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NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 11:35:17 AM

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Joined: 10/27/2004
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I would really like to hear others thoughts on this. I am asking this because I just really don't understand this. I see often in profiles subs and slaves declaring they have "NO LIMITS", they are declaring no limits to someone that they have not even met or developed trust in. I hear subs and slaves in relationships saying that they have "NO LIMITS" with their Masters. I hear subs and slaves saying they would DIE to please their Master if he asked them to.

Where does this come from? Do the people stating such have no respect for themselves?...for their bodies? It can not be about trust, for even in a situation of complete trust there ARE limits.

I trust my Sir completely but if He were to wake up tomorrow and tell me he wanted me to die for his pleasure, I would simply take Him to the nearest psych ward for an evaluation as it would be a HUGE red flag that something had seriously gone wrong in his brain. While I trust Him completely, that trust is trust in the fact that He will always keep my best interests in mind. Although He is extemely fond of hurting me, I trust that He would never do anything to HARM me. If he stepped outside of that context then that is where the trust STOPS.

So what does this NO LIMITS thing mean? What does it mean in terms of actions? What does it say about the person stating that they have "NO LIMITS"?

Would they let their Master hack off their genitalia? an arm? a leg?
Would they drink a pint of Drano because he wanted to see intense squirming and writhing in pain?
Would they step in front of a semi truck on the count of three?
Jump off of a tall building?
Let him douse them with gasoline and set them ablaze?
Do something that is completely against their morals?
Gorge themselves to the point of morbid obesity?
Starve themselves to the brink of death?
Chainsmoke 18 packs of cigarettes a day?

WHAT????????

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 11:46:13 AM

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I think it means one of three different things, the first being more reasonable. I believe it means that they are uneducated in the vast extremes that this lifestyle can and often does encompass as well as exactly what "no limits" means.

Or it could mean that they have some very serious moral and physical issues and really, truly need full time, twenty four hour psychological help.

And last but far from least, it may seem like the fastest way to get kinky sex.....

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 11:47:35 AM

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Joined: 6/4/2004
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My response to those that claim they have "no limits" is to give me 10 minutes. I guarantee that I will find one.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 11:56:42 AM

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Where does this come from? Do the people stating such have no respect for themselves?...for their bodies? It can not be about trust, for even in a situation of complete trust there ARE limits.

It depends. Sometimes it's just newbies who don't realize what "no limits" might really mean. Sometime's it's wanting to feel superior. And sometimes it's people who have reached a point where they feel limits are obsolete and, in their relationship, they no longer need to be consideredn.

I would die at the Owner's orders, but then I'd die for a lot of things, including protecting my family and other loved ones. Since when is understanding what you're willing to die for a lack of respect?

quote:

So what does this NO LIMITS thing mean? What does it mean in terms of actions? What does it say about the person stating that they have "NO LIMITS"?

It means they either don't understand what they are saying, or that within their specific relationship, all limits are mutual and this irrelevant.

I have limits and limitations in my relationship- as a human I have MANY limits which couldn't be changed no matter who wanted them to be. But the limits I have in terms of behavior and obedience were set by the Owner and I accepted them.

quote:

Would they let their Master hack off their genitalia? an arm? a leg?
Would they drink a pint of Drano because he wanted to see intense squirming and writhing in pain?
Would they step in front of a semi truck on the count of three?
Jump off of a tall building?
Let him douse them with gasoline and set them ablaze?
Do something that is completely against their morals?
Gorge themselves to the point of morbid obesity?
Starve themselves to the brink of death?
Chainsmoke 18 packs of cigarettes a day?
WHAT????????

I would do whatever the Owner told me to do.

There is a rather large difference between obeying the Owner to die on command or hurting me and obeying someone killing you or damaging for kicks. If you can't see that difference then it would explain your confusion and exasperation.

This is the problem most vanillas have- they don't see the difference between whipping someones back and slicing them and totally abusing them. There is a difference.

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 12:25:20 PM

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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

quote:

Would they let their Master hack off their genitalia? an arm? a leg?
Would they drink a pint of Drano because he wanted to see intense squirming and writhing in pain?
Would they step in front of a semi truck on the count of three?
Jump off of a tall building?
Let him douse them with gasoline and set them ablaze?
Do something that is completely against their morals?
Gorge themselves to the point of morbid obesity?
Starve themselves to the brink of death?
Chainsmoke 18 packs of cigarettes a day?
WHAT????????

I would do whatever the Owner told me to do.

There is a rather large difference between obeying the Owner to die on command or hurting me and obeying someone killing you or damaging for kicks. If you can't see that difference then it would explain your confusion and exasperation.

So does that mean that you would do any or all of the things above because your Owner told you to?

I guess that maybe it does explain my confusion and exasperation then because I still just don't understand. Dead is still dead and maimed is still maimed. If it happens as a result of an accident or trying to save yourself or someone else, then yes I can understand it. But just to be in compliance with an order....no I don't understand that a bit.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 12:29:36 PM

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
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I beleave the "term" "no limits" is more of a hook in advertising.
Anyone has to have a trust level before allowing such to happen.

Part of that trust level is the fact that their Master would not do anything to THEM that would cause them perminent harm. ( think of it in the context of the "fearfactor" tv shows.. those events are perfectly safe from one viewpoint but when u are standing there ready for that leap there is a level of fear that "what if"

For one to allow a total stranger to use them in any mannor they see fit is very possably a thrill seeker or a "pain slut".I have met a girl like that in that her desire for pain over rides her internal "lil voice". And altho I have not seen her in some time I still do worry about her as she could come in contact with a sick person who will push her to "her" limit. and not knowing that SHE has no limit.

scarry

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 12:48:43 PM

nella

Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline

Some might get a kick out of having no limits, knowing that the Dominant might actualy kill them. JI dont understand this, but some might like it.

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 12:50:31 PM

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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
So does that mean that you would do any or all of the things above because your Owner told you to?

Simply put, yes.

quote:

I guess that maybe it does explain my confusion and exasperation then because I still just don't understand. Dead is still dead and maimed is still maimed. If it happens as a result of an accident or trying to save yourself or someone else, then yes I can understand it. But just to be in compliance with an order....no I don't understand that a bit.

Well, why would a sub be in compliance with an order JUST to be in compliance with an order for something less "extreme"? For example, why would a sub go out without a bra and panties just because the dom said so? It's the same mindset, just taken to "extreme."

There comes a point where you have to kinda just say "I don't get that mindset" and leave it at that. Do I believe we should accept everything someone does JUST because it's a dom and sub consenting? Not at all. However, just because someone ELSE tells me that what *I* do is wrong and bad, doesn't mean I agree. I fully support someone else's right to tell me what I do is wrong or sick, but I won't necessarily agree with it or change what I do.

I think there are some things that are ALWAYS wrong and ALWAYS bad- no matter what context.

It's about honoring who we are and the commitments we make. I don't think I'm some uber-awesome slave chick just because I know I would die at the Owners demand, I'm just someone who is owned and accepted exactly what that meant in my life.

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 1:44:44 PM

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Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

Well, why would a sub be in compliance with an order JUST to be in compliance with an order for something less "extreme"? For example, why would a sub go out without a bra and panties just because the dom said so? It's the same mindset, just taken to "extreme."

The difference is that no one gets harmed, maimed or killed. If my going sans bra and panties gives Him pleasure.....there is no harm in that. There is harm in drinking Drano for Him. BIG DIFFERENCE!

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 1:52:09 PM

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Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

Would I die for someone else?
Yes.

To me, death is not a limit, so, it does not fit this context for me. But is that really the issue?

Would I do anything that my Master wishes, without thought?
Yes.

Does that make me limitless?
No.

Being a non limits sub is not about whether one submits to their Owner without question, its whether a person has just that, no limits.

Personally, I would say that a non limit sub poses no real challenge for a Dominant. How would He help her grow? How does He gain the satisfaction, other than some quick release that would be the same every time?

I agree with Mr Thorns. A Dominant will find that limit, no matter how much a person resists and insists they are limitless.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 1:53:17 PM

ProtagonistLily

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Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

My response to those that claim they have "no limits" is to give me 10 minutes. I guarantee that I will find one.

~Thorns

I have complete confidence this is absolutely true ~grin~

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to MrThorns)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 2:13:43 PM

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Joined: 1/8/2005
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Leaving aside the subs who say 'no limits' before even meeting a Dom, they seem to me indeed to have psychological problems. But within an established relationship no limits is possible, because a trust has been established. (Of course, if a sub doesn't trust her Dom and still says no limits, see sentence one.)

She will correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that slaves like emerald can make their 'I would die for' comments in full trust that the Dom they have submitted to is never going to ask it. My slave says she has no limits - she does, in fact, but will do everything in her power not to let me see them - but she knows that while I will HURT her, as erin says, I will not HARM her. Within that caveat, she can honestly say 'no limits' because she knows I am never going to push her into places where real limits may lie.

So I think the answer to your conundrum, erin, is that as others have said, subs who claim no limits before meeting are either ignorant fools or very self-destructive; those who claim it within established D/s relationships can say it because they know that their Master is highly unlikely to ever demand something of them that they cannot give (and their levels of 'cannot' will, of course, vary enormously depending on the sub/slave).

Grandpa Lash

_____________________________

Sex without D/s is about as pointless as D/s without sex

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 2:23:22 PM

ProtagonistLily

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Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

She will correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that slaves like emerald can make their 'I would die for' comments in full trust that the Dom they have submitted to is never going to ask it.

Ok, fair enough. But if this is true, if the submissive, male or female, can make this statement only on the grounds that they believe they would never have to 'die' for the Dominant, what worth is it?

I'm not suggesting here that anyone should put themselves in harms way. I'm just curious as to the worth of a statement that is made on the basis of the result never having to be tested?

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to GrandpaLash)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 3:15:38 PM

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quote:

profiles subs and slaves declaring they have "NO LIMITS

erin,
Don't you see, it's part of the role they want to play? With emphasis on play. Put it in the same context as "Caged", or even "Naked / Collar & Cuffs", or better yet, those who in their commentary identifying themselves as "slave" or "Master" yet the narrative says they have no real experience in the lifestyle.

People are creating a profile by picking from a menu as they do in a Chinese restaurant. Except in this case it's not what they WANT or even what they THINK they want. They are listing and writing what they THINK someone who may want them WANTS.

There are almost 100,000 registered users here. Considering the recent trend and excluding people like beth and I who only have one profile for the both of us; that should mean there are at least 100 or so DIFFERENT people. (Sorry - "Evil Merc" typed that!) But if only we could find out how many have experienced even the elementary aspects of the lifestyle. For the vast majority, this is only a fantasy. The "NO LIMITS" label is just a mental prop for their mind play.

But ultimately - so what? Jeff Dahmar had no limits. The BTK murderer had no limits.

I very much respect and admire the slaves here who say they have no limits but in reality they do. They say as much in their response - They have their Master's limits. As does beth. And that's enough. There is nothing more valuable as a slave. No Master would ruin, break, or kill something as valuable as slave.

If all your life you strive and yearned for a hot car - say a BMW Z3. After a lot of hard work, you could afford it. After a long search, you found one that was perfect. After all the effort would you drive it off a cliff just because you could?

Sure, ask beth, she'll say she has no limits concerning our relationship. But I've already told her, she's too valuable and rare to wreck. And I'm too old and tired to search and train a replacement.

(in reply to mistoferin)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 3:23:25 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
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The first question that I ask when someoen says they have "no limits" is "Would you cut off a strangers arms with a chain saw if your owner asked you to?"

I can honestly say I have no limits with my partner -only- becaues I know he would not ask me to do something I believe is immoral (we share a very similar moral system) and because I know he would not hurt me.

I don't worry so much about a no-limits slave's self-preservation. What bothers me is that someone with no limits, by definition, is willing to abuse and harm other people. Commit yourself to being hurt or killed, as you like, but don't invovle or coerce others into it.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 3:29:30 PM

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Iam new to this but i wouldent say no limits to anyone i didnt know or trust and i think trust has a lot to do with this issue.I feel as a sub i would want to know my domna enough to know she wouldent want to hert me so bad that i would loose that trust i would have in her and with this i would do most anything she would want because she would have that intrest in me and she would get the most out of me that way.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 3:52:26 PM

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what they really mean when they say no limits is, when I find the right person I'll turn myself over to them completely. what they are not saying is that they have a very real limit, they arent just looking for anyone they are looking for an ideal that exists only in their heads and in very specific detail.

and then of course there are just the people who don't mean it.

Alex.

(in reply to craftywulf)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 4:02:15 PM

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Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

For the vast majority, this is only a fantasy. The "NO LIMITS" label is just a mental prop for their mind play.

I think you are right but I think maybe some subs would like to feel as if they have no limits.
It’s like hypnosis you can’t make some one do something that’s completely against nature to do. I think most people would resist doing something that is unthinkable to them. But in their minds they would like to imagine they are capable of doing anything they are ordered to do.
mantis

< Message edited by mantis65 -- 3/7/2005 4:03:50 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 4:04:06 PM

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quote:

I very much respect and admire the slaves here who say they have no limits but in reality they do. They say as much in their response - They have their Master's limits. As does beth. And that's enough. There is nothing more valuable as a slave. No Master would ruin, break, or kill something as valuable as slave.

Merc,
If we are speaking solely based upon the knowledge and trust that our Master would never do anything to harm us, then yes, I could say that I am a no limits slave. I know that He would never do anything to ruin or break this sports car. I know that because in our negotiation stage I told Him the things that I did not think I could be physically capable of(due to a broken back and a cardiac condition left over from a long, hard bout with Lyme disease). I told Him the things that I felt went so far against who I am morally that if I were forced to participate in those activities that I felt I could never mentally recover from them. I bared my heart, mind and soul to Him so that He could make informed decisions as to what is best for me. From there it is in His hands.

But because I have stated those things to Him, I am honest enough to say here that I DO have limitations. Even though the choices are His and I know and trust that He will make the right choices.....those choices are at least in part based upon those early negotiations.

I don't profess to KNOW you or beth, but I feel that I have gained a small amount of insight into who the two of you are because of your openness and honest commentary here on the boards. I have come to view the both of you as quite real, very frank, possessing the ability to not be so full of yourselves and your roles here that you can not take a moment to step back and just be people. You seem to have a good if not twisted sense of humor. But most of all you are both very knowledgeable and of above average intelligence. I also believe that the two of you have a beautiful relationship and love each other deeply.

Taking all of that into consideration, I am comfortable in the knowledge that you would never do anything to beth that would HARM her. I don't see you offering her a glass of Drano or asking her to let you disembowel her with a chainsaw anytime soon. I can see why beth trusts in you and can declare herself as having no limits with you.

You are right, I take most of the people stating such with a grain of salt as I believe that they have very little knowledge or experience and are listing such to attract someone who they THINK wants to hear such a thing. However, we have had one slave on this thread already declare that she would do any of the myriad of twisted and ludicrous things that I listed....just at the command of her Owner. Now this is a person who I have also come to view as being of above average intelligence based upon her posts.

This leads me to ask if there is something more here that I am just missing. Am I an inferior sub/slave because I have self love and an awareness of self responsibility and would never allow anyone to harm or kill me if I could help it? Am I just being honest at a more base level? Am I just defective and missing the "don't think for yourself" microchip?

As Lily stated, if the reason people state they are no limits is due to the fact that they trust in their Dominant/Master/Owner and know that He would never expect them to prove such a statement, then how credible is the statement? We could never ask someone to prove this as to do so would result in the harm or death of a human being. So are they just words in an attempt to express their level of devotion? the level of their trust? the level of their submission?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: NO Limits Subs and Slaves - 3/7/2005 4:21:51 PM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

My response to those that claim they have "no limits" is to give me 10 minutes. I guarantee that I will find one.

~Thorns

I am with Thorn on this (actually, I am sure he does not need the help to break them of their illusions - but, I am "with him in congruity of belief"

This is another of those delusional statements that people seem to accept at face value, but (in actuality) has 'no face'.

I canot tell you the amount of people, when asked if they considered "death" (as one example) a major 'limitation' in any relational and/or personal endeavor - will state that "Well - of course THAT goes without saying! - But, that is not what I am talking about."

Go figgya.

~J

< Message edited by LordODiscipline -- 3/7/2005 4:23:23 PM >

(in reply to MrThorns)

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