RE: CIAW

RE: CIAW (Full Version)

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GeekyGirl -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:26:35 PM)
Call me Ms. CIAW of the year then. Cheating, as defined as "having sexual relations without the approval/consent of your partner" is just WRONG to me and a betrayal. BTW, I define sexual relations as kissing, making out, genital touching, sex, oral sex, anal sex, handjobs, cyber sex, phone sex etc. To me,it's never, ever acceptable. If you aren't happy with your relationship, you need to leave...if you aren't willing to leave, shut up and stop whining about what you are not getting. Nothing is more annoying that someone who whines about how miserable they are but lacks the fortitude to stand up and make a tough decision so they can be happy. I think sex is critically important. I would never stay in a relationship where I was sexually unfulfilled.

Devilslilsister -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:28:30 PM)
LaT i disagree........ no of us are better then anyone else..... because...... we all make mistakes. My point about cheating. Its wrong, people make mistakes. So what? It is wrong.... shit happens..

AquaticSub -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:32:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Since when is not being perfect an excuse for inflicting non-consentual emotional pain on an entire family? What about the non consentual pain inflicted on a spouse by someone who vows to "honor, cherish, love... etc.... for better or worse.. richer and poorer...etc" and then bails on them physically or emotionally?? i always hate the way the cheater is strung up yet the poor "abused" spouse is left with a halo on their heads for enduring such "abuse". Life is complicated - decisions are made - some outcomes can't be predicted - people get hurt, yeah it all sucks... but the fault doesn't lie ONLY with the cheater. Who is anyone to judge anyway? If you expect someone to live up to their word - be damned ready to live up to yours as well! Two wrongs still, amazingly, don't make a right. String them both up.

valeca -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:33:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears i am sorry for the pain you endured valeca, couldn't have been easy. It shows a lot of courage and soul searching to be able to come to grips with what happened and take some of the responsibility - this is how people change and grow. Not at all easy, good luck to you - i am sure you are a stronger and wiser woman for it. Thanks, but don't be sorry for the pain. It was a positive thing in my life overall. [:)] It wasn't easy, but it was necessary. I like to think I'm wiser, but the 'stronger' was there all along; it just took something significant to bring it to the surface.

AquaticSub -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:35:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: valeca Y'know, I gotta agree here. My x-husband cheated on me, and the outcome of the infidelity devastated my life as I knew it (married out of high-school, at-home mother of two, no marketable job skills suddenly forced to support myself and my small(er) family, loss of my home...). At first, I (and most everyone in our 'world') held him entirely to blame, but at one point, I had to admit I held some fault in the breakdown of the marriage, as well. Maybe not the bulk of it (he was responsible for his actions, of course), but some. It sucked, and it was a hard pill to swallow, but it was worth it. I grew from that experience, and I used to say, "If it wasn't for all the emotional crap you have to go through, I'd really recommend divorce! It shows you how tough you can be!" I wouldn't really recommend it, of course, but I would say that the 'cheater' isn't always soley to blame. I never said they are entirely to blame. However, it still isn't right.

velvetears -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:36:19 PM)
My point is - why string anyone up?? Who is anyone to judge? If you think it's wrong, then it's wrong for you. Two people live a relationship - two people are responsible for its outcome - unless we are god, why the need to say whats right and what's wrong??

angelic -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:39:24 PM)
~fast reply~ Some will justify 'cheating' by admitting they cheat and then believe it absolves them of the guilt for cheating and subsequently do it over and over again.

AquaticSub -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:41:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears My point is - why string anyone up?? Who is anyone to judge? If you think it's wrong, then it's wrong for you. Two people live a relationship - two people are responsible for its outcome - unless we are god, why the need to say whats right and what's wrong?? Because we place value on consent. By this reasoning there should be no hard limits because consent and trust don't matter. If it shouldn't matter when he goes off and cheats on me without even informing me, then why should it matter when he does anything else?

LaTigresse -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:42:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister LaT i disagree........ no of us are better then anyone else..... because...... we all make mistakes. My point about cheating. Its wrong, people make mistakes. So what? It is wrong.... shit happens.. bugger it all! the computer ate my reply! Basically, I think my post was too brief and misunderstood.

LaTigresse -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:43:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears My point is - why string anyone up?? Who is anyone to judge? If you think it's wrong, then it's wrong for you. Two people live a relationship - two people are responsible for its outcome - unless we are god, why the need to say whats right and what's wrong?? This is similar to what I typed that was eaten though much much briefer than mine.

GeekyGirl -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:43:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears My point is - why string anyone up?? Who is anyone to judge? If you think it's wrong, then it's wrong for you. Two people live a relationship - two people are responsible for its outcome - unless we are god, why the need to say whats right and what's wrong?? Because betrayal is always wrong. End of story. I've never met a person who enjoyed being betrayed. No one walks into a relationship saying "Please lie to me, cheat on me, betray me, and treat me like crap."

littlesarbonn -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:43:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister i dont understand what the fucking problem with just admitting its wrong? Cheating IS wrong. Ok........... so you've done something wrong Are you going to burn in hell? Doubtful The other day, a woman outside the post office told me my eternal soul was going to Hell because I opened the paper machine without paying the 50 cents (the machine has been broken for months now). I said the responsibility was the newspaper company's for not fixing the machine, as I actually left a message in the machine indicating that it was broken and had been for some time. She said unless I put 50 cents into the broken newspaper machine, I was going to Hell. So, yes, people interject themselves into our lives all the time without our permission.

velvetears -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:48:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Because we place value on consent. By this reasoning there should be no hard limits because consent and trust don't matter. If it shouldn't matter when he goes off and cheats on me without even informing me, then why should it matter when he does anything else? It should matter to the people involved, no one else. As valeca said in her experience, by taking some responsibility for it happening she was able to gain from it, grow from it, and i am sure probably move on with her life. You talk about consent, then i ask you this - where is the consent when your spouse turns over in bed, night after night, leaving you there to ponder what happened to turn their partner so cold. i am not advocating "cheating" by any means - but i know enough about human nature to understand nothing is as simple as 1+1 = 2.

SusanofO -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:49:44 PM)
You are so brave *cloudboy.* I so much love it that you're a compassionate lawyer, and so prepared to take on tougher topics. I am reading the rest of the article now. Back in a few.[:)] - Susan

AquaticSub -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:51:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears It should matter to the people involved, no one else. As valeca said in her experience, by taking some responsibility for it happening she was able to gain from it, grow from it, and i am sure probably move on with her life. You talk about consent, then i ask you this - where is the consent when your spouse turns over in bed, night after night, leaving you there to ponder what happened to turn their partner so cold. i am not advocating "cheating" by any means - but i know enough about human nature to understand nothing is as simple as 1+1 = 2. Maybe they should, I don't know, talk to their partner? There are many alternatives to cheating. Like talking. Or couple's therapy. Hell work out a sex schedule if needed. Or tell them "I need to sexual stimulation we've tried X,Y, and Z. You aren't putting in any effort. Either we need fix this, end this, or give me permission to go elsewhere."

GeekyGirl -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:52:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears It should matter to the people involved, no one else. As valeca said in her experience, by taking some responsibility for it happening she was able to gain from it, grow from it, and i am sure probably move on with her life. You talk about consent, then i ask you this - where is the consent when your spouse turns over in bed, night after night, leaving you there to ponder what happened to turn their partner so cold. i am not advocating "cheating" by any means - but i know enough about human nature to understand nothing is as simple as 1+1 = 2. You can't control other peoples actions but you can control your own. You can't control the fact that your spouse has become frigid towards you...but you have a choice in whether or not you stay in that relationship.

velvetears -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:53:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl Because betrayal is always wrong. End of story. I've never met a person who enjoyed being betrayed. No one walks into a relationship saying "Please lie to me, cheat on me, betray me, and treat me like crap." Yup, i agree betrayal sucks BIG time. Let me ask you this though - if you stood next to someone who vowed to love honor and cherish you forever, then recinded on that vow - wouldn't you feel betrayed as well?? Two wrongs don't make a right, but life can get mighty complicated and decisions aren't always so easy to make - especially when UMs are involved etc.

AquaticSub -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:55:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl Because betrayal is always wrong. End of story. I've never met a person who enjoyed being betrayed. No one walks into a relationship saying "Please lie to me, cheat on me, betray me, and treat me like crap." Yup, i agree betrayal sucks BIG time. Let me ask you this though - if you stood next to someone who vowed to love honor and cherish you forever, then recinded on that vow - wouldn't you feel betrayed as well?? Two wrongs don't make a right, but life can get mighty complicated and decisions aren't always so easy to make - especially when UMs are involved etc. Well duh... however, either work things out or leave. Just because someone broke their vows doesn't mean you should.

GeekyGirl -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:59:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl Because betrayal is always wrong. End of story. I've never met a person who enjoyed being betrayed. No one walks into a relationship saying "Please lie to me, cheat on me, betray me, and treat me like crap." Yup, i agree betrayal sucks BIG time. Let me ask you this though - if you stood next to someone who vowed to love honor and cherish you forever, then recinded on that vow - wouldn't you feel betrayed as well?? Two wrongs don't make a right, but life can get mighty complicated and decisions aren't always so easy to make - especially when UMs are involved etc. First of all, the UM argument is an excuse. Plenty of us were raised by divorced parents. A divorce won't kill them and they will probably be healthier by NOT being raised in a loveless environment. If a person rescinds their vow to love and cherish me, I would do the right then and get a divorce BEFORE becoming involved with another person. It's just the right thing to do. Anything else is an excuse made by a person too weak to stand up and do what's right. Certain things to me are ALWAYS wrong , no if-ands-or-butts. Stealing is ALWAYS wrong. Lying is ALWAYS wrong. Cheating is ALWAYS wrong. Does that mean I've never done those things? No. Because I have lied and even stolen a time or two. (I have never cheated though...I find it the most despicable action of a human being). When I do something wrong, I stand up and say "Gee, I was wrong, I screwed up." I don't try to make excuses for my lousy behavior.

velvetears -> RE: CIAW (3/11/2007 3:59:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl You can't control other peoples actions but you can control your own. You can't control the fact that your spouse has become frigid towards you...but you have a choice in whether or not you stay in that relationship. Are you sure about this?? Across the board, for everyone, in every situation?? i don't agree with this statement - many don't have a choice, if simply because the choice would be choosing a greater of two evils.

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