RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world."

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 9:01:29 PM

minnetar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

The African nations have the capacity to take care of Darfur on their own. Africa showed us how they appreciate our help during the 1990s in Somalia.

so you will accept that as innocents are being killed in the numbers they are?

minnetar

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 9:25:24 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

lol jumping up and down - why does everyone want to ignore Darfur? This is the situation in the UN and in the US. How much genocide needs to happen for us to care or is it basically about racism and the country it is happening in?

minnetar

Minnetar, I don't want my Troops in Iraq, I didn't want them in Kosovo, Bosnia or in S. Korea for *54* years now!
I think we need to get our Troops out of most countries that they're in, not put them in more!
All these people who don't want us in Iraq now want us in Darfur?
Sounds like the lefties are going Hawk.
You simply cannot blame the U.S. for everything that happens in the world. We *really aren't* the world's policeman!
I'm going to start blaming Europe for what is happening in Darfur.
See how they like it.
And where are all the African countries to help?
And please don't tell me they're "poor", they've managed to suck a hundred or two billions of dollars/ euros out of the West in the last few decades. And last year they had all their "debts" "forgiven."
If you were walking down the street and a bar room fight spilled out onto the sidewalk would you go over and get involved in it?
I wouldn't.

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Post #: 62

RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 9:25:30 PM

mcbride

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quote:

it's not just Bush that has contempt for "Kyoto" it's almost all Americans that do, yours truly included. It was voted down in the U.S. Senate by 99-0 I believe.

Not even close, popeye. Ya gotta stop believing that White House agitprop.
After reneging on a campaign pledge to regulate carbon dioxide emissions from power plants, Bush started implying the Senate had voted Kyoto down.
In fact, the Senate has never voted on Kyoto.
It did, before there was a Kyoto agreement, pass the non-binding Byrd-Hagel resolution, which was so broad that even strongly pro-Kyoto senators like John Kerry voted for it.

Sláinte.

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Post #: 63

RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 9:28:33 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

The African nations have the capacity to take care of Darfur on their own. Africa showed us how they appreciate our help during the 1990s in Somalia.

so you will accept that as innocents are being killed in the numbers they are?

minnetar

Minnetar, you're asking the wrong people the wrong questions.
Go onto an African site and ask them.
I'm retired military and I know a little about how things run, but hey, if you're feeling tough pick up a rifle and you go.

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Post #: 64

RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 9:43:48 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
i am in total shock in regards to that statistic - is there any other site to back that up?

minn,

Don't buy it whole hog.

Look up non-governmental giving as well, not simply tax monies spent.

You might get a different idea.

FirmKY

Indeed.

Previous posters failed to mention one other poignant statistic: American citizens give more to charity and world causes per capita than any other group on Earth.

While the US Govt., like so many others worldwide, work to find ways to pay their bills at home while STILL finding ways to help others worldwide (and it should be noted that, even while US percentages are somewhat lower than other countries...our actual dollars given overwhelm the next 15 highest governments combined), we're still, both individually and combined, the most generous nation on the planet.

< Message edited by Griswold -- 4/28/2007 9:55:55 PM >

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 9:57:24 PM

Sinergy

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The problem I have with doing anything in Darfur, a tragedy that I agree is extremely horrible, is that we here in the United States have any number of issues which need to be correct.

New Orleans needs to be rebuilt.
Air quality in most of Texas needs to be addressed.
The infrastructure of our country has been ignored for years and years.
I could go on.

On a note related to this issue. When Kobe was levelled by an earthquake, the first emergency response teams on the ground doing anything were from the United States and Canada. When Northridge was levelled by an earthquake a few years prior to that, the Japanese wandered over and explained to the US that we were doing it all wrong and it would never happen in Japan. The Japanese looked at Kobe and went "It will never go wrong." The United States looked at Northridge and said "When that breaks, what are we going to do about it?"

These are the sorts of things that I think make America great. When there is a problem, we are more than willing (in most cases) to send our people and our money over there to fix the problem. While there are exceptions, I really cannot remember the last time the United Arab Emirates (for example) sent emergency response teams to the scene of a worldwide emergency.

While a bunch of ignorant (or criminal) cretins elected AnencephalyBoy and his retard posse to control both houses of Congress, I really hope they are not representative of the American spirit and American Ideals. To me, this is a wonderful country and a shining example for how people can live together and build a brighter future.

On the other hand, I was born and raised in California so what the hell do I know.

Sinergy

_____________________________

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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Post #: 66

RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 10:10:24 PM

minnetar

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Sinergy we have acted in so many other countries then why not the Sudan?

minnetar

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 10:13:35 PM

NeedToUseYou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

quote:

ORIGINAL: selfbnd411

The African nations have the capacity to take care of Darfur on their own. Africa showed us how they appreciate our help during the 1990s in Somalia.

so you will accept that as innocents are being killed in the numbers they are?

minnetar

Didn't we just invade a Islamic country, and remove the government and replace it. Wasn't that leader responsible for attempted genocide, government sanctioned rape, murder, torture. Isn't that country fighting us to this day. Aren't we getting ready to begin pulling out of that country?

And after that we are supposed to go to another Islamic country, install a new government, and maintain order, while destroying the current factions, and the new ones that will pop up because they see us as invaders?

The cause may be more noble and forth right than Iraq but the result will be the same. Long occupation, Billions of dollars, and more body bags. I doubt the US will be invading any other countries for a while if we bail out of Iraq.

It's not racist, it's the US population is tired of war. At least I don't know anyone in favor of more conflict.

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 10:14:22 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

Sinergy we have acted in so many other countries then why not the Sudan?

minnetar

Ask AnencephalyBoy and his posse.

I imagine the answer is (which they wont want to give you) is because they have tied up our national economy in a stupid attempt to invade and conquer Iraq.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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Post #: 69

RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 10:18:41 PM

lockedaway

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Minnetar, national interest do we have that will be served by getting involved in the Sudan? We tried to help in Somalia and we did a decent enough job till our former hillbilly President got us involved in that snatch and grab mission in Mogadeishu. Nope...the American public would not stand for us to get involved in the Sudan...but why should we, national interest wise??

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 10:20:25 PM

popeye1250

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Sinergy, agreed, we've done way more than our share.
And, we're broke.
Funny, when Clinton made it known that Troops would be sent to Bosnia/ Kosovo the News interviewed one old man and asked him what he thought and he said; "wonderful, the Americans are comming, we're going to be rich!"
That's the problem, when we send Troops anywhere people then expect us to build schools, housing, municipal buildings, hospitals, pouring in money hand over fist then a year later they expect us to start taking in "refugees" "asylum seekers", immigrants, all of which the Taxpayers have to pay for!
I (really) don't think those who want us to send Troops to Darfur would be "happy" if we sent Troops in, killed all the bad guys in (one week) and then left the next week. Lock, stock and barrell.
(Then) we'd be the bad guys for not "doing anything" about a. their poverty, b. housing, c. education, d. healthcare needs, e. all of the above or any combination of the above.
I mean we STILL have Troops in Bosnia/ Kosovo and Clinton said we'd be there "one year!"
There's STILL 5,000 Troops there!!!
How many years now?

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 10:33:21 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

quote:

it's not just Bush that has contempt for "Kyoto" it's almost all Americans that do, yours truly included. It was voted down in the U.S. Senate by 99-0 I believe.

Not even close, popeye. Ya gotta stop believing that White House agitprop.
After reneging on a campaign pledge to regulate carbon dioxide emissions from power plants, Bush started implying the Senate had voted Kyoto down.
In fact, the Senate has never voted on Kyoto.
It did, before there was a Kyoto agreement, pass the non-binding Byrd-Hagel resolution, which was so broad that even strongly pro-Kyoto senators like John Kerry voted for it.

Sláinte.

Ok, it did or it didn't? Which one is it? You sound like Senator John "French" Kerry.

Mc Bride, and what do you think the vote would be today on Kyoto after everyone sees how WELL it is working?
You a betting man?
I'll bet you two "carbon credits" it would fail again but I don't think it would ever get to the floor to even be voted on!

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Post #: 72

RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 10:40:03 PM

lockedaway

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Kyoto was a ridiculous agreement and NO President, not even that dumbass Clinton, would have allowed it to become law. The playing field was so slanted against the U.S. it was laughable. Sure, I think if Kyoto was redone and China had to comply and Pakistan and India and all of South America, maybe then we would enter it. But to give a pass to some countries and hamper your own...well...that's just stupid.

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Post #: 73

RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 10:41:44 PM

selfbnd411

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quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar
Sinergy we have acted in so many other countries then why not the Sudan?
minnetar

We haven't gone into a country for humanitarian reasons aside from Somalia, as far as I know. We go into them for real or perceived strategic reasons.

Iraq pt 2--To protect our oil supply, eliminate a regional geopolitical threat (went sour when it turned messianic)
Afghanistan--Pursuit of terrorists
Haiti--Prevent a potential refugee exodus to the US
Kosovo--Prevent a refugee exodus to the EU
Iraq pt 1--Protect oil fields
Panama--Noriega stopped playing ball
Lebanon--Keep Syria out (disaster)
Greneda--Keep Cuba out
Vietnam--Domino Theory
Korea--Containment
WWII--If the Nazis and Japanese continued to expand, eventually we would become an island in a totalitarian world
WWI--Create a network of liberal democracies that would think like us, preventing war, and would want to trade with us

Wars are not fought for humanitarian reasons.

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 10:49:43 PM

selfbnd411

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway
We tried to help in Somalia and we did a decent enough job till our former hillbilly President got us involved in that snatch and grab mission in Mogadeishu.

Don't call George Bush a hillbilly! He got us into Somalia on December 9 1992. Clinton was not in office until January 20 1993. As a point of fact, Bush INSISTED that American troops lead the operation. Credit where credit is due.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Restore_Hope

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 10:57:03 PM

lockedaway

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Slow down, sparky. Under Bush the American forces were ONLY there to insure that supplies made it to the starving. It was CLINTON that ordered the snatch and grab.
True or False?

We did not have problems in Somalia UNTIL we tried the snatch and grab.
True of False?

The parents of those killed in the Black Hawk Down incident refused to shake hands with Bill Clinton.
True or False?

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 11:08:33 PM

WingedMercury

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Hey. The subject is "America has lost it's standing in the world". Nobody's talking about it in this forum ... you wandered!

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 11:13:36 PM

lockedaway

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Somebody asked why weren't getting involved in the Sudan. I responded but I didn't wander. No, we haven't lost our standing in the world and who gives a rat's ass how that standing is measured by other countries? THERE, I'm back on target.

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 11:15:20 PM

vield

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It is interesting that anyone thinks the US might "stop" the murder of innocents in a place like the Sudan.

That has been tried before many times by many nations, over hundreds of years. I believe that Egypt, Turkey, France, Italy, Great Britain, and Ethiopia are some countries which have been seriously involved here over the last two hundred years, and of course the situation goes back to long before that.

When the Sudan was administered as a jointly occupied land under the control of Egypt and Great Britain a degree of pacification took place in areas subject to direct observation by the occupying powers. However to achieve this, hundreds of thousands of local people were killed in the warfare needed to destroy the insane local regimes and install Anglo-Egyptian rule.

It is an unfortunate fact that one person's "innocents" who are being killed (and or all the other things that happpen to them) are the infidels, blasphemers, law breakers, traitors, enemy tribes, criminals, racial inferiors, or political threats to some of the other people in the region. To stop these people from killing (and/ or whatever) these innocents we shall need to kill a very large # of those folks. Under THEIR rules these offenders deserve everything they get.

Of course the fact that they also believe anyone dying in a "holy war" automatically achieves paradise means fear will not always be a good incentive to modify their behavior.

One thing which historically cut down the rate of killing was the slave trade. If that "bad person" had a monetary value if alive, sometimes less of them would be deliberately killed. Of course the slave trade itself was quite hazardous to the lives of it's victims too, which raised the value of the survivors. The Europeans banned the slave trade.

The thought of pulling out our troops and $$ from the rest of the world and putting them to work here is an attractive one. Cut off cheap imports from so many 3rd world places and perhaps our own production and manufacturing jobs will grow again.

However we still would need a very powerful well trained military on hand, or the rape, murder, pillaging and so forth will be right here.

_____________________________

As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

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RE: "America has lost it's standing in the world.&... - 4/28/2007 11:17:17 PM

lockedaway

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Great post!!

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