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RE: Jihad Jane??? - 1/31/2007 6:38:43 PM

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quote:

Was it not Jan Fonda about whom I read on these boards that she betrayed a lot of US soldiers when she visited a prisoner of war concentration camp of the vietcong? Or am I mistaken?

During a 1972 trip to North Vietnam, Jane Fonda propagandized on behalf of the North Vietnamese government, declared that American POWs were being treated humanely and condemned U.S. soldiers as "war criminals" and later denounced them as liars for claiming they had been tortured.

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

Yeah.... she is a great spokeswoman.

~poe

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(in reply to Rule)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 1/31/2007 7:08:07 PM

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Isn't the questing STILL, "Why did Diem REFUSE to obey the UN, and participate in National Elections?"

Since the Government of South Vietnam *was* possibly unlawful under international law, the U.S. could be considered War Criminals.

Remember, if you BEGIN in Evil or Stupidity, you will END in Evil or Stupidity.

And the Ends NEVER Justify the Means.

That said, When Jane Fonda shows up, you got hella PR and organization issues.

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Jihad Jane??? - 1/31/2007 8:04:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

   Once again, I'll refer you to the 1972 Election and mention events like the Hard Hat Riots.

   Being unhappy with the actions this country has taken in Iraq is one thing, empowering a bunch of kooks is another.

So what you are saying is there is 0 difference between the anti-war movement in 1972 and the anti-war movement in 2006. Seems a bit like living in the past and not evolving to deal with changes in extant reality, but if it works for you, I say go with it.

Sinergy

    Lots and lots of differences, Sinergy. The movement during Vietnam was part of a much larger social upheaval AND had the self-interest factor going for it, ie, a draft.

    A bunch of flag-burning, America hating punks pissing off the great middle? Oh you betcha they line up nicely.

Whatever you believe, WyrdRich.

A lot of people who opposed the war in Vietnam were not draft age or even affected the the draft.

What Vietnam did was prove unilaterally to the American people that the image of the US riding in on our white stallion and defeating Evil was an incorrect ideal.

Which had far reaching impacts on our nation, whether or not you choose to agree.

Sinergy

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(in reply to WyrdRich)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 1/31/2007 8:18:49 PM

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We can certainly agree that the impact of the 60's left a long-term mark (I even marched a couple times when Mom couldn't get a sitter). It also set a standard that the present anti-war bundle can't come close to.

Bringing Fonda in makes it even less likely that people like me are going to be volunteering our time and pick-up trucks to get the stage set up.

(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 1/31/2007 9:14:29 PM

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quote:

A lot of people who opposed the war in Vietnam were not draft age or even affected the the draft.

My parents were Vietnam War protestors. They had 4 kids, my father was born with a heart condition and could not be drafted either way, but toward the end of the war they were so thoroughly engaged against it that by the time we moved in 1972 they were tapping our phone and opening my mom's personal correspondence. You see, my uncle was on his second tour of duty there, as a volunteer, but the tone of his letters changed drastically the second tour. This spurred my mom and dad to do what they did.

People can try to marginalize those of us that hate war and imagine peace... but the thing is... I am convinced that peace starts with ME, not with others, "Let there be peace on Earth and let it begin with me". Now that is harder to live and model than it sounds... but I do try...

And yes Rich, this means I am taking the high ground these days, and not resisting as much, but embracing my own vision. My vision is one in which our people come home from Iraq and our government lets people live the way they choose even if they have the oil that we want. Anything less is just immoral.

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(in reply to Sinergy)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 1/31/2007 9:22:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
My vision is one in which our people come home from Iraq and our government lets people live the way they choose even if they have the oil that we want. Anything less is just immoral.

An interesting and noble stance Julia. I would be tempted however to argue that the government of the US should worry more about how US citizens want to live, than the citizens of another land. Unfortunately that means that should US citizens wish to lash out after an attack, or continue the supremacy of the dollar in the world oil market then that must be that governments priority. Kudos to you for standing tall and saying it is not what you want.

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(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 1/31/2007 10:56:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy

An interesting and noble stance Julia. I would be tempted however to argue that the government of the US should worry more about how US citizens want to live, than the citizens of another land. Unfortunately that means that should US citizens wish to lash out after an attack, or continue the supremacy of the dollar in the world oil market then that must be that governments priority. Kudos to you for standing tall and saying it is not what you want.

You mean keep the status quo? Since the status quo is an unteniable position in the long run, it wouldn't be such a smart move because it would lead to yet more wars. Unless Americans want a 1984 scenario of constant war.

The problem with the Bush administration is its lack of vision, with US resources and sicience and engineering base it could be building a new vision of the world that the world would follow, rather than being seen as a bully and exploiting other countrie's resources.

Bish is myopic and a political pygmy. He turned a country that was generally admired into one that is increasingly hated or at least best to avoid.

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RE: Jihad Jane??? - 1/31/2007 11:17:02 PM

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This has shit to do with the actual Vietnam war or war protesters in general and I dont like how it seems this thread is trying to deflect towards that. It has to do with one very fucked up individual who put her head so far up her ass that she has to see though her neck.

Where in the name of peace do you voluntarily use your celebrity be escorted with high publicity around as a guest by people we where in armed conflict with in an obvious show of support for them?...where in the name of peace do you call US servicemembers, POWs no less, liars with overreactive imaginations, where in the name of peace do you go before those same POWs and hold a staged press conference as propoganda, where in the name of peace do you applaud the then soviets for funding the same people who where killing and torturing servicemen, where in the fucking name of peace do you lobby to stop economic aid to South Vietnam even after the US had pulled out?

Peace my ass, I dont give two fucks about the politics of today (i'm a libertarian, like hell we'll ever get what we want), or about the war i'll be leaving to fight, or the war decades ago that wasent even my generation, I do give two shits about my uncle Johnny and My theo Carlos, I care about what they feel, what theyve been through, and I trust thier word over this wrinkled old cunt.

If they say the only things fitting her where Uncle Johnny's dick in her ass and Uncle Carlos's .45 through her mouth for what she did to them and thier old buddies, then I'll take thier word for it.

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Fuck the Pandas!
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Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
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(in reply to sleazy)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 1/31/2007 11:49:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

This has shit to do with the actual Vietnam war or war protesters in general and I dont like how it seems this thread is trying to deflect towards that. It has to do with one very fucked up individual who put her head so far up her ass that she has to see though her neck.

Where in the name of peace do you voluntarily use your celebrity be escorted with high publicity around as a guest by people we where in armed conflict with in an obvious show of support for them?...where in the name of peace do you call US servicemembers, POWs no less, liars with overreactive imaginations, where in the name of peace do you go before those same POWs and hold a staged press conference as propoganda, where in the name of peace do you applaud the then soviets for funding the same people who where killing and torturing servicemen, where in the fucking name of peace do you lobby to stop economic aid to South Vietnam even after the US had pulled out?

Peace my ass, I dont give two fucks about the politics of today (i'm a libertarian, like hell we'll ever get what we want), or about the war i'll be leaving to fight, or the war decades ago that wasent even my generation, I do give two shits about my uncle Johnny and My theo Carlos, I care about what they feel, what theyve been through, and I trust thier word over this wrinkled old cunt.

If they say the only things fitting her where Uncle Johnny's dick in her ass and Uncle Carlos's .45 through her mouth for what she did to them and thier old buddies, then I'll take thier word for it.

Rumtiger:
I am a little unclear as to your meaning in the above post.
Do you mean to say that in a conflict that the congress of the United States had not concured in (the constitution says they are the only ones who can declare war). That a private citizen may not express their opinion. And that now you are going to war to support the constitution that expresses that right.
thompson

(in reply to Rumtiger)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 1/31/2007 11:58:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachron

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Hehehehehe.... The anti-war movement just proved they can get even more marginal.

... and I would characterize that statement as a tactical attempt to marginalize quite a few millions of people without bothering to engage any of the reasoning behind their position.

JT

    Millions???   We can get 10 times as many illegals to a local rally in Los Angeles than the anti-war bunch can to a national protest in DC.

   And most of the blue-collar Democrats I know hate Fonda even more than they hate Bush.

    (just saw that you are in LA... Remember the day without traffic jams, oops, I mean "The Day Without An Immigrant?")

WyrdRich:
Really ten milliion illegal aliens marched in Los Angeles...It would appear that you only open your mouth to change feet.
thompson

(in reply to WyrdRich)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/1/2007 12:19:26 AM

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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

This has shit to do with the actual Vietnam war or war protesters in general and I dont like how it seems this thread is trying to deflect towards that. It has to do with one very fucked up individual who put her head so far up her ass that she has to see though her neck.

True or False? Was South Vietnam a rogue nation once Diem refused to obey the UN mandate of national elections?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Rumtiger)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/1/2007 12:35:19 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Rumtiger:
I am a little unclear as to your meaning in the above post.
Do you mean to say that in a conflict that the congress of the United States had not concured in (the constitution says they are the only ones who can declare war). That a private citizen may not express their opinion. And that now you are going to war to support the constitution that expresses that right.
thompson

I mean to say that Jane Fonda is someone whose actions hurt American POWs, and if she hurt just one thats enough in my mind to warrant the treatment to her that my uncles described. Dont try to turn this into some 1st amendment debate, when I look at a situation like that I see nothing more then a piece of the gene pool that should have had a spot of clorox put in. It's a personal, moral opinion and ideal, it has nothing to do with the law of the land. And like I said before, what kind of person for peace does that kind of shit?

As for trying to tell me why I'm doing what i'm doing, dont dare bother, you dont know me or what I feel or think. I'm not going into the military for the constitution, i'm not going for my country, i'm going for me. War is just part of the job.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/1/2007 12:37:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

This has shit to do with the actual Vietnam war or war protesters in general and I dont like how it seems this thread is trying to deflect towards that. It has to do with one very fucked up individual who put her head so far up her ass that she has to see though her neck.

True or False? Was South Vietnam a rogue nation once Diem refused to obey the UN mandate of national elections?

Dont care.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/1/2007 12:55:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Rumtiger:
I am a little unclear as to your meaning in the above post.
Do you mean to say that in a conflict that the congress of the United States had not concured in (the constitution says they are the only ones who can declare war). That a private citizen may not express their opinion. And that now you are going to war to support the constitution that expresses that right.
thompson

I mean to say that Jane Fonda is someone whose actions hurt American POWs, and if she hurt just one thats enough in my mind to warrant the treatment to her that my uncles described. Dont try to turn this into some 1st amendment debate, when I look at a situation like that I see nothing more then a piece of the gene pool that should have had a spot of clorox put in. It's a personal, moral opinion and ideal, it has nothing to do with the law of the land. And like I said before, what kind of person for peace does that kind of shit?

As for trying to tell me why I'm doing what i'm doing, dont dare bother, you dont know me or what I feel or think. I'm not going into the military for the constitution, i'm not going for my country, i'm going for me. War is just part of the job.

RumTiger:
I was not trying to tell you anything but rather to seek clarification. Now that you have clarified your position I would hope you would have the candor to tell the officer administering the oath that you are required to take when you join the military that you do not give a fuck about the constutution you are only interested in the "Rock and Roll".
thompson

(in reply to Rumtiger)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/1/2007 12:58:13 AM

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*pops popcorn*

This is going to get interesting.

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(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/1/2007 1:06:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

RumTiger:
I was not trying to tell you anything but rather to seek clarification. Now that you have clarified your position I would hope you would have the candor to tell the officer administering the oath that you are required to take when you join the military that you do not give a fuck about the constutution you are only interested in the "Rock and Roll".
thompson

I'm pretty sure I said I'm joining for me...the rest is what is part of the job.
Your doing that pretending like you know me shit again.

Edit:

Just because your such a big fan of clarification, lemme clarify it just a bit more. I'm joining because I want something better for my future, whether that be to gain new experience or skills or get a degree or two through the military depending on my job. I'm doing this because I want to do it, my motivations are just that: MINE.

So what did you join for?

< Message edited by Rumtiger -- 2/1/2007 1:22:02 AM >

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/1/2007 1:23:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

RumTiger:
I was not trying to tell you anything but rather to seek clarification. Now that you have clarified your position I would hope you would have the candor to tell the officer administering the oath that you are required to take when you join the military that you do not give a fuck about the constutution you are only interested in the "Rock and Roll".
thompson

I'm pretty sure I said I'm joining for me...the rest is what is part of the job.
Your doing that pretending like you know me shit again.

Rumtiger:
I am not pretending to know anything about you. I am only pointing out what you say is in conflict with the oath you will take to become a member of the U.S. military. It appears that you are more interested in playing "Rock and Roll" than you are in honoring your solemn oath.
I would suggest that any maltreatment of prisoners of war by the Vietnamese was a result of the prisoners actions and not due to anything done by Ms. Fonda.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 2/1/2007 1:24:15 AM >

(in reply to Rumtiger)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/1/2007 1:24:09 AM

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Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
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look up.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to thompsonx)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/1/2007 1:26:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rumtiger

look up.

Rumtiger:
?????????????????????
thompson

(in reply to Rumtiger)

RE: Jihad Jane??? - 2/1/2007 1:28:02 AM

Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline

post...edit...look above your post to mine...look up.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to thompsonx)

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