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RE: Collars for protection - 4/1/2007 7:56:17 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

and you know what, i cant believe i didnt remember this....

one of my best friends is coming out to fetish night with me. she is pretty vanilla but extremely aware and accepting of the lifestyle i lead. i invited her coz the theme she would love, and to be honest, !!! the thought of offering her a collar [and leash even] to wear with me and D to make her feel more secure in her surroundings definiately crossed my mind....

.... but then i remembered i am about the most insecure person in the world in new surroundings and she most likely does not suffer like me, hahaha.

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 21

RE: Collars for protection - 4/1/2007 8:05:47 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

Is she a submissive? If she is just curious and not identifying as anything she probably would not feel as though she had a reason to wear one.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 22

RE: Collars for protection - 4/1/2007 8:13:47 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Is she a submissive? If she is just curious and not identifying as anything she probably would not feel as though she had a reason to wear one.

she is submissive by nature, but in the way of that she is really old fashioned. she would understand the implications of the protection it could offer, not used for the submissive nature it would publicly advertise. this is not something i would offer just any girl i brought with me. this is my best friend and i know her very well to make such a bold statement. i was trying to emphasize my previous post on the point of a sense of security in an unknown world to her, and a feeling of protection from what are going to be very prying eyes [she is a renaissance beauty] to have a collar and a Dominant [mine] looking out for her well being. i guess if you are overtly confidant this is a hard concept to understand.

< Message edited by mixielicous -- 4/1/2007 8:14:42 AM >

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 23

RE: Collars for protection - 4/1/2007 9:12:59 AM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: simplyangelic1

Just exactly what are collars of protection supposed to protect submissives from? If you aren't capable of making good choices and distiguishing good from bad, how do you know that your "Protector" has your best interest at heart? Or is it better for a submissive to talk to as many people as possible and ask as many questions as possible to learn what to look for in a potential Dominant so they can trust their own instincts?

I definitely agree with the underlying points of these questions, I've just never understood the point of protection collars. To me it speaks volumes about the submissives capacities and personal levels of self-esteem.

While I get that people may feel uncomfortable or unsure in new situations (hell the first few times I went to any BDSM events my knees literally shaked), I think its worthwhile to work through it, learn the lay of the land, and actually verbalize the word no (its no different than saying no to a guy in a bar, supermarket, or anywhere else). And then the more they go to events, figure out themselves, and know that they can figure out whether they are interested in someone themselves (and able to say no when they aren't) I think the more confident anyone becomes.

But really I think everyone is unsure in new situations, even dominants. I don't understand why submissives would need a protector. To me, I'd be offended if someone offered or suggested it to me.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to simplyangelic1)

Post #: 24

RE: Collars for protection - 4/1/2007 9:19:22 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I am a pretty confident person, but would appreciate the opportunity to be able to get familiar with the scene and not have to deal with having people come on to me if I was new. I know how new meat is viewed in ANY group of people. Extroversion and confidence does not necessarily mean a desire to meet people right away. I was just curious if the friend identified as a submissive.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 25

RE: Collars for protection - 4/1/2007 9:23:44 AM

MasterHyde

Posts: 127
Joined: 4/10/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

Some people are simply nervous when going into a group...and they really don't know what's proper behavior on the part of someone else towards them. In this case, a collar of protection from a friend is very helpful. In fact, the Fem Dom group that I helped found had a House Collar program. Those who wanted one could wear one. If they did, if anyone wanted to do anything more than talk to them, the interested party had to come through the Protector (an officer of the group). If the person wearing the collar didn't want to play, it was the Protector who said no for them...saying "no" to a Dominant can be hard for new submissives. If the person did want to play, the Protector helped negotiate the scene and also acted as a personal DM, if needed. Many, many new people took advantage of this and it went a long way to make a lot of newbies who had never done anything offline be comfortable pursuing their desires.

Another example of a good thing, done for a good reason, that actually helps people in this lifestyle. Unfortunately, there are many unscrupulous people who take good things like this and use them for their own personal gain. Collars of protection, mentors, and guardians are all examples of good ideas that got a bad reputation because so many selfish, immature or downright sinister people abused them. I always go back to this. The biggest, most important choice you can make when you enter this lifestyle is not whether to be a slave or a submissive, or how much to trust someone. It's WHO you trust. Sadly, there are few people who can really be trusted to be there for you without putting their own agenda first and foremost. If their agenda doesn't mesh nicely with your best interests, look out. Having a mentor or a collar of protection in that situation can be a huge headache, or worse.

_____________________________

Master Hyde
A self-righteous, poly, dominant, possessive control freak with strong paternal tendencies and a sadistic inner child

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 26

RE: Collars for protection - 4/1/2007 9:24:18 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I am a pretty confident person, but would appreciate the opportunity to be able to get familiar with the scene and not have to deal with having people come on to me if I was new. I know how new meat is viewed in ANY group of people. Extroversion and confidence does not necessarily mean a desire to meet people right away. I was just curious if the friend identified as a submissive.

oh.... ok then! i am sorry i am used to reading ... not abrasive posts, but ones on the defense, if you know what i mean? i of course mean not to offend, you are just a personality i recognize as ..... strong, and usually disagree with me, LOL!!

but yea, the reason we get along so well is we are both "old fashioned" in the ways of "good housekeeping 1955 wife" you know? she is not outright "submissive" maybe b/c she believes it has to go hand and hand with a kink of some kind..... maybe i should discuss this further with her .....

.... muttering walks away....

hehe

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 27

RE: Collars for protection - 4/1/2007 9:32:45 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

oh.... ok then! i am sorry i am used to reading ... not abrasive posts, but ones on the defense, if you know what i mean? i of course mean not to offend, you are just a personality i recognize as ..... strong, and usually disagree with me, LOL!!

I do have a strong personality, but I am also very tolerant for the most part

I find one thing to be pretty common, people read message boards based upon who they are, not what is actually written there. I have found 90% of what people write that annoyed me or made me defensive was about me, not them. Then there are the 10% of posts that are truly snarky assholes that are trying to be hurtful... one thing I never am, intentionally hurtful. I can disagree without being personal about it.

My quote says it pretty well..

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/1/2007 9:33:09 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 28

RE: Collars for protection - 4/1/2007 11:20:15 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I have a problem with them because it lets people not stand up for themselves and view collars as a way to escape from personal responsibility and accountability AND provides a false sense of security.

99 times out of 100 nothing bad happens either way. The sub feels happy, no one treats her badly, and it all ends just fine. On the other hand, the sub might think that no one treated her badly because of the collar when, in fact, it's just because most people are normal fine people and she didn't need the freakin collar to start with.

And there's also the occasional idiot rude obnoxious sub who uses their collar as a shield against their behavior- telling people to "run to their protector" if they don't like how she behaves and someone who literally REFUSES to be personally accountable.

Sadly, the type of person who would "protect" this sort of sub is just the sort of dumbass who would charge in guns blazing saying "Who's insulted my dear little buttercup?" and the whole thing just becomes a tragic comedy.

As always, the collar of protection is, in itself, nothing bad, and a fair enough idea. But how it's used almost always is ridiculous AND perpetuates the stereotype that subs are weak and need protection.

The next time someone asks why we need threads like "I'm a STRONG sub!" I'll point them here. UNtil we have people who stop thinking they need extra protection solely due to their orientation in the scene, we need people on the other end shouting how they don't need any extra protection at all.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 29

RE: Collars for protection - 4/1/2007 11:31:28 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The next time someone asks why we need threads like "I'm a STRONG sub!" I'll point them here. UNtil we have people who stop thinking they need extra protection solely due to their orientation in the scene, we need people on the other end shouting how they don't need any extra protection at all.

i would not limit the "protection" i seek to the scene only. i would feel the same way if i walked into an ordinary beer bar. i am HIGHLY intimidated by men, thats just the way i am [not as much though when i am single]. but actually having the opportunity to BE protected [false of a sense as it may be] i will embrace. D will extend His protection to me in any case if needed. i think the false security in the end will lead to a stronger nature, because if the girl is at all observant, she will she that the protection she sought was not as elusive as she thought.... the self confidence, filtering system, what ever she may use it [the collar] for, i believe if utilized correctly will give a sense of self, place and awareness.

of course, there are some where weakness, frail unable to manage woman is their thing, so to speak. - me for example my shyness is perpetuated in public with posture collars that go right over my mouth, so i couldnt speak even if i wanted to

anyways i digress, the point i was trying to make, my need for protection does not stem from my status in the scene, it just stems from ME, and who i am as a person; not who i am within a group.

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 30

RE: Collars for protection - 4/1/2007 12:55:59 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

quote:

ORIGINAL: simplyangelic1

Just exactly what are collars of protection supposed to protect submissives from?
Appearently themselves.

quote:

If you aren't capable of making good choices and distiguishing good from bad, how do you know that your "Protector" has your best interest at heart?
A leap of faith on her part and some really sly talk on his.

quote:

Or is it better for a submissive to talk to as many people as possible and ask as many questions as possible to learn what to look for in a potential Dominant so they can trust their own instincts?
By jove, I think you may be on to something there.

DITTO

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

Post #: 31

RE: Collars for protection - 4/3/2007 3:43:34 PM

ScreamerGirl

Posts: 65
Joined: 1/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I have a problem with them because it lets people not stand up for themselves and view collars as a way to escape from personal responsibility and accountability AND provides a false sense of security.

Yup yup yup, just what LA said.

I've learned my lessons in the scene the hard way, but I damn well learned them. If someone is "saving you from yourself" you aren't going to learn anything.

Intuition. Common sense. Safety precautions. A healthy dose of self-esteem and some "learn when to say when to trusting too much" is in order, always.

_____________________________

~Screamer~

Verbosities

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 32

RE: Collars for protection - 4/3/2007 3:58:54 PM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: simplyangelic1

Just exactly what are collars of protection supposed to protect submissives from?

Hickeys? Vampires perhaps?

~stef

That's silly. Fleas.

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 33

RE: Collars for protection - 4/3/2007 5:11:26 PM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!

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It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
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Flobots

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 34

RE: Collars for protection - 4/3/2007 5:37:35 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

Used to choose someone for you, bad idea. But if you're curious about going out to a play party for the first time or two, yet also nervous I would see nothing wrong in asking for one from a trusted friend. This way a shy person might not feel so overwhelmed.

(in reply to dawntreader)

Post #: 35

RE: Collars for protection - 4/3/2007 5:49:52 PM

Elegant

Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline

I wrote the following almost 2 years ago..but it still expresses true my thoughts on this matter.

~~~~~

SOMEONE TO WATCH OVER ME?
(note: In this commentary the terms slave/submissive/bottom are used interchangeably in most cases as are the terms Dominant/Top/Master and him/her. The comments here are opinions and not law)

So many people have misconstrued concepts of Protection Collars and Protectors. Definitions are varied and numerous.

~”This particular collar is worn by new submissive at various events to show that she is under the protection of a Dominant. All approaches to the submissive wearing this collar should be made through the Dominant whose protection she is under. This is a temporary collar that it is normally returned after the event has adjourned.” http://www.leathernroses.com/generalbdsm/thecollarlc.htm

~”[A protection collar] is given when an individual feels that he or she is in need of protection. Normally the slave/sub will choose a respected Dominant that they are familiar with and ask him or her to provide this service for them. The Dominant chosen will be the contact person for anyone interested in the slave/sub and is normally present at any meetings, or activities the slave/sub will be participating in, they may also be involved in any negotiations and or formal arrangements between the slave/sub and a Dominant.” http://luna.kinkygroups.com/leaders/Norische/collars.php

~ “Protection collars- these are what they sound like. A dominant has placed you under their protection. You are not committed to the dominant but you may play from time to time and they are often teaching you and guiding you. The dominant takes an active interest in finding and approving other dominants for you. You often see these more on female subs then men and in public lifestyle forums or clubs. Some Doms use this as a way of creating a small harem of novices and are really not protecting anything but their ability to get laid often.” http://www.maitresseregine.com/ask.html

Why would someone need a ‘protector’? Is a slave/submissive/bottom not able to make common sense decisions herself? Are slaves all foolish, weak and incapable of saying ‘no’? This is a stereotype and a bad one at that. Most slaves I know are capable human beings who can function on their own quite well. Slaves may prefer to be in the service of others but this does not mean they need a ‘protector’ if not in a relationship or if on their own for a specific occasion.

It often seems that Dominants/Tops (and even some slaves) think that a slave are lacking in the ability to make decisions and be responsible and accountable for their own actions. This is far from the truth in most cases. Unfortunately some Dominants use the concept of ‘Protection’ as a way of creating a family of slaves and submissives or as an outlet for their desire to control. This is often like asking the wolf to protect the sheep. Some Dominants even use the ‘protector’ label as an underhanded step towards ownership.

Also unfortunate is that some submissives also use ‘protection’ as a crutch. If someone is not capable of handling their own negotiations and conduct then perhaps they should not be in this life. If a submissive cannot trust herself to make decisions concerning who to play with then how will she be able to trust their own decision when it is time to decide on complete submission/slavery to one?

Sometimes ‘protection’ is mistaken for mentoring. Talking about the lifestyle, sharing experiences, encouraging patience, providing feedback and guidance and offering suggestions is mentoring. Taking this to a level of decision making for someone else under the guise of ‘protection’ and this is now a power-exchange and there is probably a hidden agenda.

If a submissive feel the need for protection while at a play party then this should be more along the duties of a private, unobtrusive bodyguard. The guard/protector is not there to tell the submissive how to act or what to do or where to go. The guard/protector does not need to approve of anyone the submissive is speaking with or wanting to play with. The guard/protector is not there to negotiate with potential play partners for the submissive. The guard/protector is there in case something happens and the submissive needs help. This type of protection can be a casual relationship with a trusted friend or knowledgeable community associate (dominant or submissive) and does not have to be the same person for every event and every occasion. The guard/protector does not need to be identified to others if this is what the submissive desires and the submissive does not need to wear a label announcing to the world that they have help if needed. These guard/protectors can often be called friends.

Copyright July 2005

_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 36

RE: Collars for protection - 4/3/2007 5:54:16 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

These guard/protectors can often be called friends.

FRIENDS???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my god what a novel concept!!!!

I wonder if this will catch on.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Elegant)

Post #: 37

RE: Collars for protection - 4/3/2007 5:55:20 PM

Elegant

Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

FRIENDS???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

my god what novel concept!!!!

I wonder if this will catch on.

Only if called 'Master Friend'....grin

_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 38

RE: Collars for protection - 4/3/2007 6:02:05 PM

leakylee

Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

~ “Protection collars- these are what they sound like. A dominant has placed you under their protection. You are not committed to the dominant but you may play from time to time and they are often teaching you and guiding you. The dominant takes an active interest in finding and approving other dominants for you. You often see these more on female subs then men and in public lifestyle forums or clubs. Some Doms use this as a way of creating a small harem of novices and are really not protecting anything but their ability to get laid often.” http://www.maitresseregine.com/ask.html

This was the arrangement that I had with a friend of mine after my release from my owner. I was an absolute wreak. With so much of the control, structure, and flow of my world fried, my fucntioning level was shot. Mentally and emotionally I was in a slight shocked state. But an arrangment like this put just enough control into a freind's hands to help get me back to myself.

It was a huge help for me. It got me through a very rough time. It is something that I am still grateful for.

love and light
lee

_____________________________

I am so not right, that I left..

(in reply to Elegant)

Post #: 39

RE: Collars for protection - 4/3/2007 6:02:59 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

Only if called 'Master Friend'....grin

oooooohhhhhhh that's ok then.... I was afraid that this movement was going to stop me from getting those easy scores under the guise of protecting these plums from the vultures out there.....

You know this 'Master Friend' thing could a nice approach to more easy scores....

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Elegant)

Post #: 40

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