ElanSubdued
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Precursor.
quote:
LadyHibiscus:
Anyway, where is Elan when we need some prolixity? Politesub? Pixel?
Elan is in da house... though only very momentarily because I have an extremely busy day. :-)
Reply Proper.
sunshinemiss, LadyHibiscus, and Everyone;
Given that I'm short of time, I'll borrow some thoughts posted by others and extrapolate.
quote:
bdspirit:
If you met me in my public life, I think you would probably assume that I am a major type A, alpha male. I have been a "C-level" business executive, built 3-4 companies and am not the shrinking violet type (read aggressive, dominant, driven). Physically, I am relatively fit and enjoy time in the gym so perhaps not what you might typically envision as submissive. (snip) As a man, I find that I have a strong need to give up that control and responsibility that has been with me forever. The experience of giving total control to another, trusting that person with all that I am is both liberating and incredibly sexy and an amazing experiment in love and trust (something allot of men struggle with sometimes).
I'm glad to see this reply because the possible undercurrent is in contrast to my own view. For some, there is a notion that power (business, personal, etc), accomplishment, leadership, initiating, aggressiveness, self respect, and a whole lotta' other "power" nouns are not submissive traits. I disagree. I see these as attributes of a human being who may or may not be submissive. In my own case, I lead groups, create business plans and proposals, organize things, and initiate and I see no cognitive dissonance with my submission. These are aspects of my personality and they are skills I have. Why would I not use my skills to the benefit of my dominant? The answer is that of course I'd use these skills. Using a business org chart as a model, consider the following. All but the apex (level 0) are subordinate. Does this mean resources at level 1, 2, 3, and so on can't be effective and well accomplished because they ultimately answer to a boss? Clearly that's not the case or the expectation. In fact, as you move up to higher level leaders, I've always found their expectation is for highly skilled and effective people underneath them. Thinking from a shareholder perspective, the entire management team is subordinate. :-)
Let's substitute the word "dominant" in place of "leader". Now I'll ask the same sort of question I did in the previous paragraph. Why would a dominant choose a submissive? I'm sure chemistry and attraction are in the equation, but I'm equally sure the submissive's balance and abilities as a human being are also in the equation. There's not much point in having an executive assistant who can't get a job done on their own. What if the executive assistant must supervise others and make effective decisions (without supervision) in order to do a task the dominant asks of them? Bingo! The key is that submissives (as with capable, sought after executive assistants) bring their skills to bare as appropriate and as supports their dominant because they believe in the dominant's vision and leadership.
Illuminating my own motivations a tad more, I choose not to lead because I don't wish to. It's a personal decision and one that isn't based on a lack leadership training and skills. I find more reward in supporting my dominant and my relationships. So in essence, if you will, I don't want the dominant's job, but I recognize that for a relationship to be successful (as with any organization) it needs leadership. I look to my partner for leadership and hence why I tend to gel more with dominant women than non-dominant. Why does a highly skilled employee choose to work for a given company? Often it's because they enjoy the given work, feel they can contribute to the success and growth of the company, and believe in the leadership and direction of the company's management. This is an exact parallel to things I look for in a dominant.
quote:
PeonForHer:
It isn't just society that makes me want to strive and to 'win' (in my personal senses of those words) - that drive is a part of me, and one with which I'm completely happy. I don't need to homogenize my mind and my motivations. The sub and the vanilla sides of me pull at one another and that's exactly the way I like it. People so often seem to think that one's psyche just must work best when it's free of all tension (or 'cognitive dissonance'). I don't hold to that anymore. For me, the tension produces the energy. Tension is good!
I resonate with this somewhat, but there's a large aspect that doesn't really describe me. I've chosen to submit. My partner has accepted my submission and I've accepted my partner's leadership. Thus, when I submit, I don't feel any tension or cognitive dissonance. It's that simple. The vanilla and kinky sides of me are intertwined, multi-faceted, and multi-layered, as are my leadership and followership skills. I choose to use these as are appropriate to the situation. Example from my vanilla life: when I'm managing a project versus working as an analyst, I use different skills. These skills are all part of me though. Getting back to BDSM then, I don't feel a push pull between my vanilla and submissive psyches nor between my various skill sets. I think this is part of why I find myself more comfortable and capable as a submissive/executive assistant to my partner. The one thing I see again and again in leaders (and dominants) is a desire to lead. I don't have that desire per se. Of necessity, I'll lead, but this isn't my preferred role.
Addressing tension. When a leader commands something I don't want to do, but that I know is ultimately good for the team/organization, I do it anyway. Sometimes, I may not know the leader's goal and motivations because there isn't time for me to get the details (or the leader doesn't wish to reveal the details yet). Leader says "please do X now" so I go and do X immediately. This is where trust and faith come into play. Put this all together and, yes, I sometimes feel tension in not knowing or tension from a chore that must be done, unpleasant though it may be. Ultimately, I believe in my leader's character and vision, and this is what moves me forward. If I strongly feel there are issues to address before proceeding, I'll communicate and ask for clarification. This is situational and as appropriate. Dominants don't always want or have time to explain every command so as a submissive, one of the things I balance is when to do without question and when to ask questions. In D/s play dynamics there can also be tension. Case in point, a domme puts her boy into chastity. He may or may not know the domme's ultimate goal, but he'll likely feel tension (hopefully of the good kind :-).
quote:
Andalusite:
I don't really see a disconnect. The alpha thing I view as more personality based rather than directly correlating to D/s. Throughout history, soldiers have traditionally been required to serve/protect, and obey the people who are in command, but are still viewed as very manly in that role.
These words are closer to my own approach. With this said, I'll address the OP directly.
quote:
sunshinemiss:
Most societies encourage men to be alphas, to be decisive, in charge, strong, tough. Men are scorned to some degree when they are not. I am wondering how you all handle the difference between what is inside you and what society presses upon you, not merely the cognitive dissonance, but the actual physical manifestations of submission. Taking the tie off and then kneeling. How does that change take place? Is there a change? What about the interactions you have in the real world. Sure men hold the door for a woman, but what about other things? How does it work for you?
Since early childhood and onward, I've never followed traditional, societal expectations of men. At a very early age, I started having submissive fantasies (though I didn't know that's what they were). As a young businessman, when the topic switched to football, I tuned out because team sports really weren't of interest to me. This was the same in my highschool days. While other's were trying alcohol and drugs, and waiting to become of age so they could get into clubs, I had no interest. Ditto for owning a car. My logic was pragmatic. Why get a license when I can't yet afford a car? Music was and is one of my greatest inspirations, and I listen to it in a way that my parents find/found strange. On a weekend, while other kids were out in the park playing, I'd listen to music for hours - ten hours at a stretch, analyzing and savoring every detail. I had no musical training and my family wasn't a musical one, but I knew there was something special in what I'd found. I could add more to this list, but the gist is I've always somewhat gone against the grain and, to a degree, felt on the outside of society.
While I do care what people feel, I don't care at all what "general society" thinks about my tastes, career goals, relationships, etc. Answering the question, how do I feel when "taking the tie off and then kneeling" before my domme? I feel like I've come home to the sanctity of my loving partner and leader; I've come home to the place I should be and want to be. There is no change that takes place in me vis-vis cognitive dissonance with society.
Early on, as I was discovering and exploring, I realized D/s wasn't a societal norm for relationships, even though it seemed very sensible to me. Also, a lot of my early reading was underground BDSM literature and BDSM magazines so I definitely got the idea this was something not accepted and that I had to hide. The same was true of finding partners. In a dating introduction, it's socially acceptable to say "I'm looking for someone to go hiking with" but not so much so when saying "I'm looking for someone to become the dominate in a relationship". These are things I eventually came to terms with. As odd as this may sound, I had to come to terms with some vanilla things too. For example, in a social business setting, it's quite important to know which team won last night's football/hockey/basketball game - the topic is going to come up so I've broadened my understanding and I actually do (now) enjoy watching a game.
There's a lot more I could say, but I'm out of time. Hopefully my unfinished contribution still provides prospective.
*waves hello to LadyHibiscus and undergroundsea* :-)
Elan.
< Message edited by ElanSubdued -- 12/9/2009 12:00:40 PM >
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RE: Cognitive Dissonance in the Submissive Man - 
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