 PM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nikaa

SweetDommes,

Goreans are NOT the only ones to hold the thought that a slave is nothing more than property and that the owner of said slave can do as he wishes with her. I know many slaves within M/s relationships that follow this line of thinking and just as many if not more Dom/mes , Masters, or Mistresses that do.

However, I beleive you are taking one part of the relatoinship between Gorean men and their property and focusing soley on that aspect because it suites your purposes.

Kajira where also prized in the books. Men fought wars over kajira. They cherished them. They showed their love by holding them in perfect Mastery, infact it is said that many men did in fact love their slaves and vice versa.


Actually, I believe that if you go through ALL of my posts in this thread, you will find that I specified a number of reasons why I dislike gor.  What the last couple of posts focused on is the fact that a Gorean claimed that something has never been said in the books, and he was wrong.  I have read some (the first 9, I believe) of the books, and while I don't have a perfect memory, I'm absolutely certain that female slaves were referred to as beasts and other things besides "wench" - I am  not the one who originally brought it up, but I did have issues with someone claiming that mr. lange had never put such into writing when I knew I had read it. 

I am very well aware of the fact that other D/s varieties put the sub/slave as less than human (and I greatly dislike them as well, for the record - I have no need for a worm unless I'm going fishing).  I wasn't originally focussing on that aspect of gor - I did focus on it, but that isn't even close to the only reason that I dislike gor.  It has nothing to do with "suit[ing my] purpose"

(in reply to nikaa)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: How do you feel about Gor? - 1/3/2007 5:40:18 PM   
BDSM05478


Posts: 417
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Has anyone read the Sleeping Beauty Triology?


I have and I wasn't impressed. It was about as good as Stan Rices poetry, which isn't saying much.

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(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 180
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