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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 1/30/2007 2:41:46 PM

LaTigresse

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Spanky, to be honest I don't get it either. Even the thought of deliberately slicing open my arm gives me the heebie jeebies. BUT, just because I don't get it and cannot imagine doing it, does not make it something to redicule or lessen.

Everyone has different coping skills, we can argue all day and night over what is the best, right, wrong, and on and on and on. We can also argue over the degrees to which someone's life really truely sucks. But, is that really necessary? I don't think so. Crappy things happened to me in my life that I don't think really had much of an effect on me, if something similar happened to someone else it may be devastating. The flip side of that is that I know people that have suffered things in their lives I simply cannot imagine and are relatively happy human beings.

Personally I think that just like we all physically look different and have unique personalities, we also have different and unique abilities to cope with the crap life throws at us. It is not our place to pass judgement. If you don't like it, don't want to know about it, then move along and pretend it doesn't exist.

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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 1/30/2007 2:43:23 PM

lilsubl

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very very well said, LaT...thank you....

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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 1/30/2007 2:47:49 PM

TreSwank

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Okay, okay. I'm gonna give you that much. Maybe we all can't react to life's obstacles with steady stoicism, punctuated by pangs of feeling on occasion. I, at least, would like these girls to know that there is almost always an alternative, no matter how much you think it won't stop hurting until you stop feeling. Cutting yourself up over life's fuck ups just ain't cool.

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 1/30/2007 2:49:22 PM >

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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 1/30/2007 5:28:05 PM

petdave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreSwank
It just seems like every "cutter" that I meet happens to be one of those girls - you know- the ones that write horrible, maudlin poetry and show it to their friends, who, in an attempt to suppress the ol' gag reflex, end up telling them how much "talent" they possesses. Yep............I'll bet those same girls also hope and pray that someone "accidently" views the cutting scars, so they can be the darling of the proverbial "attention" spotlight, and get misdiagnosed with some "chemical imbalance."

Gee, what a surprise that you think the people that announce their cutting to you are just doing it for attention. Hmm, i wonder if there may be some kind of connection?

Dude, i don't know where you got your degree in Abnormal Psych from, but you might want to email them and ask for a refund.
There are a lot of people out there wearing scars that you haven't seen, and while you might be able to one-up their reasons for doing it, that and a buck will buy you a bottle of water. Okay, everyone who is feeling depressed can submit their list of problems to an international tribunal, and only the top 1% can commit suicide, the top 3% can self-mutilate, the top 5% can seek solace in recreational drugs, and everybody else has to STFU or be judged "uncool". Sound good? Very scientific, it'll work flawlessly.

With that out of the way...

i think there is a lot of crossover between masochists and cutters. Seems only natural. The release and relief that comes with cutting becomes positive reinforcement for physical pain, and to receive it from another becomes an intimate act.

i found that self-injury was the only way to really clear my head, and did it from grade school through college. i stopped for my wife (then girlfriend) because it upset her, but it can be very difficult not to relapse, especially when it's been a long time between scenes. A good pain scene definitely achieves the same, if not better results (although sometimes more scars).

...dave

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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 1/30/2007 6:23:27 PM

TreSwank

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You know what? On second thought, maybe you guys are right.

I'm going to sleep on this one, and see if I can muster up any thread of understanding on this subject.

< Message edited by TreSwank -- 1/30/2007 6:49:58 PM >

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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 1/30/2007 7:16:09 PM

junecleaver

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I have often thought of the correlation between self-injury and BDSM. I know masochists who were once self-injurers. I have seen their BDSM relationships give them tools they needed to get over SI. I am pretty sure that for me SI and BDSM are somehow related, but it is something I'm still sorting out.

I used to burn myself as a pre-teen/young adolescent. My family doesn't know. My friends don't know. I would never under any circumstances share this information, except on a channel as impersonal as the internet. It was never about the attention. It was about the control. It was about having a secret. It was about punishing myself and pushing myself. I didn't allow myself other outlets. When I finally opened up to healthier ways of expressing myself, the problem disappeared for me. If I stop using these healthy coping mechanisms, then I would guess the urge to SI would reappear.

I don't advertise myself as a masochist. I haven't taken on that label. My Dominant knows I am not a masochist. However, he is very much a sadist. I knew all of this getting into the relationship. When we play, there is more often than not pain involved. Even though I don't consider myself a masochist, I get that same high that SI used to give me. The burning never felt good. I never processed it as pleasure, but it did give me this incredible flying feeling. I get that same flying feeling during and after our scenes involving pain.

I don't want the pain. At this point, I'm not even sure I want the flying feeling because it scares the shit out of me. It makes me requestion if what I'm doing is healthy or not. Is there a huge difference between burning myself and letting him burn me? I conditioned myself to think that hurting myself was not a healthy way to express or vent my feelings. Is going into a scene I know will involve pain, knowing it will relieve me the same way SI once did, not very similar?

I now have some important issues to discuss with my Dom. Thanks for making me think.

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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 1/30/2007 10:03:50 PM

SorrowsFruit

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It seems to me that the issue being discussed is "coping mechanisms". No matter how hard your life has been OR how blessed...we all have difficulties/stress that we face and we each deal with them in a way that seems "right" for ourselves. For some that is cutting, for some it is drinking, drugs, sex, shopping, exercising...the list is as varied as there are people. Some people seek attention as a way of coping, perhaps by pantomiming the mental illness du jour...but there are plenty people out there seeking attention through sex, drugs, exercising, etc, also.

The way I see it, attention seeking is another, separate, means of coping and not at all related to the OP. IMHO, what I believe mixielicous is asking is...is it possible that cutting could be an indicator of a predisposition towards bdsm? Could it be part and parcel of the same thing? Perhaps it is a stepping stone? Our first awarness that for us the ability to control the pain our bodies experience is a way to cope with the pain that we can not? These are interesting questions and it would be interesting to hear from others on the site. I hope that others do reply so that we could get an idea of percentages. I don't know how many will...if they think they will be labeled an adolescent attention seeker, tho. There probably wouldn't be many on this site at all if there wasn't some acceptance and tolerance...in fact, it could easily be said by people who aren't into bdsm that any/all of us on this site are just "seeking attention" or trying to establish our "unique-ness".

Now, I am brand new here(this is my very first post :) so feel free to tell me I don't know what the h*ll I'm talking about...but, I did want to thank mixielicous for bravely broaching the topic. I'm not saying that a pain-induced endorphin rush is the "right" way to cope, I'm just saying that it's no more "wrong" than a lot of the other options...and if anybody is going to relate to that, you would think it would be the folks here on this site.

Thanks for letting me share my opinion,

apple

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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 1/31/2007 12:50:14 AM

violet7

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i think this is a fascinating topic. i think the relationship between bdsm and cutting, or many other mental illnesses, is fascinating, and as most things are, complicated. why are some cutters drawn to bdsm, and others not? or, as it has been questioned in this thread, why do some ppl w/ shitty lives resort to cutting, and others don't. for me i know there is a huge connection between cutting and other past issues, and my draw to bdsm. i certainly haven't figured it all out, and perhaps i never will. i think a thread like this a great opportunity to explore the idea though.
i truly admire those of you who have put yourself out there, at the risk of misunderstand and redicule based on ignorance, and then fought against the blatent dismissal and insults that have been present in this thread.

Tre--i noticed you put chemical imbalance in quotes, but then later referred to "REAL mental illness"...what exactly do you think real mental illness is, if not chemical imbalances? and...if i do have treacher-collins syndrome, does that mean cutting for me is acceptable?

everybody suffers and has issues and problems in their life. and there will always be ppl who have bigger, seemingly worse or harder circumstances than you, that doesn't make your pain/problems any less valid, or any easier to deal with.

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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 1/31/2007 7:33:54 AM

damia

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i haven't read all of this thread, but figured my reply would still be on topic.

i have self-injured since i was very young (i think the first time was when i was nine or ten). i scar easily, so my arms and legs have many scars on them. However, i always wore pants from a young age to hide cuts and scratches and such, and wore long sleeves (usually my leather jacket) except in the hottest of weather when i couldn't stand it anymore, to cover them all. When someone asked about it, i'd give an excuse. For example, i had a cut on my upper arm that i said was a scrape from a locker, which was plausible because the corners of the locker doors had rough metal that the stupid school never took care of.

Anyway...nobody even knew for certain that i SI'd until around 14 or so...not sure exact age or whatever. i didn't know they knew until many years later, my sister said she knew. But they didn't bring too much attention to it, and i wanted it that way. my former Master knew because honesty is important to me, and i had to explain the scars and a new injury. my current Master knew that i had self-injured in the past and that i was trying not to, and when he saw a new injury, there and then forbid me to do it again or be punished severely. This has worked for me so far, because i really don't want to disappoint my Master, and i really do want to stop. Since the time He forbid it, i have not self-injured again; it has been a few months. But my submission to Him and the pain He rewards me with (definitely different from punishments...those i don't want, and haven't received yet). i think the pleasurable pain He gives me helps me not to SI, as well as the forbidding it. Not saying it works for all, but it has for me.

Never was self-injury attention-seeking for me. It took me a lot of courage to tell my Master what i did, and very few people know besides Him, only close friends and my family (though i wish they didn't know). Some self-injurers are indeed trying to get attention for a bigger problem, but it's not usually -just- about getting attention. *shrug*

damia the Kat

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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 1/31/2007 8:17:05 AM

mixielicous

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quote:

ORIGINAL: justanotheclaire

hmm yes why didnt i think of that i could knit my way to happiness ........... or i could eat my way to happiness shit i already did that

LOL

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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 1/31/2007 8:26:07 AM

mixielicous

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SorrowsFruit

IMHO, what I believe mixielicous is asking is...is it possible that cutting could be an indicator of a predisposition towards bdsm? Could it be part and parcel of the same thing? Perhaps it is a stepping stone? Our first awarness that for us the ability to control the pain our bodies experience is a way to cope with the pain that we can not? These are interesting questions and it would be interesting to hear from others on the site. I hope that others do reply so that we could get an idea of percentages. I don't know how many will...if they think they will be labeled an adolescent attention seeker, tho.

oh the eloquence i wish i posessed!

yes, you pretty hit the nail on the head as far as connections i am looking to explore.

cutting came for me within the same year i first experimented with s&m and i find the connection hard to deny, personally.

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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 1/31/2007 8:31:00 AM

mixielicous

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreSwank

I, at least, would like these girls to know that there is almost always an alternative, no matter how much you think it won't stop hurting until you stop feeling. Cutting yourself up over life's fuck ups just ain't cool.

oh! there is!!! like your drinking, social or NOT, why do we drink? hard day, usually - at least MOST of the time. i know i dont have a beer to get that sick feeling, i have a beer to feel less

and more

- like most people. you have a coping method too - its just different.

and i did find a substitute for cutting, its called THC - another connection i didnt see until a few years ago [that i had stopped regularly cutting when i started to regularly smoking]

point is, wether its a socially acceptable coping skill or not, the fact that they do it does not deserve to be trivialized.

it is an insult to yourself, more than anyone.

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RE: using pain to ease pain --- & cutters - 2/1/2007 11:55:37 AM

behindmirrors

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(fast reply)

Well, I must say, this is enlightening. Good to know I am a former attention-seeking, shallow, self-absorbed princess who can't handle life. Personally, that just doesn't jive with me.

Here's what I know: I was a self-injurer for 12 years. That's part of my history- and so is the roadmap of scars that I wear. I guess they show as reminders for where I've been. It goes along with a lot of other things in my life- but airing my dirty laundry about my past and sharing my baggage that I long ago left behind doesn't really suit me any better than the definition provided above.

I didn't seek attention for these things- I did them to and for myself. It was control. Mine. Not to be shared. In fact, I often didn't even seek medical attention until I was trying to stop, even for when I did cut a bit too deep and needed stitches. I just dealt with my own issues for a long time- because who else would be better qualified to change my life and my problems but myself? In the end, after trying therapy, I did. I took care of my own life and my own issues, and it worked for me. Not everyone can do this, but it does happen.

Personally, I don't write much angsty poetry, and never really did. I can give you visceral, sure, but not angst. I'm not the "woe is me, life is pain" type. In fact, I'm a full and well-rounded human being that has been through some really difficult things but came out pretty well. I'm happy. It's not that I think what happened is trivial, or that I was once all shades of screwed up and I got older and gained perspective so I stopped. It's that I learned it was not serving me to cut anymore- or any number of negative behaviors I used to cope before.

I think that a lot of the negative things that have been said are, however, ways for the people posting them to feel better about their own self. A coping mechanism. Now, how is that different? I used to cut because I needed to cope with the feelings that I was not adequate, was guilty, worthless, and struggling. People often look at people like the person I was and say- "Well, at least I'm better than them, the freak." It's their way of coping with their own feelings of not measuring up to whatever ideal. It's got a very similar root.

I know that many people have had harder lives than mine has been. That doesn't negate what my life has been, though. It just gives a different picture of what life can be like, ways in which people can suffer. I don't have a physical deformity that diminishes my ability to live the way I do now, I don't have many issues that are out there. I guess we're all just a bit different, and we all have to live our own lives and deal with what we have or do not have.

Now, do I think this has anything to do with me being involved in BDSM? No. I don't. It wasn't until I was well past these things that I started on this journey- it was never a subsititute for me, because I never needed one. It was never relenquishing control to someone else to stop these things for me. I'm not saying that either of these things are bad or weak- I'm just saying that it was not my way of handling things or getting into this lifestyle for me. To each, their own.

I know there's not really anything I can say to change some minds- but I do know that unless you are me, and you have lived my life as me, you have no right to judge me for the way I've lived it. Say what you will, and do what you will- it's not my place to stop you. Basically, what I'm getting at here is this: we can all think of terrible things that are worse than what we have felt. But what purpose does that really serve? Are we really going to feel better, or instantly have all the tools needed to stop? No. It doesn't work that way. Give all the perspective you want. The rest of us will just go on and do what it is that we need to for ourselves, be it good or bad. There is no matter of agree or disagree here- it's a matter of personal choices and what life brings each individual.

Just my words on the matter- and my opinions.
behindmirrors.

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