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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 11:56:07 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Well it seems as though most politicians I can think of do the same as you describe. They think we are all dumb so they lower their speeches to our so-called "level". I cannot think of very many who do not do this.


Now this we agree on!  But I always felt that with her, it's not that she thinks we are dumb - it's that she herself is dumb.  My opinion only, of course. 

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 11:56:41 AM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		You have apparently forgotten some of the history you lived through. No, the current administration has not handled themselves responsibly and yes, they need a fucking babysitter. I don't know crap about Pelosi, but I do know that she is in fact in a powerful position (which you fail to recognize) and is allowed (no it's not gender specific..sorry) to inact and enforce anything she can to present checks and balances into the system, as should have already been done anyway. If you will recall, one of the primary supporters of the Viet Nam War (or conflict for those politically correct folks) was Robert McNamara. I personally see many parallels between these two confrontations; no clear cut goal and because of this, no-one knows what the hell they are doing. Regarding his (McNamara's) 1995 book entitled "Retrospect" he cited several "issues" with his reasoning behind the VN war. Some that apply here would be;
We misjudged then -- and we have since -- the geopolitical intentions of our adversaries . . . and we exaggerated the dangers to the United States of their actions.
   We failed to draw Congress and the American people into a full and frank discussion and debate of the pros and cons of a large-scale military involvement . . . before we initiated the action.
After the action got under way and unanticipated events forced us off our planned course . . . we did not fully explain what was happening and why we were doing what we did.
We did not recognize that neither our people nor our leaders are omniscient. Our judgment of what is in another people's or country's best interest should be put to the test of open discussion in international forums. We do not have the God-given right to shape every nation in our image or as we choose.
  Our judgments of friend and foe alike reflected our profound ignorance of the history, culture, and politics of the people in the area, and the personalities and habits of their leaders.
 
In other words....History is repeating itself and someone has to have the balls, or in this case pussy, to step up to the plate and do what is in their power to do. Certainly I agree that if there is a clear cut threat, I will be right up there taking arms against the enemy....but this whole war has gotten out of hand and there is no end in sight, since no-one (that includes the current administration) has a clue what would constitute a victory. If Pelosi can have an influence on this, I say more power to her. You call her names, fine, I have a few for the executive branch of my Gov't as well but I don't show ignorance posting them.
 
By the way, at the conclusion of the interview about his book and his comment about current affairs, McNamara, apparently much wiser these days, commented about the Iraq war;
"We're misusing our influence. It's just wrong what we're doing. It's morally wrong, it's politically wrong, it's economically wrong."

[Mod Note:  quoted flame and reply removed]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 1/6/2007 1:00:06 PM >

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(in reply to Michaelat92544)
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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 11:56:48 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		There are many moderate Republicans that ran from Bush during the last election cycle, some of them are putting their finger up to the wind and they see which direction it is blowing. I have not head a "Sheehan Plan", does she have a website with a detailed plan on it? Perhaps I will google that term and see what I find

On Edit:

I looked and there was no plan I could find, but I am assuming that you mean complete withdrawl of our troops ASAP. I will paraphrase Kerry from his Vietnam days (even though I do not think much of him anymore), "Who will  ask someone to be the last soldier to die in Iraq?"

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/6/2007 12:03:12 PM >

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(in reply to WyrdRich)
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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 12:07:30 PM   
WyrdRich


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I have not head a "Sheehan Plan", does she have a website with a detailed plan on it? Perhaps I will google that term and see what I find.


    "De-escalate, Investigate, Troops home now!"

    She and a few of the misguided, but minor, percentage of Americans who think this is a good idea were shouting it during some poor Dem's press conference.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 12:13:21 PM   
juliaoceania


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http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

It seems to me that your thinking that the majority do not agree with Ms Sheehan is incorrect

If you add the numbers together from this CNN poll 54% of the American people want to leave Iraq within the next year, 21% of the American people favor immediate withdrawl. I would not call that a "fringe" element.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/6/2007 12:15:14 PM >

_____________________________

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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 1:47:13 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Watch the GOP spin. They didn't get soundly defeated acros the entire country losing virtually every contested race and open seat. They won majorities in those districts in which they won.

Pathetic

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 2:05:20 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Bush can't or more likely "won't" secure our border with Mexico and enforce our immigration laws.
You bet the People were and are pissed at the Republicans!

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 2:50:02 PM   
asubmissiveheart


Posts: 462
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline 		The Republicans had years to make this move. What took them 3 years to figure this out?

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 4:52:19 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

I can't help but wonder why Bush waited until Congress and the House were both controlled by the Democrats, before seeking to escalate the number of troops in Iraq.


The political strategists for the Republican party probably realized long before the election that any escalation would result in political suicide for their party.

Not that they were able to save their party in any event, but it would have gone much worse for them had they done so.

Im still wondering why Monkeyboy didnt ask Congress to remove the constitutional amendment mandating term limits for the President, as well as removing the amendment requiring the president be born in the United States.
The Governator was hinting shortly after taking over California that this should be done away with.

They waited too long...

Sinergy

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(in reply to subfever)
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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 4:54:55 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

Kazakhstan.  Uzbekistan.  Same thing.



Dont forget Dumbfuckistan.

Sinergy

p.s. If it were up to me, Monkeyboy would be doing time in the Big House.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 4:58:00 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		He is.  Be careful what you wish for.

Yours,


benji

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(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 4:58:45 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michaelat92544

It is not pelosi's job to undermine US foreign policy. It is not pelosi's job to undermine American troops serving. Those are the executive deparytment's duties. It's her job to preside over the House. Nothing more.


Monkeyboy has done an excellent job undermining US foreign policy.

All Pelosi has said is that Congress is not planning to pay for any more of his criminal shenanigans out in the desert.

He can do whatever he wants, he is, after all the President.  Congress cannot actually prevent him from calling up more troops, provided he swipes his VISA card first.

What goes around, comes around.  Monkeyboy is discovering how fun it is to be President and try to make things happen when everything you do is opposed by the opposite party who controls Congress.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Michaelat92544)
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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 5:22:21 PM   
sharainks


Posts: 499
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Status: offline 		Thank you I totally agree.  I've had enough of his deer in the headlights look when asked a question he hasn't been prepped for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

If it were up to me, Bush would be a meter maid.

We all have to live with our disappointments

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 5:28:17 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
Im still wondering why Monkeyboy didnt ask Congress to remove the constitutional amendment mandating term limits for the President, as well as removing the amendment requiring the president be born in the United States.
Sinergy


LMAO That was sooooo on target!


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(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 7:11:52 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:


Im still wondering why Monkeyboy didnt ask Congress to remove the constitutional amendment mandating term limits for the President, as well as removing the amendment requiring the president be born in the United States.
The Governator was hinting shortly after taking over California that this should be done away with.

You know, I think I’d vote for Arnold just because it would be such a hoot (if we are going to go down, we might as well go down laughing). Can you imagine the State of the Union address in that Arnold voice...

"My fellow Americans – you all a bunch of girle men."

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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 8:08:20 PM   
WyrdRich


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

It seems to me that your thinking that the majority do not agree with Ms Sheehan is incorrect

If you add the numbers together from this CNN poll 54% of the American people want to leave Iraq within the next year, 21% of the American people favor immediate withdrawl. I would not call that a "fringe" element.


     Actually, I have no problem at all stating that as many as 21% of Americans polled are complete fucking idiots.  I would include myself in the number that would like to see a withdrawal within a year but not if it means allowing the Islamic crazy people to claim victory. 

      Getting back to the subject of ignoring facts that don't support your opinions, 82% don't think the Dems have any sort of clear plan.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 9:37:20 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		You did not read the figures right

21% favor immediate withdrawl of all troops
33% favor withdrawl over the next year with all the troops out by Dec 31st 2007
this adds up to 54% of Americans favor leaving on Cindy Sheehan's Plan you mentioned

quote:

"De-escalate, Investigate, Troops home now!"


To me de-escalate means bringing them home on a schedule, not bringing them home tomorrow.

And btw, I have not heard a democratic plan for anything as they have been waiting for Bush to come forward and do his job of presenting a plan that they can agreee with or not.

Here is the deal with right wingers, they tend to say "The Democrats  have no plan", but the second one is proposed they say "How dare you for trying to do Bush's job for him"... really weird.

I can tell you another thing, bringing them home is a lot better than throwing good blood down an endless sand trap.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/6/2007 9:38:14 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to WyrdRich)
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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 10:32:33 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		People I know that are actually there, think bringing the troop levels up to a level where we can control the border with Iran, will drastically cut casualties. I don't know if that's true, but do tend to believe an opinion of an officer serving in Iraq, over politically motivated people on a message board.
 
We're not leaving Iraq. We shouldn't even be in Iraq, but that doesn't change the reality, that we wont be leaving any time soon. We would only leave if it's in our interest to leave ... the South Vietnam scenario, and will stay if it's in our interest to stay ... virtually every other scenario.
 
I'm not presenting the wisdom of this ... only the reality.
 
Even if we draw down, we will leave enough there to suffer some tragic event, such that the American people will be screaming to go back ... deny us what you will, but we are a fickle people.
 
Speaker Pelosi, like her or not, doesn't have enough power to fully push her agenda. A large portion of her party, is not in the same camp on this issue. That was clear, with the defeat of Jack Murtha. She will talk tough, because it's in her best interest to do so, but will not move past talk, because she doesn't have the backing to do more than talk.
 
The same now applies to President Bush. There was a time where his actions spoke louder than his words (unfortunate as that was), but those times have past. He will make sound bites and have a lot to say, but lacks the political backing to do much more. The one exception this this, is Iraq, where he can still do very much as he wishes, and will undoubtedly do so. Democrats will be powerless to do anything about it ... as much as they would wish to think otherwise.
 
Get used to being in Iraq. Most of us will be dead, and we will still be there in some form.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/6/2007 10:57:08 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

People I know that are actually there, think bringing the troop levels up to a level where we can control the border with Iran, will drastically cut casualties. I don't know if that's true, but do tend to believe an opinion of an officer serving in Iraq, over politically motivated people on a message board. 
 

 
I hope you do not misunderstand me and think that this is posted with animosity, but I am less politically motivated than you are, I am nonpartisan, and vote far left of the democrats and for either Green or Libertarian in most races last election.

So, as for political motivation, I have none. I DO have humanitarian motivations, we are not making things better over there. As far as the military, the leadership is kind of divided on the issue of troops being redeployed out of Iraq, and staying the course.

I respect that your bias is based upon a handful of family members that you know personally, but describing people here as politically motivated, when the military itself is very politically motivated, is pot - kettle - black if you ask me.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted - 1/7/2007 5:37:11 AM   
UtopianRanger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

And so it begins.
 
 
quote:

01-05) 11:28 PST Washington -- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had a blunt message today for President Bush -- it's time for him to realize his policy on the Iraq war is "over.''

With Bush widely reported to announce a "surge'' next week of about 20,000 troops to help secure Baghdad for the embattled Iraqi government, the anti-war speaker warned the president that "a surge is an escalation of the war'' that will get a cold reception in the new Democratic-led House
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/01/05/BAGIDNDL1N4.
DTL 





Is Bush foolish enough to think that 20-30k more soldiers is going wipe-out Al Sadr and Mahdi Army with 3 -5 million worth of potential followers?

Up till now, the insurgents responsible for most of the attacks on the coalition forces have mostly been made-up of a Sunni / Baathist minority... an escalation that targets Al Sadr will surely create a larger and more vengeful insurgent force.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lind/lind111.html


As MacArthur once said ''Reciprocity always comes back to haunt you''



 - R


< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 1/7/2007 5:38:49 AM >

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-General George S. Patton


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 60
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