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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 7:20:28 PM

PeonForHer

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FR

Hell's bells. Every time an intelligent discussion about ethics and morality starts on CM's forums, somebody destroys it by bringing the Bible into it.

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 7:21:24 PM

Aswad

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Hey, Big G... need an apprentice?

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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

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Post #: 182

RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 7:31:20 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Hell's bells. Every time an intelligent discussion about ethics and morality starts on CM's forums, somebody destroys it by bringing the Bible into it.

In what way was this ever about ethics, about morality, or an intelligent discussion concerning same?

Strikes me as a case of there having been a discussion about the Bible and stuff in that general neighbourhood, to which a bunch of otherwise intelligent people brought ethics, morality and more. None of which seems to have any place in what the OP would be interested in hearing about in connection with her question(s). Predictably, a lot of smoke and no light results.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

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Post #: 183

RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 7:34:41 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
well this thread has done nothing to convince me that anything about religion is real.

That's not the topic of the thread, the OP is looking for validation that she's not an evil abomination for being how she is i.e. kinky. As such I would hope that we've spent more time in the thread supporting her and letter her know her sexual orientation is not something to be ashamed of than discussing whether religion is real.

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
if you believe in god, and read the bible then surely you are supposed to take it as written, not decide that you can interpret it so that it fits what you want it to mean.

The Bible is an anthology written by authors who held conflicting beliefs. As such rationalizations are required to reconcile it into a coherent message.

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Post #: 184

RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 8:08:49 PM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK
I think it sounded pretty good when it was told to Me.
Although, as I said, I am pretty sure I fucked up how it was said when I was typing it here,lol.

Your phrasing seemed fine to me, keep in mind that Pascal's Wager is a classic apologetics argument that most of us have heard expressed a number of different ways so criticism of it isn't a problem with your phrasing.

Pascal's Wager is a really bad argument and I posit to you that you would immediately notice how terrible it is if it were about anything other than your religion.

As such I present you with GotSteel's Wager:

If there is no Garry the Unicorn and we die, then that will be all, we will just die. But if there is Garry the Unicorn and we die, then those who chose not to wear cones upon their heads are in trouble. I think I'd rather be on Garry the Unicorn's side.

So have you been convinced to wear a cone on your head or are you seeing something wrong with GotSteel's Wager?

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Post #: 185

RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 8:26:45 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
And while Master and I are not technically married, I like to think God sees us as married because we have been committed to each other for so many years within the eyes of God.

quote:

There you go, that's just the sort of rationalization to work around gods law that I'm talking about.

It's based on the study of old testament Judaic history. My beliefs are based on the history and the culture of the times when the Old Testament was written and why so that it can be based on context and what it means for us today.

It really doesn't matter to me if the op takes my advice or not and I'm certainly not concerned about your thoughts. But thanks for the response.

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Post #: 186

RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 8:34:17 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
It's based on the study of old testament Judaic history. My beliefs are based on the history and the culture of the times when the Old Testament was written and why so that it can be based on context and what it means for us today.

Pff. I am now. You - and everybody else - would do far better by consulting me instead.

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Post #: 187

RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 9:20:36 PM

FrostedFlake

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Hey! Since Big G is here (I knew it allatime!) I got a question.

For any one, if Big G doesn't want to handle it.

Why do we need God to save us from God?

I mean, where is the upside? For anyone? Big G included.

Edit : To add Color.

< Message edited by FrostedFlake -- 8/21/2012 9:21:59 PM >

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Post #: 188

RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 9:28:05 PM

Rule

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quote:

“Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain”
― Friedrich von Schiller

Neither the Divine nor the pagan gods are cause of concern. It is the stupidity of human beings that causes all kinds of problems.

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Post #: 189

RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 10:27:24 PM

TNDommeK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK
I think it sounded pretty good when it was told to Me.
Although, as I said, I am pretty sure I fucked up how it was said when I was typing it here,lol.

Your phrasing seemed fine to me, keep in mind that Pascal's Wager is a classic apologetics argument that most of us have heard expressed a number of different ways so criticism of it isn't a problem with your phrasing.

Pascal's Wager is a really bad argument and I posit to you that you would immediately notice how terrible it is if it were about anything other than your religion.

As such I present you with GotSteel's Wager:

If there is no Garry the Unicorn and we die, then that will be all, we will just die. But if there is Garry the Unicorn and we die, then those who chose not to wear cones upon their heads are in trouble. I think I'd rather be on Garry the Unicorn's side.

So have you been convinced to wear a cone on your head or are you seeing something wrong with GotSteel's Wager?

Did Gary the unicorn create the world? Is he the unicorn I have to answer to when I die? if so, I would like a rainbow colored horn please,lol. No but seriously, I get what you are saying. It can be presented in any argument and insert which ever point is trying to be made, correct?

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Post #: 190

RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 11:34:28 PM

Okeanos

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Pascal's wager is a very poor argument for reasons additional to the one already mentioned.
See, for example, this blog post: Homer Simpson Answers Pascal's Wager

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Post #: 191

RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 11:40:42 PM

MrBlue76

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

~FR~

My dad once said to Me: "If there is no God and we die, then that will be all, we will just die. But if there is a God and we die, then those who chose not to believe are in trouble. I think I'd rather be on God's side."

I think to each their own, but I just choose to live a good life and be as courteous as I can be to others, pray and have a relationship with God. The bible was written by man (especially the old test.), which is why I try to follow the new test. as closely as I can. No one is perfect.

There are several flaws in that sentence.

1.- It presents believing in God as something without any drawback. Which is false in most cases. No, if you have spent your life avoiding to do some things that you would have enjoyed, and there's no God, no, that's not all. It's a lot of fun and enjoyment missed in the name of something false. (Imagine the friend of the OP, having homosexual feelings, for instance). So, believieng in God (unless it's done from a philosophical point of view, out of organized religion), is not "free". Comes with a price.
2.- There may be a God, but not be "that God" you have decided to believe in. And you could be screwed, anyway.
3.- There may be a God, be the one that you have decided to believe in, and still, he might not like you. And you would be screwed anyway.
4.- There may be a God, not being the God that you have decided to believe in. And he can be way more upset with believers in other Gods than with plain atheists. And you would be double screwed.
5.- There may be a God, and find atheists superfunny and great people, deserving the VIP room in heaven. Just because he wants to. Because, he's God, after all....

Just to mention a few.

I particularly, think there's no God. And if there's a God, and he is like some religious people think he is... well, then I'm totally against him.

< Message edited by MrBlue76 -- 8/21/2012 11:42:38 PM >

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/22/2012 6:50:08 AM

needlesandpins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
well this thread has done nothing to convince me that anything about religion is real.

That's not the topic of the thread, the OP is looking for validation that she's not an evil abomination for being how she is i.e. kinky. As such I would hope that we've spent more time in the thread supporting her and letter her know her sexual orientation is not something to be ashamed of than discussing whether religion is real.

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
if you believe in god, and read the bible then surely you are supposed to take it as written, not decide that you can interpret it so that it fits what you want it to mean.

The Bible is an anthology written by authors who held conflicting beliefs. As such rationalizations are required to reconcile it into a coherent message.

maybe you missed it in the op where she said she is religious and will she go to hell for doing wiitwd. hence, god either exists along with all the stuff in the bible, commandments, and so on. in which case she is going to hell. or he doesn't exists and she can do what the hell she likes with no come back.

or she can be like all the other 'believers' on here and twist everything to suit her own gains, and appease her own conscience.

if religion is mentioned in a thread/conversation anywhere in conjection to 'should i/ can i do this and not go to hell, then you are going to get a discussion about whether god exists in the first place. it's inevitable.

so i stand by what i said. nothing in here has so far made me thing that there is any truth in a god. i also think that those who 'believe' twist everything to suit what they want. in the end if they are right then i guess their huge ego is getting their arse kicked to the curb for assuming they knew better than to take things as written. you can't claim to believe, but then pick and choose which bits.

what i know for sure is this; if such a god exists then there are going to be a lot of very fucked off people when they die. it must be the kicker of all time to die and realise you backed the wrong god.

needles

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Post #: 193

RE: god and bsdm - 8/22/2012 6:57:15 AM

needlesandpins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlue76

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

~FR~

My dad once said to Me: "If there is no God and we die, then that will be all, we will just die. But if there is a God and we die, then those who chose not to believe are in trouble. I think I'd rather be on God's side."

I think to each their own, but I just choose to live a good life and be as courteous as I can be to others, pray and have a relationship with God. The bible was written by man (especially the old test.), which is why I try to follow the new test. as closely as I can. No one is perfect.

There are several flaws in that sentence.

1.- It presents believing in God as something without any drawback. Which is false in most cases. No, if you have spent your life avoiding to do some things that you would have enjoyed, and there's no God, no, that's not all. It's a lot of fun and enjoyment missed in the name of something false. (Imagine the friend of the OP, having homosexual feelings, for instance). So, believieng in God (unless it's done from a philosophical point of view, out of organized religion), is not "free". Comes with a price.
2.- There may be a God, but not be "that God" you have decided to believe in. And you could be screwed, anyway.
3.- There may be a God, be the one that you have decided to believe in, and still, he might not like you. And you would be screwed anyway.
4.- There may be a God, not being the God that you have decided to believe in. And he can be way more upset with believers in other Gods than with plain atheists. And you would be double screwed.
5.- There may be a God, and find atheists superfunny and great people, deserving the VIP room in heaven. Just because he wants to. Because, he's God, after all....

Just to mention a few.

I particularly, think there's no God. And if there's a God, and he is like some religious people think he is... well, then I'm totally against him.

very well said!

needles

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/22/2012 6:58:45 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Okeanos

Pascal's wager is a very poor argument for reasons additional to the one already mentioned.
See, for example, this blog post: Homer Simpson Answers Pascal's Wager

That was fun, thanks!

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Post #: 195

RE: god and bsdm - 8/22/2012 7:33:49 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
if they are right then i guess their huge ego is getting their arse kicked to the curb

You are rather obsessed with huge ego's. Can it be that your own is as large or larger?

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Post #: 196

RE: god and bsdm - 8/22/2012 8:22:38 AM

needlesandpins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
if they are right then i guess their huge ego is getting their arse kicked to the curb

You are rather obsessed with huge ego's. Can it be that your own is as large or larger?

you seem rather obsessed with me Rule, you just can't keep away from me.

however, i'm affraid that tinfoil makes my teeth itch.

as for my ego, it's fine all on its little lonesome. i don't need some higher thing to be responsible to. i'm responsible for my own actions and have nothing to answer to for anything i do. i stick within the laws set out by other humans with the power to do so. i'm between 13-14 billion years old, and in part i shall last forever.

needles

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/22/2012 9:13:36 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins
you seem rather obsessed with me Rule, you just can't keep away from me.

I suspect that you are a sub and definitely not a natural slave.

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Post #: 198

RE: god and bsdm - 8/22/2012 10:46:32 AM

TNDommeK

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I do believe in God, I just don't like hypocritical organized religions. So I think that is why I mostly tend to have a personal relationship with Him. And as I stated, the Wagner thing was something that was stated to me before, Me personally I feel that I am not following God just because I don't want to go to hell. I am following Him because if the joy He brings to me when I do. (among countless other reasons)

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/22/2012 10:47:33 AM

LadyHibiscus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

I do believe in God, I just don't like hypocritical organized religions. So I think that is why I mostly tend to have a personal relationship with Him. And as I stated, the Wagner thing was something that was stated to me before, Me personally I feel that I am not following God just because I don't want to go to hell. I am following Him because if the joy He brings to me when I do. (among countless other reasons)

That's the best possible reason I can think of.

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