RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!!

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RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/15/2007 6:43:04 PM

dogthing

Posts: 98
Joined: 9/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

It's all in the carrots.

Agree. We have our own priorities and ideas about what we like and what we feel we need from life. Needs override wants.

An ambitious businessman or businesswoman may want to be liked by their colleagues, but their need to be uber-successful may override that. They may be happier in themselves being successful in business and not being liked, than having lots of people that like them but feeling that they squandered their potential.

Someone else might like to have a career, but decide that what they really need is to have a big family and to have a lot of free time to spend with their kids.

An artist's need to create may be more important to them than to have a family or a career or friends or a flashy car.

An athlete's need to push themselves to the limit may be more important to them than indulging their liking for chocolate doughnuts.

If someone feels that they need something, and its hard to come by, and the opportunity arises for them to have it, then other considerations become less important.

< Message edited by dogthing -- 3/15/2007 6:45:13 PM >

(in reply to mstrjx)

Post #: 21

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/15/2007 7:27:32 PM

leakylee

Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline

i am going to go out on a limb here. what i see so many times defined as "needs" is purely the physical aspects? humans need some type of physical, vocal, interaction to remain emotionally emotionally healthy. so in away wouldnt this make each individual's needs unique? (not meant to highjack)

playing into this as humans, reguardless of what side of the power dynamic, isnt there a small emotional zing when a want is earned, or fulfilled. so then in someways it creates a bit of a win/win situation?

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Post #: 22

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/15/2007 7:39:10 PM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Within the D/s dynamic it is often stated that a Dominant has a responsibility to protect the fulfillment of a submissives needs.

However, it is also often stated that a Dominant is not obligated to fulfill the wants of a submissive.

First... do you agree with this line of thought?

secondly...

So... If a Dominant never fulfilled any wants of the submissive. Would it reasonable to expect the submissive to stay in the relationship?
I wonder if it is not a need to fulfill the wants of a submissive to some level.

Note... I use the term submissive as a catch all phrase to identify all s-type individuals... Even that uber self-scarificing slave.

As I pondered this line of thinking... (besides the obvious that every situation is subjective)... I was considering that needs perserve our existence... but it is the fulfillment of wants that may bring a sense of happiness and fulfillment that is beyond a level of just existing. Maslow theory speaks alot to this in many ways .. but I am wondering what are your thoughts on this topic.

Very good question KoM. I will address the sub/slaves needs first. Shelter, food, blah blah blah… As I have stated before his/her wants are irrelevant to the dynamic. Me indulging wants is just window dressing and tools to the dynamic. Now that that is out of the way I will get strait to her wants vs my needs.

I need………………………………..she wants
To Dominate………………………...to submit
To pull her hair……………………...her hair pulled
To treat her like a slut occasionally…to be a slut occasionally
A great helpmate…………………….to be a great helpmate
An intellectual slave………………...to be respected as an intellectual
A slave who hungers to be more…….to be more, learn more, etc…
Her to sit in my lap and cuddle……...to sit in my lap and cuddle
Fuk’n divine pillow talk……………..fuk’n divine pillow talk

I could probably go on for some time about my needs and how all her wants are irrelevant so people can understand just what kind of villain I am.

Disclaimer: All thoughts and practices are owned by FukinTroll for president, a NWO corporation. Void where prohibited. YMMV

_____________________________

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Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 23

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/16/2007 8:25:48 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

Having wants fulfilled is what makes us happy, I think. At least this is true for me. And, I do find that a want left unfulfilled for long enough really does become a need, again, for me. Some people have very few wants...and some people's wants will simply fade away if ignored long enough. Since I don't personally operate like this, it's hard for me when I run into slaves likes this. It's almost a need, for good or bad, for me to make my partner happy, no matter who they are. It frustrates me when the little, special things I do have no impact. I'm sure that's some negative personality trait on my part that I just haven't looked into yet. It's propably wrapped up in my desire to be "the favorite" of every one who is close to me.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 24

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/16/2007 8:50:49 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

I just file this under compatibility. If someone has a huge fetish for being denied then you don't need to consider her wants because denying them will fulfill one of them.

But for the rest of us who want happy lives, then being constantly denied is equivalent to being constantly told that you aren't good enough, that you don't matter to him, that he doesn't give a damn if you're ever happy. Basically his way or the highway and you're just another rent a wreck.

If that kind of thing turns you on then you're compatible, if it doesn't then you aren't. Go look for someone who likes his partner and likes doing things for the people he loves. Check how often he calls his parents and siblings and see what kind of tone he uses. Pay attention to how he deals with other people who have less power than him, waitresses are a perfect example. Because if he goes into the same place a couple of times a week and is always nasty to the waitress, expect the same treatment. If he remembers her name and asks sincerely about how her family is doing, tips well, then he's probably somebody worth keeping.

(in reply to nissa)

Post #: 25

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/16/2007 9:48:33 AM

Devilslilsister

Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline

Needs should be met prior to a relationship......... a relationship should be based on mutually fullfilling wants

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i may look like i'm doing nothing, but i'm very busy at a cellular level

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 26

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/16/2007 10:46:05 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
It's almost a need, for good or bad, for me to make my partner happy, no matter who they are. It frustrates me when the little, special things I do have no impact. I'm sure that's some negative personality trait on my part that I just haven't looked into yet. It's propably wrapped up in my desire to be "the favorite" of every one who is close to me.

Master Fire

Well if it's a negative personality trait, I think I share it with you MFM.

Example: I love to cook and will often cook meals for family members just because, or to help them out when things are crazy or someone is sick. I always bake extra pies or make extra banana pudding, etc so there will be enough to send to family members because I know how much they love this stuff.

But my heart sinks when I don't even get a thank you or any acknowledgement that I did something nice for them. I say I won't do it again, but I always do. Whether it's family or relationships, I need to know I'm not just taken for granted.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 27

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/16/2007 11:03:41 AM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

I'm going to post without reading the whole thread before hand.

As with any relationship, there is a mutal need and desires involved.
If those needs and desires are not met enough, then POOF the
relationship simply comes to an end.

In the extreme cases, of Hardcore Master and Slaves. The master
desires complete control and the slave wants no control. So there
is not much issue in terms of on going wishes or desires. It's being
totally 100% satisfied.

Now for the softer side, more to the likes of Doms and Subs.
Many subs have not surrended themselves to the point of not
wanting anything. So with that said, I would have to say a wise
Dom will learn what pleases his sub, and will take control of those
things inorder to have control over the relationship. Else, if the
needs of the sub are not meet at a reasonable level. Game Over
Dom lost control, and the sub ends the relationship.

This is my take on D/s dynamics on two different levels.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 28

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/16/2007 3:10:48 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Within the D/s dynamic it is often stated that a Dominant has a responsibility to protect the fulfillment of a submissives needs.

However, it is also often stated that a Dominant is not obligated to fulfill the wants of a submissive.

First... do you agree with this line of thought?

I agree with this and will take the second line even a little further because I do not think that anyone is obligated to fulfill my wants.

quote:

secondly...

So... If a Dominant never fulfilled any wants of the submissive. Would it reasonable to expect the submissive to stay in the relationship?

My Lord, if you never fulfilled any wants of mine then there would be no relationship because one of my wants is to be in a relationship with you and transfer my authority to you.

quote:

I wonder if it is not a need to fulfill the wants of a submissive to some level

Note... I use the term submissive as a catch all phrase to identify all s-type individuals... Even that uber self-scarificing slave.

As I pondered this line of thinking... (besides the obvious that every situation is subjective)... I was considering that needs perserve our existence... but it is the fulfillment of wants that may bring a sense of happiness and fulfillment that is beyond a level of just existing. Maslow theory speaks alot to this in many ways .. but I am wondering what are your thoughts on this topic.

As you have often said to me, our wants will dictate our needs. If you want to have a relationship, even a particular type of relationship then there will be certain things that you need to do to fulfill the want you have. You want me to be happy, healthy, productive, etc. and there are certain things that you will need to do to ensure that happens.

One of the things that I have found happening over the last two years is that the focus on self has been transferred to the focus on The Relationship. For a time, I thought it had to transfer to a focus on you alone but we both agreed that can lead to an unhealthy relationship. The Relationship has almost become like a fourth entity within our dynamic. Our actions/decisions support and grow this relationship. We give and take what we need and want from the relationship.

We have become interdependent of each other because our focus is no longer on the "I" or the "You" but it is on "We". We are only as strong as our weakest link and if one of us is only surviving then the relationship is only surviving. If we want our relationship to thrive then we all three have to thrive. That requires having needs and wants met and an appropriate balance of pleasures and challenges.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 29

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/16/2007 6:07:22 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

If you read Maslov's theory beyond the part everyone remembers, you find as you fullfill the needs at one level the importance of those needs fade and the higher order "wants" begin to take on more and more importance, sometimes becomming needsin their own right. (So long as the needs bellow them remain fullfilled.)

I think the definition of needs depends on what the goal you are striving for is.
If the goal is survival then the needs are basic if the goal is self actualization then the needs are complex and more numerous.
So in deciding what an S type under my charge "needs" I have to set the goal and they have to "consent" buy into the goal.
Then I have to evealuate what is really needed to have them attain the goal I set and what is not.
If I set the goal and do not provide the needed tools and environment to actually attain the goal then I am failing in my duty.
If I set the goal and provide everything needed, but not everything wanted I have met my duty.

Of course the consent to strive towards the set goal legally can be withdrawn but that is another issue entirely.

In Leather

Archer

Post edit

If I ask you to rebuild an engine and give you a penlight, a pipe wrench, and a screwdriver, then I have failed to provide you with the needs for the goal.
If I provide you with the book all tools listed but only the most basic tool kit with which the job is possible. I have met the needs for the goal.
If I provide all those tools and $5000 more in special make the job easier tools, then I have met the needs and the wants.

< Message edited by Archer -- 3/16/2007 6:12:02 PM >

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 30

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/16/2007 7:18:59 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

As you have often said to me, our wants will dictate our needs. If you want to have a relationship, even a particular type of relationship then there will be certain things that you need to do to fulfill the want you have. You want me to be happy, healthy, productive, etc. and there are certain things that you will need to do to ensure that happens.

and here I thought you fell a sleep during that lecture.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 3/16/2007 7:19:26 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 31

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/16/2007 9:30:12 PM

rdcheekedlorelei

Posts: 3
Joined: 9/1/2005
Status: offline

It is a balancing act. this give and take... If certain needs are never met, the relationship changes, until it becomes something else, or irrecognizable...

lore

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 32

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/16/2007 10:55:44 PM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

Her to sit in my lap and cuddle……...to sit in my lap and cuddle
Fuk’n divine pillow talk……………..fuk’n divine pillow talk

These are pretty hot :-)

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
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There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to FukinTroll)

Post #: 33

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/16/2007 11:21:09 PM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

I think there is a trap that some dominants fall into, and that is to believe that he (or she) can substitute the desire to please him for all other wants and needs a sub/slave might have. IMO-this kind of relationship cannot stand the test of time. I believe there are times in ones life in which a complete relinquishment of the self can offer the potential for self-realization and growth, but I don't think it can last long term.

I don't think the Dom/me's job is to dole out wants like they are candy. Like every want is a doggie treat to be used to train a sub. It is the Dom/me's job to make the decisions as to whether a particular want is best for all involved. And the Dom/me has the final word in that matter.

Sub gets a call from a friend who's in town she hasn't seen for several years and wants to spend Saturday afternoon with her. Dom looks at his schedule, nothing planned, no important things going on, this is a special visit, sure he says, go see your friend, I'll get the housework done. No biggie.

or.... Sub gets call from a friend who's in town she hasn't seen for several years and wants to spend Saturday afternoon with her. Dom looks at schedule and it's the weekend a big client is flying in and they are invited to dinner at the house. Sub is supposed to get the house ready, make dinner and play hostess. Sorry, no go, sub will have to see friend another time.

of course the other alternative is that Dom looks at schedule and there's nothing going on, but decides to randomly flex his control and say no, just because he wants sub around to fetch a beer if he should need one. This is where an abuse of power comes in and over time will cause resentment and a break down in the relationship.

(in reply to nissa)

Post #: 34

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/17/2007 1:11:53 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
Even that uber self-scarificing slave.

Thanks for including me in this, KoM! (kidding)

Wanting "wants" fulfilled was an issue of mine for some time, untill I realized it is fine for me to want, but not fine for me to expect him to adhere to those wants. It is up to him to choose which desire of mine to fulfill. Once I let go of the expectation that he must fulfill my wants, not only was I more at peace but he gained greater pleasure in granting me more and more.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 35

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/17/2007 6:33:12 AM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Within the D/s dynamic it is often stated that a Dominant has a responsibility to protect the fulfillment of a submissives needs.

However, it is also often stated that a Dominant is not obligated to fulfill the wants of a submissive.

First... do you agree with this line of thought?

secondly...

So... If a Dominant never fulfilled any wants of the submissive. Would it reasonable to expect the submissive to stay in the relationship?
I wonder if it is not a need to fulfill the wants of a submissive to some level.

Note... I use the term submissive as a catch all phrase to identify all s-type individuals... Even that uber self-scarificing slave.

As I pondered this line of thinking... (besides the obvious that every situation is subjective)... I was considering that needs perserve our existence... but it is the fulfillment of wants that may bring a sense of happiness and fulfillment that is beyond a level of just existing. Maslow theory speaks alot to this in many ways .. but I am wondering what are your thoughts on this topic.

I get all my needs met and a good chunk of my wants...the big wants. He fufills them for entirely selfish reasons, they make me beholden to him, they create beliefs over time about how no place would be better for me( no matter what he asks or demands of me). They are done methodically and in ways that will have the greatest impact on my psyche. Primarily he does things for my offspring and provides him things I never could, making me even more beholden to him and tied to him. It is a simple issue for me of "obey me and good things will happen for you both, disobey me and they won't". My son goes to karate, hockey, golfs, travels, lives in beautiful home on the beach, we have the best of everything..so he meets lots of my wants..but always on his terms and they come with a hefty price tag for me..of course he knows I'll pay anything now to keep being his and keep the life he gives us. So yes I think wise owners meets wants and needs...just that they are met on his terms and often used to his own advantage.

< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 3/17/2007 6:34:10 AM >

_____________________________

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~Ron and Hup

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 36

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/17/2007 7:31:37 AM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline

I did not read the entire thread so if what I post is redundant, I apologize.

It is my opinion that wants should indeed be met; however, I think it is much easier to supply the wants of a person who wants the same things that you want to offer. Finding the "right" submissive is key. If you are not into SM and they are, it will be quite difficult for you to give them the pain they seek. If you dislike role play, and they want you to be their Daddy/Mommy/Doctor, you will probably not give them what they want, and the list goes on. However, if you do enjoy SM and they want their asses to be reddened (amongst other things) then it would be quite easy to give them not only what they need, but what they crave or want. Again, the key is finding a person whose wants match what you want to provide.

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

Post #: 37

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/17/2007 7:45:25 AM

raevnn

Posts: 152
Status: offline

As human beings we are driven to *be* something, usually that something is 'happy.'

I 'need' more than a healthy vanilla relationship can provide me to be happy or I would not be in the sort of relationship I am in. If I am not enslaved, if my owner does not master me, if I am not allowed to serve and please him, if there is no sex and no bdsm, if I am not allowed to play and be little at times, if I am not guided, then why one earth would I bother to be in this sort of relationship? I could be in a vanilla marriage and get my basic 'needs' met... but I'm not, because I 'need' more than shelter and food and talk about the weather (just my experience with vanilla relationships - I'm quite sure there are happilly married folks all over the place).

Thankfully, my owner 'needs' more than the basics too. :)

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 38

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/17/2007 9:08:47 AM

curiouslyseeking

Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline

I was very blessed to be under the Mentorship of a very wise Master on my journey and this is a topic that came up on several occasions and this is how it was explained to me. (Reader's Digest version)

Considered a building block of physcology from an analytic viewpoint your needs can be broken down into three groups - physical (food, drink and sex etc), emotional and spiritual. Further you need to identify needs as opposed to wants.. Once you do this then you need to identify what is needed in each group to survive first (varies slightly but common to most) and then what is needed to grow (varies per individual) and finally what is needed to prosper (hardest group to identify). But once identified you can then go about attaining those things needed and further it helps you keep things in perspective.

Without identifying things, groups become blurred and the difference between real needs and wants is hard to see.

< Message edited by curiouslyseeking -- 3/17/2007 9:10:50 AM >

_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"

(in reply to nissa)

Post #: 39

RE: Wants are Wants till they become Needs???!!! - 3/17/2007 12:02:11 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Within the D/s dynamic it is often stated that a Dominant has a responsibility to protect the fulfillment of a submissives needs.

However, it is also often stated that a Dominant is not obligated to fulfill the wants of a submissive.

First... do you agree with this line of thought?

secondly...

So... If a Dominant never fulfilled any wants of the submissive. Would it reasonable to expect the submissive to stay in the relationship?
I wonder if it is not a need to fulfill the wants of a submissive to some level.

Note... I use the term submissive as a catch all phrase to identify all s-type individuals... Even that uber self-scarificing slave.

As I pondered this line of thinking... (besides the obvious that every situation is subjective)... I was considering that needs perserve our existence... but it is the fulfillment of wants that may bring a sense of happiness and fulfillment that is beyond a level of just existing. Maslow theory speaks alot to this in many ways .. but I am wondering what are your thoughts on this topic.

Very good question KoM. I will address the sub/slaves needs first. Shelter, food, blah blah blah… As I have stated before his/her wants are irrelevant to the dynamic. Me indulging wants is just window dressing and tools to the dynamic. Now that that is out of the way I will get strait to her wants vs my needs.

I need………………………………..she wants
To Dominate………………………...to submit
To pull her hair……………………...her hair pulled
To treat her like a slut occasionally…to be a slut occasionally
A great helpmate…………………….to be a great helpmate
An intellectual slave………………...to be respected as an intellectual
A slave who hungers to be more…….to be more, learn more, etc…
Her to sit in my lap and cuddle……...to sit in my lap and cuddle
Fuk’n divine pillow talk……………..fuk’n divine pillow talk

I could probably go on for some time about my needs and how all her wants are irrelevant so people can understand just what kind of villain I am.

Disclaimer: All thoughts and practices are owned by FukinTroll for president, a NWO corporation. Void where prohibited. YMMV

I agree with the line of thinking of Mr. Troll.

I am looking for that ideal partner where their submission to me and fulfillment of my wants is fulfilling their wants. The relationship, to me, at least is supposed to be symbiotic in a way.

This is why I find the concept of "negotiation" in power based relationships to be a bit on the peculiar side.

_____________________________

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The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to FukinTroll)

Post #: 40

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