RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation?

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (Full Version)

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onestandingstill -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 10:02:37 AM)
Susan, my advice is to stop defending yourself here. 1-You really don't need to as people are going to read the thread and deduce their own positions based on that. Nothing you can say now will be beneficial IMO. 2-The more you defend the more emotions of frustration etc... you're showing about this and the more you're riling yourself up. Just move forward and leave the comments that are out here where they fall. 3-Don't let people keep you out of the threads, some of us are really glad you're here. Keep your chin up and your eyes on the sky, you'll fly when you're ready. suzanne

SusanofO -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 10:07:36 AM)
This honestly isnt a personal thing. I've thougt a lot about it, and I just don't see how being mean to people ever helps them, because the manner in which the message is imparted to begin with, is almost guaranteed to tune out the person is intended to reach. *Also, it is very much worth mentioning, that people who rarely (if ever), self-disclose, could very well have personal lives that are in complete shambles, as easily as they could be stellar examples of emotional health (or otherwise capable of giving decent advice). So - if someone never* self-dicloses anything about themselves, or their lives, here on-line, when offering to another their "good advice", I tend to take it with a grain of salt, no matter how eloquent they are in expressing their opinion. Now I'll grant everyone has their own personality, and some are more objective than others, etc. That's not what I am referring to here. I really like a lot of people I find obejective (moreso than me anyway, a lot of the time). And I certainly don't out-right hate anybody. My point is though, in general - is it really getting through to people when people jump on eachother, and beat them over the head with their own supposed stupidity? Is this really helpful? Is it actually "progressive" in any sense that it helps someone "see the light"? Not really, IMO. Others of course, can and will disagree. I just don't find relating to people like this, especially if they are grown adults, to be particularly pleasant, or particularly enlightening. It makes me want to avoid them, and I tend to tune them out, even if I don't say that, and they might still believe they are encouraging others, being helpful, etc. because it seems clear they cannot practice what they themselves preach. Therefore, their advice, as far as I can tell, falls mostly flat for me, a lot of the time(although occasionally, I might still find something of value in what they say). Of course, I might view the purpose of a message board differently than some. I do think some see it more as entertainment, even if that's not what they say. Of course, some come right out and say it, and either way is fine. I don't run the world, and people are gonna do what they want, as always. - Susan

SoCalOTKhristine -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 11:06:15 AM)
Wow, this is one of the most intellectual flamed posts I have ever read. First off, I find this forum HOPPING with highly intelligent people, something you rarely find on internet bulletin boards/forums. It is refreshing and informative to read. Being a newbie, I did find value in Susan's post. It confirmed that my "way" of going about things is a good one, that being a sub does not mean I hand over all trust to a potential "future" playmate/partner. In my head (not on the forums), I began to question my submissive qualities, thinking I was less of a sub by being cautious and at times, down right cynical. The majority of the posted replies confirmed that being smart about meeting a potential dom is the ONLY way to go... Then, I began to see the posts calling Susan out. My immediate reaction is, why are they taking the time out of their day to do that? Upon further reading, I realized that this is a form of "help"....that they do care, else they wouldn't say anything. I recently lost a 13 year friendship because I got tired of dealing with her crap. She constantly got into trouble with men, making bad choices, and complaining to me about them. I took all of her complaints to heart...literally. When I met said man, and he displayed a "pinch" of bad behavior around me, I lost it. I went off on him. If I didn't care about my friend, I wouldn't have done that. We got in a huge fight about my outburst towards him, I apologized. (It really WAS out of line) We didn't talk for 3-4 months. I realized it was none of my business whether or not this woman f'ed up her life. She is an adult, as am I. I had become so close to her, and cared too much about her hurt. I dropped that side of me in our relationship. Guess what? I find it hard to be close friends with someone if I don't care about their hurt. After she started more drama, and I realized that she wanted my full involvement, I stopped the relationship. I learned I cannot be friends with someone who doesn't learn from their errors. So, basically, I understand the frustration shared by the posters pointing out Susan's "pattern" of behavior. Susan, I don't know you, so my post was one from that standpoint. It was a detached, supportive reply. The other posters have seen a pattern of behavior and pointed it out bluntly, in their attempt to "save" you from a future negative experience. They do so with time on these boards under their belt, and time in the lifestyle. You may not like what you hear, but is there truth behind it? If so, take that and run with it. Because, soon, they will stop posting and "caring" when you vent or need advice. Oh, I had to point out one more thing...the whole "info sent to a friend in sealed envelope theory"....Unless this friend opens said envelope prior to going to said meeting, assuring that the info is valid and checks it out for you (maybe I missed this in the post), PRIOR to said meeting out of state, out of safety zone...I see no value in this little exercise. I can see the "mystery" in it all, and that possibly adding excitement to a meeting...but if that envelope is NOT checked and validated prior to meeting...what good does it do? For God's sake, he could send a bunch of crap in the envelope for all we now...what good is that once found at the bottom of a swamp? (my 2 cents here, sorry, I don't mess with my safety, no matter how exciting something may be)

SusanofO -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 11:07:31 AM)
I found the opinions imparted on this thread were much more helpful, on balance than not, and I did find just being able to vent, and possibly the fact the topic might help someone else, to make it worthwhile for me. People's responses in general don't have much effect, as far as being a determining factor re: Whether I decide to post a new thread, or respond to one with posts. I agree, as far as being helpful, it is no just a question of balance, but also not what people say - but how they in fact say it. All in all, I am glad I posted this thread, and if I had it to do over, I'd do it again. - Susan

adaddysgirl -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 11:15:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse If anyone is upset over what Aileen has typed, trust me, it's not Aileen's problem. Now all you pattyasses might see her words as rude and well, that's your perogative. Personally, I see it as your problem. Myself, I prefer to hear/read the truth instead of a bunch of pretty platitudes. From what I have gathered from reading Aileen's posts over the time I have been here she is similar to me in that regard. Before you jump on the manners/rudeness bandwagon consider what is most important to you. Someone telling you the truth or a lie and allowing you to continue looking like a fool just because they haven't got the cahonies(questionable spelling and I don't give a shit) to be honest with you? Who do you want as a friend? A smiling gutless liar or the honest, if not always worded the way you want to hear it, person. I will take the honest person and the occasional owies that go with them any day of the week. All I gotta say is if you prefer the former, sucks to be you. Grow up people! Well i don't know about anyone else here but all of my friends tell me the truth, but don't make me feel worse than i did before in the process. And that is the consideration i give them as well. None of them are 'smiling gutless liars' to my knowledge....and they are honest. A little kindness with the truth goes a long way in my book. Or are some people just incapable of that? DG

LaTigresse -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 11:16:17 AM)
You are correct.......any advice or words of wisdom that you are given that you do not agree with you will perceive as being rude or an attack on you. That is human nature. Real growth begins when you look past that visceral reaction at the truth that lies within. Observe yourself calmly and objectively regardless of what you THINK the intention of the person that wrote those words is. Again I will state, Susan you are the one in control of your reactions to other's words. Regardless of wether you find them rude, offensive or disturbing or how they were truly intended, you control how they affect you. And lastly, being an intelligent open minded person I am sure that you are already aware that the enviroment in which you were raised and the manners and behaviour you were taught is not the same world wide. As many others, I came from a large boisterous family where truthful conversation mixed with not a little yelling was simply considered a debate. Not a personal attack, bad manners or rude.

LaTigresse -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 11:19:04 AM)
I think if you take the time and read my post history you will understand that I do not need to answer.

SusanofO -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 11:35:53 AM)
It's not a personal attack LaT. Please don't take it as one. I thought I did mention that, and I did mean it. It's not an attack on anyone here - believe that, or not. It's just that the interaction in this thread really brought to mind something I've always observed on these boards, as much toward any random person, as it could be directed personally, I suppose. I am not meaning this toward any person. It's simply my observation, after reading two years of message board posts, that many (or at least some folks), tend to truly not be able to discern between venting their spleen on someone, and imparting objective (if somewhat critical, on occasion) advice. I really do see a distinct difference here (and I know you do too). And sometimes, when I see a new person post something that maybe some might construe as a little silly, I just cringe, because I just know they are going to get about 50 people, who have nothing better to do with their time, apparently (or maybe obviously have a different value system from mine) jumping on them and telling them how stupid they are. Even if they could be construed as "dim" - what value is there in that? IMO, they've destoyed the supposed value of their intended message due to the manner in which they've chosen to impart it. Their message is most likely lost on the poster (they can tell themselves otherwise to make themselves feel better, but I think it's delusional, mostly) . Sometimes, the people who write them will try to be helpful, or otherwise give opinions that are balanced. But I see a lot of nasty commentary that the world could really live without, IMO, as well. Isn't there enough hatred, nastiness, and hard-core crap in the world? I cannot imagine why they'd think it was their moral duty to add to the mess. I am a grown adult, and can pretty much handle any comment anyone wants to throw my way (in extreme cases, I opt to toss it right back in someone's face, which is my perfect right to do, regardless of being futile. I do realize at least, though, that it is futile, which I am convinced many do not). I am certainly capable of growth, and I grow as much as I learn or don't. I agree with your contention about growth. Quite frankly, though, I find the comments of some folks (again not you), who rarely have the guts, or maybe just inclination, to ever self-disclose anything about themselve sor their personal lives, to be a bit over-the-top in drawing conclusions about how much I am "growing as a person" or not, given that they otherwise know nothing about me, and do not live with me 24-7. Until they do, if their comments are phrased in a highly critical, or rude manner - I will tend to take their opinions with a grain of salt, however eloquent or worldly-wise in intent they might seem, or be worded. That this would surprise anyone, given that they'd probably do much the same thing themselves in the same situation, is something I find laughable. It was an observation, and I am pretty sure some others have made the same observation. Message boards can be used for good,or bad or be indifferent. It wouldn't hurt more folks (IMO) - and I am NOT referring to you here, it is a general comment, please take it at face value) to be a little less quick to judge, and a little more understanding, in their conclusions, or just not make a comment, period. But that is my personality (most of the time) and it's not the way everybody sees it. Some do, some don't. Either way -life goes on. - Susan And I am sorry you thought my post was personally directed at you; it honestly wasn't.

susie -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 11:51:27 AM)
Susan I have read all of the posts on this thread and must say that I think that ALL of the advice you were given was great in their own way. Perhaps when you have calmed down from all of this and are less emotional about the whole thing you can come back and read the responses again and view them differently. I would say thought that if you meant this to be a "vent" as you put it, giving the thread a title of "Please help me" opens yourself up to all the responses that you received. You clearly asked for help and you got it although not all of it to your liking.

LaTigresse -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 11:51:58 AM)
Oh good grief Susan I never considered it a personal attack and even if it blatantly was, it wouldn't matter to me at all. I refuse to allow anyone on here to upset me, mildly annoyed on occasion (which as I stated, I use to self analyse), but never ever upset. My point was moreso, what you or someone else may perceive as an attack may not be at all. We all have different methods of communicating, some more abrasive or annoying to some people than others. Just because one person does not particularly appreciate a person's communication style does not mean the intent behind it has no value. I believe that if people were less quick to ASSUME and more open to understand the intent, even ask questions prior to loosing their cool, there would be a great deal less flaming and alot more intelligent debate. My intent was not to upset anyone but to open their minds to other potential intent rather than the one it appeared they were perceiving. Not all gifts come in prettily wrapped packages. Not all of life's important lessons are learned in a classroom. To discredit or demean their value because of it, is a waste. Lastly, never worry about sugar coating words with me. I like when my beliefs are challenged, when I am forced to think outside my comfort zone. It can be scary, but I call it growth. And while I may blast back, go off and mull it over, then contemplate why. Your still not gonna get me all pissy, hurt, or bent outta shape. AND, since I really cannot reach thru the computer and smack someone upside the head when I think their being a moron.......there is no risk of me doing prison time.

SusanofO -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 11:53:35 AM)
Well okay then, LaT. HUGs!![:)] - Susan

justfortheforums -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 12:59:45 PM)
Susan, you are a beautiful woman....why are you so gullible? Wake up. There are very real and respectful Doms on here. There are also stalkers, rapists, married men seeking attention, kids having fun messing with adults and the list goes on. Anyone who is truly interested in establishing a relationship with you would know that trust goes both ways.

lilsubl -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 1:44:47 PM)
hmmm...i'm trying to see the connection between beauty & gullibility, or lack thereof...i've read this entire thread, which has been very interesting & insightful...i'm just learning at my advanced age how beneficial venting can be & how it doesn't necessarily send people away from me...i have depression that i understand is mostly about anger turned inward, so i'm being taught to get it out...i'm currently reading a book by John O'Hurley, entitled "It's ok to miss the bed on the first jump and Other Life Lessons I Learned From Dogs"...in the very beginning he talks about this very thing: he would sit & talk to his dog when he was 5 & ask her questions, which of course the dog couldn't answer...he says that what he learned from this was that the answer wasn't the important thing...the dog taught him through her "silence and companionship that problems and disappointments lose their power when they're put into words...answers are not always important; they will come. When we verbalize a worry, we remove it from our imagination, where it can grow and fester and do us the most harm." so i think that what Susan and the other posters did here was invaluable to her & to the ones who wrote & read these words...it took the problem out of the imagination so it wouldn't fester there...it then lost its power to control her behavior... good job, all......

UR2Badored -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 2:21:07 PM)
It is not vindictive to point out a clear pattern of behavior that has one in the role of constant victim--after all the thread states, "Please help me" (Someone has pointed this out since). It might be time to question: Who is the common denominator in this pattern? Why would anyone attack a person who is honestly analyzing the scenario (not facts) offered? (We do not know the other side of story. Assuming that this post is valid and not made up for desired feedback or just boredom on your part--who knows?) It doesn’t appear that anyone has attacked you, but rather the contrary. You seem to be well cared for by this forum as you have had many genuine as well as a variety of responses. Just because someone asks advice and some of what is offered suggests taking a reasonable amount of responsibility in the situation or relationship doesn't mean they are attacking. It is your right and prerogative to assume no responsibility in any relationship in your life or to consider any outside advice offered if that works for you. Likewise, no one is responsible for adding sugar to medicine they dose out as advice in a forum, and I do not understand the rationale of only listening to words that place you entirely as a victim. However, you are the one who wrote for advice (according to the thread's title), and yes we all understand there are many reasons to posts...I doubt anyone is so ignorant to think there is only one or two reasons to posts as you've implied. It is clear when there comes a time for a person to do some unbiased self-reflection on these reoccurring patterns similar to the ones you have expressed over the year--some people reflect occasionally; some never do regardless of how advice is offered or interpreted....It is no surprised to me that you are yet again considering yourself a victim in a relationship that you've voluntarily entered as an adult. Why do I have a right to have an opinion of your personal situation? The answer is because you invited us all in by what you have chosen to give us privy to--it is neither right nor wrong to be more private or public. It is merely a choice. Case in point, I do not think this thread is in anyway a sacrificial teaching aid to help others. I am sure there are hordes that disagree with my observation, but it is still my view. It is ludicrous (at best) to consider one a teacher because he or she would buy an airline ticket before even knowing the basic information of the party he or she is going to meet for the first time. This is hardly a lesson a reasonable, sane person needs to learn--let's be real for a moment. I do not see a self-sacrificing teacher, but someone who is seemingly overly critical of anyone who counters her position. Also, apparently refuses any reasonable suggestion to a possible cause to the problem. I don’t view refusing help offered in a forum necessarily a bad thing, but there is a consensus brewing here--maybe these folks are on to something (maybe not). I doubt if anyone would want to harm you with intentional mean advice....You obviously do have your share of supporters. . This is only an observation of your numerous posts, and I assume you are much more complicated than your posts may appear to me or the CM readers--perceptions vary and cannot be dictated by anyone. I do not know you other than what you have volunteered. It makes me wonder where was the thread when you were making that decision to buy that airline ticket? I disagree with others who have suggested that you keep your posting to a minimum--you evidently need more personal advice from a forum than the average person and apparently feel you have a right to vent without any constructive criticism or without anyone disagreeing with your views or how you project yourself in your posts. That may be worded poorly. Perhaps better to imply that you feel comfortable airing personal matters or venting in forums more so than others. Just my observation and from your very own posts, you cling to the role of perpetual victim and self-righteousness to the point where help cannot be received or heard (in this case "read”)....I just feel it might be dangerous to identify as a victim while pursuing desires of a submissive. To me that is very dangerous. This may or may not be the case with you. Perception is subjective, and you definitely can and have the right to ignore the "good" advice given or challenge anything that negates your own perception. After all, you know your situation better than any of us. You will have your cheerleaders and you will have people you call "vindictive" for simply calling the proverbial spade a spade. It is unfortunate that you ignore the latter as you might actual learn something. If a person (not necessarily you) only wants the "poor, pitiful you/me " responses--one is not really looking for help but merely continuing a pattern of being a victim albeit a forum or real life circumstances. We all have our problems, but we all do not project ourselves as victims of our problems. Advice, harsh or sweet, is still advice.......no one owes any OP anything or is required to have it offered in a pleasant way. (really and truly) It may appear mean or rude because it hits too close to home. So if you are not ready for genuine advice……I will offer…..I am so sorry this happened to you yet again. I don’t understand why someone as smart and charming as you has had such continual onset of bad luck. That guy is mean and very bad. He was lucky to find you and is a big loser (IMO). BFF (Pardon my interruption; Please continue with the scheduled programming)

SusanofO -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 3:37:03 PM)
Very well stated. Possibly helpful. Certainly eloquent. And you know this - HOW EXACTLY? Certainly not by inquring of me - the person who wrote the actual, original thread post. That woulod probably make too much sense. I stated several times, which you apparently chose to commpletely ignore - that I found this thread to be valuable in many ways. However - given your audacity, and the fact that you don't know me, or my personal history here, or anywhere else, or anything about me, assuming I am a perpeutal "victim" is certainly a disingenious assumption. I am NOT a "victim" - here or anywhere. Nor am I stupid. IMO - You have zero business commenting on anything about me personally. Commenting on what may or may not have occurred would certainly (it seems - maybe especially in your case) be an intelligent tack to take. It's one option anyway. But is was interesting that you chose to take the opportunity to demonstrate, one more time, why so many seem to give up and disavow these message boards entirely. Inquiring more, or asking questions, or simply being bit dipolomatic would be an intelligent tack to take. But of course - you're on a message board. No consequences for you. As for me - I certainly don't give a damn about your opinion.You don't know me. Not to mention, you have absolutely no experience in the situation in question -and if you do, you certainly didn't mention it. Your opinion, therefore - counts for SQUAT with me. How's that for being "victimized"? No - I am certainly NOT a "perpetual victim" Stick around, and I'll prove it. Oh wait. I forgot. I have a real life, and plans tonight. Gotta go. - Susan

UR2Badored -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 3:56:35 PM)
Your point is duly noted and your actions are well documented on this forum (which of course does not make anyone (including myself) actually know the real you)...there is no need to further elaborate my point....You have demonstrated my point through your posts far greater than I could ever articulate it. good luck

swtnsparkling -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 4:02:20 PM)
Susan, I do not know you - we have never chatted- never exchanged a email. But I have been on here for 3 years and I've read more than enough of your posts to see, yes you are a victim. Drama is big part of your life.You keep saying your not stupid- no your not- but your clearly not very smart some times either. You are still defending yourself ( in extreme lenght)because you didnt like some of the replies - true ones at that- all you have opened up to is the fluffy- "oh so sorry this happned to you- here's a hug" you cannot go back now and say all this from you was "just a vent"- it was NOT just a vent it was a Question posed to everyone on the boards and you got replies. The strong honest replies are what you cannot deal with.

valeca -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 4:02:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: onestandingstill Susan, my advice is to stop defending yourself here. 1-You really don't need to as people are going to read the thread and deduce their own positions based on that. Nothing you can say now will be beneficial IMO. 2-The more you defend the more emotions of frustration etc... you're showing about this and the more you're riling yourself up. Just move forward and leave the comments that are out here where they fall. 3-Don't let people keep you out of the threads, some of us are really glad you're here. Keep your chin up and your eyes on the sky, you'll fly when you're ready. suzanne Just thought I'd pop this one up again. Really, it's very good advice. Especially #'s 1 and 2.

completenz -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 4:08:52 PM)
hi i agree with Valeca and would just add.... Can everyone please take a deep breath before this continues thanks hugs c

SweetAndInnocent -> RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? (3/9/2007 5:50:54 PM)
It is ludicrous (at best) to consider one a teacher because he or she would buy an airline ticket before even knowing the basic information of the party he or she is going to meet for the first time. This is hardly a lesson a reasonable, sane person needs to learn--let's be real for a moment. I do not see a self-sacrificing teacher, but someone who is seemingly overly critical of anyone who counters her position I waited to read all posts before responding, and was so shocked to see it took this long for this to be said. While I agree with all who said this thread was really a "please tell me how sorry you are for me" thread, and a "lets bash him he's a liar" thread, what about the fact that a ticket was purchased, a sex toy bought, etc,etc, when a last name was not even known.

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