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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 10:30:45 AM   
PONYSEEKER


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluebird

I know you asked this in the "Master" forum, but for a female perspective - I generally dislike it unless in a very specific roleplay situation.  A bit of pleading is ok, but abject groveling - no, it is a turnoff.  Be tough, and take it like a man. 


As a Master I kind of like her point of view and wish more subs shared it. I believe goveling has its place but a very specific place in humilliation.  When done to often it looses its effect however I think it makes a wonderful mind fuck if they know something is comming up days in advance and they have fear that is based on the unknown so to
speak ....  

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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 11:16:03 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		It's hot when I tell them to do it for me.

Its...somewhat tolerable in a very mild context to show that they really want something.

Its irritable when its done to try and change a decision I have already made and something I have put a stop to really fast. Nails on a chalkboard irritable for me.



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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 12:28:59 PM   
sublizzie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Its irritable when its done to try and change a decision I have already made and something I have put a stop to really fast. Nails on a chalkboard irritable for me.


To me that makes sense. Playful groveling would be much different from manipulative groveling. Kind of like when my UMs were little. I hate whining so my UMs learned quickly not to whine. It didn't get them anything at all. If they came to me and explained why they wanted something then I would think about it. Continued arguing and whining about it just got them an automatic "no". I don't see why groveling in this context would be any different.

That said, I don't see myself as one who would grovel unless it was part of a play situation. I have too much respect for the Dominants I spend that kind of time with, and myself, to do something so infantile like that.

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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 12:49:22 PM   
puella


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Status: offline 		Come on then.... isn't it time you ante'd up!?

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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 1:30:04 PM   
OedipusRexIt


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Status: offline 		fair enough...

I really don't care for it.  I don't grok the desire for it on either side.

All those who enjoy grovelling and being grovelled to, enjoy!  For me, a complete and major turn-off.  It's so rote, so automatically given by so many, it ceases to have positive meaning for me.

And I don't need it to confirm my position.  I don't have any doubts that require shoring up that way.



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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 1:45:36 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		I despise groveling.  I find it humiliating.  I would probably go without before I would choose to ask a second or third time on my own.  Sometimes, it amuses him to push me to the point where I have to give up and beg for something to stop.

The bottom line in my opinion is to stop and think, 'Am I being annoying when I do this?'  and going from there.


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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 3:06:03 PM   
FelinePersuasion


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Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not a Master, but from my veiwpoint I do not grovel. I don't beg either. It's not something I find sexy, quite the opisit I end up feeling stupid the few times he's demanded I beg, I am just not good at it, and it comes out soooooooooo fake.

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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 3:54:20 PM   
Kinkypupper


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Status: offline 		only if its a "game" in a scene


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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 6:17:41 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OedipusRexIt

I can appreciate all points of view, but wonder most what Doms will say.

...still biting my tongue.


If my Master felt it worth his while to post to the boards, he would say he enjoys when his slut strips herself of all pride and ego and lays prostrate on the floor, worshipping his feet in a humiliating grovel; not at all to ask or beg anything of him, but to give him reverence and adoration.  When his slave does this, it is a pure act of servility, as she accepts all things from him, even the most difficult, and is grateful for all he gives her, even when it is a mere scrap.

And when he has enjoyed this to his liking, he will use her as he pleases, and she will be grateful.

But since he does not feel it is worth his while to post to online forums, I have shared his point of view rather accurately on his behalf.

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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 6:20:11 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Status: offline 		I am curious why everyone thinks groveling means pleading, begging, or wanting something?  My understanding is entirely different, so I looked it up to be sure, and my dictionaries show entirely different meanings.

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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 6:31:21 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		I'd need your definitions of the words to express a clear opinion.
I got this definition of grovel from dictionary.com




1.
to humble oneself or act in an abject manner, as in great fear or utter servility.



2.
to lie or crawl with the face downward and the body prostrate, esp. in abject humility, fear, etc.



3.
to take pleasure in mean or base things.

Using definition two, I like crawling and worming along the ground, and enjoy using it as part of humiliation play. To make someone crawl to my feet as part of a chance to ask for something imparts to them relative value. When they see in their head they are not "worthy" of asking me face to face as equals it has a heady affect on the power exchange within the request. I like that.

Using definition one, I think that when someone sets aside their own pride, and allows themself to show how desperately they wish for something. When someone comes to me in humility, not expecting a yes, or a no, but willing to bare themselves and say to me "I want this, and I know it is up to you to grant it. I want it badly enough that I will do many things just to get it, things I dislike, things the world looks down upon. I want it badly enough that I am going to set aside my fear of rejection, my fear of looking like a fool, and my fear of you seeing how badly I want it, and ask for it..." That's hot. That's powerful, and I absolutely love it. When someone is willing to grovel in this manner as part of begging for something, or as part of worship, I am floored by their courage, their love, their submission, and msot of all sincerity.

This means of course, that I like sincerity and groveling that is based on power exchange.

I do not like the monotone "begging" I hear sometimes from subs on the phone. "May I cum?" and I say "beg for it" and I get in this totally everyday voice "Please Mistress may I cum?" I'm like...5 words? That's not begging, that's rephrasing a request. That's not desperation, that's not abasing yourself before me, that's not hanging yourself on my decision. And it's infuriating. I like to then give an example of how begging might sound. That can be fun...

~E


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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 6:34:39 PM   
OedipusRexIt


Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline 		I think you have a good enough sense of the word's meaning.

It's clear it's something you enjoy.  I want anyone who does enjoy it to know that I don't begrudge you. 

In a way, it's always fascinating to me, the things that put a hole in my boat often float someone else's. 

Thanks for a serious reply.


*I'm running into a more frequent need to edit for spelling... must be age


< Message edited by OedipusRexIt -- 4/19/2007 6:35:33 PM >

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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 6:37:50 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		All three of those descriptions pertain to me, as do the ones from M-W.com:


1 : to creep with the face to the ground : CRAWL
2 a : to lie or creep with the body prostrate in token of subservience or abasement b : to abase oneself
3 : to give oneself over to what is base or unworthy
 
I do not behave in such a way in "play," however (I am sincere when I pay reverence to him), or to ask anything of him.  It seems many see these as going hand in hand; I do not.  For me it is simply a recognition of place.  He enjoys that I recognize it.

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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 6:45:50 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
I do not behave in such a way in "play," however (I am sincere when I pay reverence to him), or to ask anything of him.  It seems many see these as going hand in hand; I do not.  For me it is simply a recognition of place.  He enjoys that I recognize it.

Based on these definitions, I grovel when I worship him, I grovel when I kneel before him in silence, I grovel when I beg. I don't think groveling only has a place with begging or worship, but it certainly does go hand in hand with it.

(I don't consider worship to be play - simply a chance to devote my time specifically to how much I adore him in some specific way.)

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 7:52:38 PM   
satyrsadist


Posts: 2
Status: offline 		I agree with  OedipusRexIt on this. I do not want this behavior in an exchange. I illicit a desire to want. I channel her desire to a specifc level of need to give. It is not begging or groveling, but a sincere overwhelming desire to submit.
 
I find that she wants to please so instructively that it becomes an act of total release. Giving her the freedom to express and release her desire. This I find more enjoyable for both of us because it comes from a place of strength, not weakness.  

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RE: Groveling - 4/19/2007 10:59:20 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I am curious why everyone thinks groveling means pleading, begging, or wanting something?  My understanding is entirely different, so I looked it up to be sure, and my dictionaries show entirely different meanings.


It means being reduced to basically what you stated in your prior post, and it can be associated with begging and pleading. Is why it can be hot if used in the right sense... like my interogation scenes (this will make a nice bedtime fantasy.... weg)

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RE: Groveling - 4/20/2007 12:01:22 AM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

It means being reduced to basically what you stated in your prior post, and it can be associated with begging and pleading. Is why it can be hot if used in the right sense... like my interogation scenes (this will make a nice bedtime fantasy.... weg)


It is that reduced feeling that does it for me...which he also enjoys in me.  There are many ways to display total submission; groveling is just one...nothing like writhing across the floor on my belly, yearning to kiss his feet and placing then on my face, twisting beneath them and splaying myself open to him for the taking while whimpering adoration and love to him, and thanking him for owning me...

Yeah, I'm glad he likes that...

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RE: Groveling - 4/20/2007 1:05:39 AM   
TigerNINTails


Posts: 178
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch


I also prefer groveling to be used in a humiliation/sexual context.  For me, it only serves to seal their fate. The imagery this statement brings to mind is SIMPLY delicious. 

Other than that, if it gets annoying, a nice big cock or ball gag with a dab of something very hot (or very nasty) shoved in the mouth can be very handy.



Indeed... I also have to agree, as I didn't articulate this aspect in my previous post, but EO said it best, really, and the description of ownedgirlie's is sublime, when it comes down to it. That sort of grovelling is to me what I see as affirming of submission, and far from annoying in our exchanges.

It's an expression of submission, and those are the sorts I encourage... While discouraging painfully those that are simply whining like a selfish child after I've given my decision.

Sometimes, when I'm calling for it, I'm calling for her submission to be declared in an indirect manner. In other times, I'm forcing her to abase herself, even as she's ready for climax, as this humiliatory act of having to beg to do something that comes natural to her actually causes it to intensify.

Sometimes, her best grovels (though till this time, I've never called them this) are when she, of her own accord, crawls to me, kissing my boots, feet, legs and then purr to me as she rolls her hips, trying to show me her submission and desire without speaking a word...

She isn't asking for anything either, but invariably, it attracts my attention. So maybe she is getting what she wants after all... lol.

As for those that annoy me... Indeed something nasty or hot spread onto something that is locked into the mouth, would go miles to shutting the brat up...      

Any sort of gag that stops the whining, please! lol... I can't stand whiners. I'm so glad my girl isn't.

She gets this kinda shameful, shy, almost whine and demeanor when she feels like she's upset me though... But I don't call that grovelling either... or begging, so I guess it's out of place here, though it seemed to flow to that.

Peace.

Tora


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RE: Groveling - 4/21/2007 7:12:48 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Groveling, ick! But begging he likes. He likes knowing I'm desperate for something, especially sexual. But he finds it cute if we're out and I beg him to please stop at the ice cream store or something innocuous like that. He's been known to laugh and finally pause in a project because he'll work all day without eating and I eventually give in and beg that we can stop for lunch.

But for those of you who dislike it normally but do like it sexually I have a question. Don't you find that by normally prohibiting it you are teaching your subs never to do so? Or do you explicitly encourage it sexually so that they learn when it is acceptable? Because if I were getting contradictory responses I wouldn't ever do it. I hate it when sometimes things get a good response yet the next day the same action gets a bad response.

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RE: Groveling - 4/21/2007 8:28:41 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

But for those of you who dislike it normally but do like it sexually I have a question. Don't you find that by normally prohibiting it you are teaching your subs never to do so? Or do you explicitly encourage it sexually so that they learn when it is acceptable? Because if I were getting contradictory responses I wouldn't ever do it. I hate it when sometimes things get a good response yet the next day the same action gets a bad response.


My Master's desires and preferences are very clear to me.  The only thing I might beg for is an orgasm, or to serve him.  I am welcome to grovel in reverence to him at any time, unless he tells me otherwise.  If he doesn't want it, he will simply stop me.  It is not a sexual thing for us, however, it is simply a connection we engage in.

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