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Masterhood - 5/4/2007 9:18:28 PM

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I've recently come to find wording for what I believe it means to be a Master.

A Master is one who owns (a) slave(s). He and he alone is solely responsible for the actions of his slave, provided his slave is acting within his guidelines and under his orders. Anything a slave does is both to the responsibility and credit of the Master. This is the difference between a Master and a Dom.

I'm coming to understand the gap between a 'Master' and a 'Dom' as being larger than I've previously recognized. How the dynamic is entirely different.

A Dom guides his sub, ordering her, within predefined limits, in cases, pushing those limits. She's separate, but she's submissive. She's still responsible for her own actions.

A Master owns his slave, ordering her without limits. She's to live by his word and do his bidding. Her actions are his actions- her responsibilities become his. Should he assign her a responsibility, while she's obligated to follow in it, it is, ultimately, still his.

Ah wells. Excuse the discombobulated rant. I just recently saw a thread lately where a Dom was applauding a Domme for instilling her sub with a hard limit. It struck me as strange to no end until I considered the difference between a sub and a slave, a Dom/me and a Master/Mistress. So, here's my sharing.

I felt compelled to share this as, after considering it, I felt the type of Master/slave relationship was quite beautiful.

I'd like to note that I would consider anyone who only guides as a "Dom" and anyone who rules and takes responsiblity of the actions of a "Master". Of course, these are my definitions. If you consider yourself a "Master", but fall under "Dom" in my definition, or vice-versa, don't worry about it. You're still just the same as you were, I just catigorize differently. (A lot of senseless flame wars start over people taking offense to another's terminology. I don't want that here. No offense is intended to anyone.)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 9:22:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
A Master is one who owns (a) slave(s). He and he alone is solely responsible for the actions of his slave, provided his slave is acting within his guidelines and under his orders. Anything a slave does is both to the responsibility and credit of the Master. This is the difference between a Master and a Dom.

If that's true, then there's no point in punishing or rewarding a slave. If they have no responsibility or credit for it.

And frankly, if a slaves mother taught her how to make fabulous apple pie growing up, and the master loves the apple pie, I really don't see how it can be said it's all his responsibility for his slave being able to cook an awesome apple pie. He might be responsible for the actual MAKING of THAT pie, but that's it.

I also am not sure how this would apply in raising offspring? Would anything they do thusly be solely the responsibility of the owner?

And that doesn't list anything about a dom so I don't see anywhere it could be "different from a dom."

I dunno, I guess I tend to prefer slaves who take responsibility for their own commitments, their own actions, and I really respect the Ms relationships I've seen which operate under that dynamic.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 9:31:09 PM

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Again LA you speak so very well. Honeslty that quote or whatever seems to be just a fantasy that kind of thing can not exist just because well think of it the venilla world isnt gunna care that she is a slave to a Master if she does something they dont like they are gunna blame her... If he tells her to rob a bank and she does the police arent gunna arrest the Master they are gunna arrest the slave!!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 9:34:37 PM

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quote:

If that's true, then there's no point in punishing or rewarding a slave. If they have no responsibility or credit for it.

Punishment for disobidience, rewards for continued good service, silly.

quote:

And frankly, if a slaves mother taught her how to make fabulous apple pie growing up, and the master loves the apple pie, I really don't see how it can be said it's all his responsibility for his slave being able to cook an awesome apple pie. He might be responsible for the actual MAKING of THAT pie, but that's it.

(Bolded)

Is the slave, then, responsbile for her being able to cook an awesome apple pie? If she is his property, then this falls to the Master. (Though your wording does strike me as a bit.. confused. It sounds odd, when you use it with my idea.. then again, it sounds odd alone, too, so it's a bit deceptive.)

quote:

I also am not sure how this would apply in raising offspring? Would anything they do thusly be solely the responsibility of the owner?

Are you implying that the offspring are slaves..?

quote:

I dunno, I guess I tend to prefer slaves who take responsibility for their own commitments, their own actions,

That's fine.. just.. that isn't the full blown TPE ascept in it.. I've always considered "Master" to be the highest degree of Dom aspect and "slave" to be the highest degree of sub aspect.

Edit: Looks like my bold font didn't work the first time through. Hope this fixes it.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/4/2007 9:37:19 PM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 9:36:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Again LA you speak so very well. Honeslty that quote or whatever seems to be just a fantasy that kind of thing can not exist just because well think of it the venilla world isnt gunna care that she is a slave to a Master if she does something they dont like they are gunna blame her... If he tells her to rob a bank and she does the police arent gunna arrest the Master they are gunna arrest the slave!!!

Oh, of course the vanilla world won't recognize it. This doesn't mean you can't have it, now does it? Do you recognize yourself as a slave, despite the fact most people in the world would probably say you can't be owned, that slavery is illegal?

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 9:41:17 PM

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exactly but I also recognise that though Master takes responsability for some of my actions I take repsonsability for all of them because I made a choice to give him the power over me and there for all the comes after that choice is my responsability!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 9:45:49 PM

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That's the key difference I'm citing in the TPE view of Masterhood. I do not believe a slave gives a Master control over her- I believe she becomes his and control over her is simply a given. It's not hers to give.

Now, your point that society doesn't recognize it is valid. But, in the end, this is outside the dynamic, and not the dynamic itself. If a Master causes his slave to go to jail, for instance, she's the one that goes to jail, yes, but it's his fault. Society's just jailing the slave despite the fault being the Master's.

Note that I wouldn't think a good Master would get his slave jailed or have her perform actions which would lead to this. It being his responsbility, it's his job to make sure this doesn't happen.

Edit: Typo.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/4/2007 9:47:50 PM >

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 9:48:33 PM

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I do not think any one person's definition is going to fit everyone. Damn the world for not being black and white!

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Het-flexible

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 9:49:45 PM

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That makes no sence... Controll isnt just a given the slave at one point has to have given the controll over and thus that would be her anicial desistion that all that comes after is based and and there for makes her acountable in some way. A Master just doenst say to a random slave you are now mine Im takeing your controll.

Magik's slave

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 5/4/2007 9:52:38 PM >

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 9:56:42 PM

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

That makes no sence... Controll isnt just a given the slave at one point has to have given the controll of and thus that would be her anicial desistion that all that comes after is based and and there for makes her acountable in some way.

I'm not entirely sure if I understand this due to the typos, but..
I think you said..
"That makes no sense.. control isn't just given. The slave, at one point, has to have given the control (of herself?) and thus that would be her (initial?) (decision?) that all that comes after (her having up control) is based (on?) and (therefore?) makes her accountable, in some way." (Is this right-ish?)

To me, it's a far more romantic view for the Master to assume responsiblity. True, you can have a relationship in which the slave still has the right to refuse an order and retains responsibility for her actions. True, this could be quite a good relationship. It's just not one I would call a "Master/slave" relationship.

If you chose to call it one, that's great, you just consider it something else than I do.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 10:00:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterMischief

I do not think any one person's definition is going to fit everyone. Damn the world for not being black and white!

Hah, yeah, I just thought this was beautiful. :)

I just.. sat here, today, thinking about it, for most of the day, how my slave lives for me, that her responsiblities are things I govern as though they were my own, that she realizes she has no responsibility to anything besides following my orders.

I thought, too, how this is a strong D/s dynamic, even by the considerations of this community, and I wondered how many would find it as I do, and how many would argue against it as being too much.

(in reply to MasterMischief)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 10:01:37 PM

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I never said I had the right to say no.. what Im saying is that I gave my controll to Master period he now has controll over me, but it wasnt just a given when we met it was something I had to give up to him and I made that choise so I feel that any actions that come from that last choice I made are still my responsability in some way.

and now Master has exerted controll by telling me to stop stressing and turn the PC off.

Magik's slave

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 5/4/2007 10:02:27 PM >

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 10:13:52 PM

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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Ah, I see. Well, you just have a relationship different from what I'm talking about. I imagine there's a million different kinds out there. I'd guess more, but I don't think there's that many BDSM relationship out there. :P More, if so!

I suppose what I find beautiful in my own is that my slave gave me not only control over her, but I also have what were once her responsibilities. She is, in every sense, part of me, not her own, independent creature. Of course, she's still human, having a mind and acting within my guidelines, but, ultiamtely, anything she does falls back on me.

I feel.. it would be shallow, if I had control over her, but I wasn't fully responsible for what happened due to this control. Everything she does is under my command, afterall, should I not be fully responsible for her?

I've never felt closer to another human being. It's uplifting. It's gaining another part of your being in gaining the full aspects of another. Anything less than this extreme would seem diminished.

Does this make sense?

quote:

and now Master has exerted controll by telling me to stop stressing and turn the PC off.

Don't stress. It's a casual chat. Personally, I'm feeling quite happy, talking about and expressing the greatest beauty I've seen in this lifestyle. Just don't feel the need to defend yourself- you're not under attack. Then, I believe, you'll be more relaxed as well.

Your master made a good call. Have a good night.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 10:19:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

That's fine.. just.. that isn't the full blown TPE ascept in it.. I've always considered "Master" to be the highest degree of Dom aspect and "slave" to be the highest degree of sub aspect.

Edit: Looks like my bold font didn't work the first time through. Hope this fixes it.

That seems silly to me. I've seen enough to know that often the only difference between a slave and a submissive is what the owner chooses to call her.

Edited to Add: Not much point to being a master if some unknown dude can tell you what you have to call your girl X, Y, or Z because you X,Y, or Z kind of relationship, now is it? You'd just be subbing to another dom.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 5/4/2007 10:24:51 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 10:21:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Again LA you speak so very well. Honeslty that quote or whatever seems to be just a fantasy that kind of thing can not exist just because well think of it the venilla world isnt gunna care that she is a slave to a Master if she does something they dont like they are gunna blame her... If he tells her to rob a bank and she does the police arent gunna arrest the Master they are gunna arrest the slave!!!

Oh, of course the vanilla world won't recognize it. This doesn't mean you can't have it, now does it? Do you recognize yourself as a slave, despite the fact most people in the world would probably say you can't be owned, that slavery is illegal?

Slavery is illegal. That means that no one really owns anything and your "slave" can pick up the phone and call 911 on your ass if you beat her too hard. If you cheat and piss her off, she can also share what you two did together, possibly costing your job, child custody, friends and family.

That's the reality of what we do. If you want to really own someone and not have to deal with that, then you should consider moving.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 10:22:28 PM

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

That's the key difference I'm citing in the TPE view of Masterhood. I do not believe a slave gives a Master control over her- I believe she becomes his and control over her is simply a given. It's not hers to give.

Correction: You are citing your view of TPE of mastermood. You are not citing the end-all be-all of masterhood because it doesn't exist.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 11:12:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

That's fine.. just.. that isn't the full blown TPE ascept in it.. I've always considered "Master" to be the highest degree of Dom aspect and "slave" to be the highest degree of sub aspect.

Edit: Looks like my bold font didn't work the first time through. Hope this fixes it.

That seems silly to me. I've seen enough to know that often the only difference between a slave and a submissive is what the owner chooses to call her.

Edited to Add: Not much point to being a master if some unknown dude can tell you what you have to call your girl X, Y, or Z because you X,Y, or Z kind of relationship, now is it? You'd just be subbing to another dom.

You're entirely missing the point. I'm expressing my personal dynamic.

To your add: Didn't you read my OP? I already said I know definitions vary.. and said that this is mine. Jeeze man, read. =/

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 11:13:49 PM

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

That's the key difference I'm citing in the TPE view of Masterhood. I do not believe a slave gives a Master control over her- I believe she becomes his and control over her is simply a given. It's not hers to give.

Correction: You are citing your view of TPE of mastermood. You are not citing the end-all be-all of masterhood because it doesn't exist.

I made that clear in the OP.. No, aquatic, I'm not restating it every single possible time.
It's said. Move on.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 11:16:29 PM

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Again LA you speak so very well. Honeslty that quote or whatever seems to be just a fantasy that kind of thing can not exist just because well think of it the venilla world isnt gunna care that she is a slave to a Master if she does something they dont like they are gunna blame her... If he tells her to rob a bank and she does the police arent gunna arrest the Master they are gunna arrest the slave!!!

Oh, of course the vanilla world won't recognize it. This doesn't mean you can't have it, now does it? Do you recognize yourself as a slave, despite the fact most people in the world would probably say you can't be owned, that slavery is illegal?

Slavery is illegal. That means that no one really owns anything and your "slave" can pick up the phone and call 911 on your ass if you beat her too hard. If you cheat and piss her off, she can also share what you two did together, possibly costing your job, child custody, friends and family.

That's the reality of what we do. If you want to really own someone and not have to deal with that, then you should consider moving.

My point was that slavery is illegal already, so what difference does it make one part of the dynamic isn't reconized legally, since the rest of it isn't already?

You're.. really going off the deep end... what's your problem?

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Masterhood - 5/4/2007 11:21:36 PM

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This is the way I have always seen it. (granted my experience is a great deal more limited than others')

In a Dom/sub relationship, power/control is given over (more often than not) for the purposes of a scene or for short periods of time. Outside of that scene or period of time the people I have known to call themselves subs have often become unpleasant (in my eyes) and rather bratty. i.e. Speaking out of turn (by my definition), often acting in a loud and obnoxious way.
Now I'm not trying to say that there's anything wrong with that, as we all know there are different strokes for different folks. But it is not the way I expected my slave or the way I would expect any future slaves (that I would accept ownership of) to behave.

In a Master/slave relationship, the slave submits and offers herself up as property to the Master. Upon giving herself and everything she is to her Master, power/control over/of her actions is transfered to him alone. She becomes, in my opinion, an extention of himself and he finds pride in not only what she brings to him but what she can offer the community/party (whether it be BDSM, Gorean or otherwise) as her actions, in my opinion, do reflect on him and his training of her.
There is no point where she is allowed to become that loud obnoxious brat other than when she is permitted to have time away from the lifestyle (i.e. when she goes out with her vanilla friends or other slaves) and away from anyone that she may dishonour her Master to (i.e. another Master that her Master knows or another gathering of Goreans/BDSMers).

Just touching on the pride that can be felt in what a slave brings to the community or another gathering of people;
When myself and my slave held christmas dinner at my place she had very little time to sit and relax as she was either cooking or seeing that the needs of others were met while they were within my home. After such a successful dinner that I felt honoured myself and yes my slave (as it was a vanilla gathering and they of course gave credit to both hosts of the evening) and everyone had left, she was showered with affection and praise by myself. Had it been an utter balls up, she would have received similar praise as I would have known that despite it's failure she would have tried her damndest. The praise she received was given because she had so thoughtfully organised atleast 80% of the event herself, as it was her duty. (This relates to LA's comment on there being no point in punishing or rewarding a slave if infact what she does and how she carries herself is a representation of her Master and his training)

Well there you have it. Poorly written and more like a spillage of my brain than any kind of thought out literature, but it's the way I feel and the way I understand things in (yes I'll say it again) my less lengthy experience.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

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