quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

The definition of responsibility is the state, quality, or fact of being responsible.
 
The definiton of responsible is involving personal accountability or ability to act without guidance or superior authority.
 
If your order is "Go bake a cake", then the slave is going to act without guidance or superior authority regarding what cake to bake, what tempature to set the oven, what kind of ingredients to use, how long to bake it.

Unless you provide the guidance for all these details, then she is acting without your guidance and thus responsible for them.

If you dont give your slave guidance and direction everytime she feals the urge to use the bathroom, then she is responsible for going to the bathroom since she is making the deciision outside the scope of your guidance and authority.

I control who and what she is.  Any flaws she has are ultimately my fault- whether she had them at the time when I acquired her, which I have willingly accepted, or if she has acquired them under my rule due to my control.

She is my property.  I am responsible for her.  I will not lie to you that I can be sure that everything will always go right- maybe she's unaware of not putting tin foil in the microwave when I tell her to go heat up last night's dinner- but it is my failure in not having known her.

I feel like you're a friend telling me I'm crazy for having kids, that they're too much responsibility.  I'm telling you I know it's a lot, and I accept it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I use Windows. When Window's crashes, I dont blame myself and say I am accountabile. Its the people who designed Window's fault.

Even in the context of using actual tools, its impractical to think I am fully responsible for the failures of my tools unless I designed and built every single one of my tools.

Just likes its unrealistic to think you are fully responsible for every fault and mistake of your slave unless you provide direction and instruction for every single decision your slave would have to make that could generate a possible mistake.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

On paper, your theory looks great. But in reality, its unrealistic.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Then is she responsible for the ensuing fire?  You've already told me her actions are not your responsibility, regardless of the fact you order her.

No she isnt. But she would be responsible if there WASNT a fire because she made the decision to set the microwave for 30 seconds as opposed to 3 minutes when I didnt provide the direction and thus she made a decision of her own will.

Nor is she willfully disobeying me because I never provided an order for her to willfully disobey.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I rarely speak in these terms, but its impossible to think you can provide enough direction for a human being to operate 24/7 without at some point, acting on their own will and negating personal responsibility

Just like its unrealistic for a slave to expect that kind of direction so they dont have to act on their own will ever and never be accountable for anything.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

My slave would do as ordered.  She has accepted that she is under obligation to perform any action I order her.

One might argue that this is an illogical choice for someone to make, or that it's contradictory to the nature of a human to do so.  I would assure such an individual that common circumstance are only generalizations, as even electrons can escape from the quantum energy well of a nuetron under not altogether common circumstance.

I would further add that, in allowing her mortality to be accessable by means of our dynamic, she gains honesty and fullness in our relationship.

She is truly my property.  There's no more pushing or trying to break down barriers or limits.  We're at the end of establishing the foundation of our relationship, and we've moved onto living our lives together without limits and with a clear understanding.
This was always my goal in this lifestyle.

Once again, its solid on paper, but in reality its just not pausible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
(Edit:  More was backquoted here.  Just cutting down on space it cutting out of the backquote.)
I feel like you're a friend telling me I'm crazy for having kids, that they're too much responsibility.  I'm telling you I know it's a lot, and I accept it.

Thats not what I am saying at all.

I am saying its impossible for someone to have complete and utter control over someone 24/7 like a tool.

Because unlike the tool, the person has a will of its own that will continue to operate regardless of whether or not you are providing direction.

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I, however, do design my slave.  Windows was made my Microsoft, without your agreement to accept its bugs.

When I accepted my slave, I accepted all the problems she had as part of her.  I accepted her for everything she was.  Since then, as she's yet to be disobidient, any mistakes she makes are either due to a flaw she had that I had accepted or one she had acquired under me.

No, I'm not able to make her into a perfect, flawless person.  Yes, she'll make mistakes.  However, I have accepted that.

I hope you come to acknowlege both this and my right to have done so.

quote:



I can apprieciate you're trying to argue this point, but you're doing so from a limited thought base.  You've only been presented with the idea last night.. I can see you haven't throught through all the solutions, but this does mean they don't exist.

Continue presenting problems.  I'll answer them.

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Okay, so say you told her to microwave tin foil for three minutes at normal power.  In an actual microwave as we know them today.  You said it's not her fault.  So is it your fault?  Then, are you at fault for her action?

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

She has a mind.  Her mind is to serve me in the manner I set forward.  She does the best she can.  I teach her.  She learns.  She grows.  She is my responsibility.

I feel like you associate responsibility arbritarily to individual human beings.  This is a typical assumption made to assign concepts such as fault- one made out of ease and convinence, not accuracy.  It can not be applied to this case as this case deviates from the vanilla world in which such a concept is designed to work.

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Plausible?  It's reality.

I hope you can see this is a paper reflecting a reality, not a paper on a possible reality.

Above, you said it can't happen.  It has.  I would propose that you are at a loss for understanding how it has happened.  I am willing to explain.  Still, I hope you can see how it sounds silly to me that you're telling me my life is impossible.  I mean, to me, how much more obvious can the possiblity be?

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
She began her reply with a blantantly incorrect idea, something she misunderstood at the very core.  It is not presumptious to assume she did not understand.

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
(Edit:  More was backquoted here.  Just cutting down on space it cutting out of the backquote.)
I feel like you're a friend telling me I'm crazy for having kids, that they're too much responsibility.  I'm telling you I know it's a lot, and I accept it.

Thats not what I am saying at all.

I am saying its impossible for someone to have complete and utter control over someone 24/7 like a tool.

Because unlike the tool, the person has a will of its own that will continue to operate regardless of whether or not you are providing direction.

A "will", or, proper, a "free will", is something that I, as a Chemical Engineer and scientist, do not believe in.  We, like tools, are a physical process.  Unlike most tools, proper, we are extremely complex.  One human controlling another is prone to have far greater misunderstandings of his tool.

This great potentiental for misunderstanding in cause/effect does not excuse me from my responsibility to use her as I see fit.  Rather, I am doing so by definition.

My slave is obligated to do her best to follow my orders.  If I tell her to fly, she's going to try. But I can not fault her for a short coming she either had at the time of acquiring her or one she acquires in my rule- in other words, all.

Maybe her short coming's more mundane.  Maybe her knowledge on how to bake a cake is flawed, believing it should have a disproportionally high about of eggs in it, which messes it up somehow.  It's still a short coming she had before collaring or she acquired. It is my responsbility as I have accepted it to be such.


Edit:  Typo.

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

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ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

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ORIGINAL: IrishMist

All I can say is that LA and MadRabbit covered everything perfectly.

Yup I they said exactly what I felt and was trying to say!!
Both of you put words to what I couldnt seem to convay thanks saved me the effert!!!


Magik's slave

I would appreciate you find your own words so that I may address you.  If you are incapable or unwilling, I hope the responses to the other surfice to answer your inquaries.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
I will acknowledge that, but its not what I am debating.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

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I can apprieciate you're trying to argue this point, but you're doing so from a limited thought base.  You've only been presented with the idea last night.. I can see you haven't throught through all the solutions, but this does mean they don't exist.

Continue presenting problems.  I'll answer them.

Once again you are being arrogantly presumptious. I've been thinking about TPE vs absolute authority for quite awhile.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
The problem is your viewing this like an enginner. Sure, there is a solution to every problem. Sure, there is a WAY for you to make a human being into a tool that operates 24/7 purely based on your will. Just like there is a way for me to solve every single little problem in my kitchen.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
But I dont even try to solve every single little problem in my kitchen, because I dont have the time, energy, and resources to solve every single little problem in my kitchen on my own.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Just like I dont have the time to ensure that a slave isnt acting on her own will 24/7. Why? Because I have a job and need time for myself. The idea that you can provide every single solution to every single problem that keeps your slave operating outside of your will IS not plausible and unrealistic. At some point, human beings are going to have to operate outside your will and make decisions that they are accounable for.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Okay, so say you told her to microwave tin foil for three minutes at normal power.  In an actual microwave as we know them today.  You said it's not her fault.  So is it your fault?  Then, are you at fault for her action?

Thats not the point. The point is I didnt provide the direction to microwave it for 3 minutes which is what I am argueing. Its not the theory that is flawed, but the fact that theory rarely ever matches up to reality. The point is you cant provide ample direction to negate someone else using their own will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:


She has a mind.  Her mind is to serve me in the manner I set forward.  She does the best she can.  I teach her.  She learns.  She grows.  She is my responsibility.

I feel like you associate responsibility arbritarily to individual human beings.  This is a typical assumption made to assign concepts such as fault- one made out of ease and convinence, not accuracy.  It can not be applied to this case as this case deviates from the vanilla world in which such a concept is designed to work.

No...I am just realizing that I am not responsible for mistakes created by her using that mind and will independentally of my own.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Plausible?  It's reality.

I hope you can see this is a paper reflecting a reality, not a paper on a possible reality.

Above, you said it can't happen.  It has.  I would propose that you are at a loss for understanding how it has happened.  I am willing to explain.  Still, I hope you can see how it sounds silly to me that you're telling me my life is impossible.  I mean, to me, how much more obvious can the possiblity be?

Just like I hope you understand how silly it is for you to be claiming to living a reality where your slave is in fact a tool that doesnt operate outside the scope of your will...because that, in all everyday common sense, is impossible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
It would be like me telling you I lived a life where all I did everyday was count grains of sand on the beach. You would know thats not true because at some point I would have to stop counting grains of sands to eat/sleep/piss/shit.

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
She began her reply with a blantantly incorrect idea, something she misunderstood at the very core.  It is not presumptious to assume she did not understand.

Actually, no.  Your original post in all this was over generalized and you have since modified your language to be more limited in scope.  There are still flaws with this scope.

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
She began her reply with a blantantly incorrect idea, something she misunderstood at the very core.  It is not presumptious to assume she did not understand.

Actually, no.  Your original post in all this was over generalized and you have since modified your language to be more limited in scope.  There are still flaws with this scope.

My opening post was entirely accurate.

If I made a post, "A man can live in the universe", you would say, "Impossible!  There's no air."
I'd say, "There is on Earth."
You'd say, "You've since corrected your scope to be more limited, but thre are still flaws in it."  (i.e., he can't live in the molten core of the Earth).

I propose your logic is faulty.  A man can live in the universe- I never said he could live anywhere in it.

With the same regard, my OP was accurate.  You have failed to understand the specific scope in which it is accurate.  I've since gone about narrowing it down for you.  Do not, however, propose this means that a broader statement was inaccurate as I never claimed it was all inclusive.

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ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

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ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

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ORIGINAL: IrishMist

All I can say is that LA and MadRabbit covered everything perfectly.

Yup I they said exactly what I felt and was trying to say!!
Both of you put words to what I couldnt seem to convay thanks saved me the effert!!!


Magik's slave

I would appreciate you find your own words so that I may address you.  If you are incapable or unwilling, I hope the responses to the other surfice to answer your inquaries.

scuse me???

No need to find my own words their words did just fine and I didnt ask for you to respond I was simply agreeing with other posters..

And you should really work on not beeing so rude condisending I for one know I dont apreasiate it and Im sure others dont eather

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
She began her reply with a blantantly incorrect idea, something she misunderstood at the very core.  It is not presumptious to assume she did not understand.

Actually, no.  Your original post in all this was over generalized and you have since modified your language to be more limited in scope.  There are still flaws with this scope.

My opening post was entirely accurate.

If I made a post, "A man can live in the universe", you would say, "Impossible!  There's no air."
I'd say, "There is on Earth."
You'd say, "You've since corrected your scope to be more limited, but thre are still flaws in it."  (i.e., he can't live in the molten core of the Earth).

I propose your logic is faulty.  A man can live in the universe- I never said he could live anywhere in it.

With the same regard, my OP was accurate.  You have failed to understand the specific scope in which it is accurate.  I've since gone about narrowing it down for you.  Do not, however, propose this means that a broader statement was inaccurate as I never claimed it was all inclusive.

So basically, you failed to be specific enough to be understood easily and now you are shifting blame. Got it.

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These views are all fascinating to me. Most slaves I know never are permitted nor desire any time "away from the lifestyle"

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord


So, basically, I stated a case, assuming readers would be either understanding or able to ask for clarification in earnest.

You were aggressive and rude when a logical point is made.  Why?

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You've only been presented with the idea last night..

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

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ORIGINAL: CuriousLord


So, basically, I stated a case, assuming readers would be either understanding or able to ask for clarification in earnest.

You were aggressive and rude when a logical point is made.  Why?

You stated an opinion that was both inclusive and exclusive. I am, or at least attempting to, have you examine your opinion as I consider it illogical.

In your example, you would have failed to be clear. If you are comparing what you actually said to the universe example, then you are saying that you failed to be clear and it's our fault for not reading your mind.

I'm hardly being aggressive. I'm responding to a post that I feel like responding to. If you can not handle the responses that are not singing your praises, then perhaps you should not put yourself and your opinions in this position.

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ORIGINAL: OnlyHis

MagiksSlave,  Myself i am enjoying this whole thread or as far as i have gotten so far.  This kind of debate, as long as it stays civil, tends to make me see that there are more sides to serving, responsibilities and clearly see even more that this lifestyle has so many interesting facets to it.
Thank you LA, Curious, Rabbit and Magik for these thought provoking posts.