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RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 10:23:07 PM   
FrostedFlake


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Status: offline 		It plays.

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 11:22:28 PM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Rabbi's typically had concubines, thus, extramarital sex, and occasionally they married them.



News to me. I know that kings such as David had them, but I never thought of rabbis having that much power and wealth.


It's mentioned in a couple places - actually I don't know how widespread the practice was but it appears to have caused no particular drama.

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 11:24:58 PM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Once in a heterosexual marriage, sex in the way I described earlier is perfectly fine and you are not committing any sins.


Actually, that's not quite right, as far as I can tell.

Sin is just a premodern term for a felony. The things listed as abominations would then be the capital crimes, while the things that didn't make it into writing are the misdemeanors. In any practical sense, it is virtually impossible to live without crimes against the Law, and hard enough to live without crimes against the law. For instance, dealing with menstruation and ejaculation in the proscribed manner would be pretty difficult, even if you could find a garbage dump (unclean place) that would allow you to stay there until you're "hygienic" again. Mixed fabrics and pork are another major obstacle.

A priest, with whom I discussed these matters a couple of days ago, agreed the reconcilliation between practical needs and the biblical texts is both difficult and fraught with politically pragmatic doctrines that try to make tradeoffs that often have very little basis in the underlying source material. For instance, fulfilling the prophecies isn't nearly the same as abolishing the Torah, except everyone hated the Jews and so getting accepted in ancient Rome required making a lot of compromises and fudging things (e.g. by claiming the Torah had been superseded) so as to create an acceptable distance to the Jews.

Probably, it all comes down to some guy that was too afraid to let anyone snip his wiener, making the crusades a matter of cock.

IWYW,
— Aswad.



"The law was made for man, not man for the law".

-- J. Christ.

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 5:13:04 AM   
MrBlue76


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

"The law was made for man, not man for the law".

-- J. Christ.


I thought that was a Nixon quote...

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 6:57:08 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

"The law was made for man, not man for the law"


Yeah, but if you're looking for bondage, you're not going to be looking for wiggle room, right?

IWYW,
— Aswad.



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We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 8:37:56 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

I've got a question..I just told a friend about me being on cm and that i would like to get to know more abiut bsdn. And thay said it was wrong that i would go to hell because its all the devil's play.but ive meet people on here the believe in gid and go to church... just wanted some feed back


I was raised Catholic and now go to a Unitarian Universalist church. I have no conflict between my beliefs and BDSM.

I'm just now reading about Gehenna being mistranslated as Hell; does anyone have any comments?

http://forum.greaterreality.com/messages/9.html

...None of the hell thing was in Jesus' teachings. First, Jesus and others such as James spoke of Gehenna, a place where human sacrifices occurred in fire and later garbage was burned. Jesus warned that if Israel didn't turn to God, it would be destroyed in flames, and he used Gehenna as an analogy. But he never suggested people would be judged and thrown into a place where there is fire.

The translators of the Bible took out the name of the place, Gehenna, and inserted an ancient English word, "hell," which originally meant to cover something. They should have left the name Gehenna there and the problem wouldn't have arisen. Jesus never spoke of a hell because there was no such thing until the translators inserted the word.

And the idea of torment and people burning was made up by two prominent writers, Dante and Milton. There's nothing like that anywhere in the Bible.

...The Roman Church began using the idea of a hell to convert people through fear and keep people in line. The conception grew and was embellished by Dante in the fourteenth century and Milton in the seventeenth century until today preachers are really convinced there is such a thing. It's simply a fiction; it has no basis in reality, and certainly not in the teachings of any religion, including the teachings of Jesus.

Here's what we know from Jesus' teachings. He would never condemn anyone. Read the story of the adulteress about to be stoned. And read his words that we should not tell others they have faults (specks in their eyes) because we all have a beam of wood in our own eyes (our own faults). The Jesus of the New Testament was unconditionally loving, would never condemn someone, and certainly wouldn't stand on a mountaintop throwing little Muslim, Jewish, and Buddhist children into hell. It's simply preposterous.

...

< Message edited by kalikshama -- 8/21/2012 8:38:13 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 8:47:42 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		Here's an interesting article on Hebrew and Greek words mistranslated to mean "hell" in the Old and New Testaments:

http://www.godsplanforall.com/mistranslationstomeanhell

The doctrine of everlasting punishment in hell is founded upon a combination of mistranslations and misinterpretations of the following Hebrew and Greek words.

- Mistranslations of the Hebrew word sheol and the Greek words hades, tartarus and gehenna, to mean hell.

- Mistranslations of the Hebrew word owlam and the Greek words aion and aionios, to mean forever or everlasting when relating to God’s judgement of unbelievers and fallen angels.

In this chapter, we deal with sheol, hades, tartarus and gehenna, which have been mistranslated to mean hell. In the next chapter, we shall deal with the mistranslations of owlam, aion and aionios.



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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 9:09:34 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
I'm just now reading about Gehenna being mistranslated as Hell; does anyone have any comments?

http://forum.greaterreality.com/messages/9.html

Misinterpreted. Translators, being ordinary humans, ought not to interpret their source texts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
...None of the hell thing was in Jesus' teachings. First, Jesus and others such as James spoke of Gehenna, a place where human sacrifices occurred in fire and later garbage was burned. Jesus warned that if Israel didn't turn to God, it would be destroyed in flames, and he used Gehenna as an analogy. But he never suggested people would be judged and thrown into a place where there is fire.

That is so interesting. If only we had the GPS coordinates.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
The translators of the Bible took out the name of the place, Gehenna, and inserted an ancient English word, "hell," which originally meant to cover something.

Hm. I can tell that it is a very ancient word.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
They should have left the name Gehenna there and the problem wouldn't have arisen. Jesus never spoke of a hell because there was no such thing until the translators inserted the word.

Quite. They were different places.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
And the idea of torment and people burning was made up by two prominent writers, Dante and Milton. There's nothing like that anywhere in the Bible.

There is in the Aneid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
...The Roman Church began using the idea of a hell to convert people through fear and keep people in line.

That was a good idea. Those who lack a conscience, as so many of our ancestors did, must be kept in line by threat of force.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
The conception grew and was embellished by Dante in the fourteenth century and Milton in the seventeenth century until today preachers are really convinced there is such a thing.

It was and is a useful concept, though based on erroneous interpretations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
It's simply a fiction; it has no basis in reality, and certainly not in the teachings of any religion, including the teachings of Jesus.

On the contrary, it did - and presumably still does - have a basis in reality. However, it is being misinterpreted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
Here's what we know from Jesus' teachings. He would never condemn anyone. Read the story of the adulteress about to be stoned. And read his words that we should not tell others they have faults (specks in their eyes) because we all have a beam of wood in our own eyes (our own faults). The Jesus of the New Testament was unconditionally loving, would never condemn someone, and certainly wouldn't stand on a mountaintop throwing little Muslim, Jewish, and Buddhist children into hell. It's simply preposterous.

I agree. Yet nevertheless, if this is what it takes for circumcised populations to stop the abomination of circumcision, then by all means let those who circumcise their progeny burn in Hell!

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 11:20:04 AM   
CRYPTICLXVI


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Status: offline 		kalikshama, you might find the following books interesting Life After Death: A History of the Afterlife in Western Religion by Alan F. Segal, The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels or A History of God: The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam by Karen Armstrong. As for Jesus, anything by John Dominic Crossan is fascinating.

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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 11:26:48 AM   
kiwisub12


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I agree. Yet nevertheless, if this is what it takes for circumcised populations to stop the abomination of circumcision, then by all means let those who circumcise their progeny burn in Hell!




Well, if Rule manages to get this thread turned to addressing circumcision (which brings to mind a somewhat irreverent image of a penis in a tuxedo!) we could be two for three of the unholy trinity lol - all we would need is someone to bring politics into it.

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 11:28:27 AM   
CRYPTICLXVI


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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 11:30:00 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		Thanks! I've heard good reviews of "The Origin of Satan" and have just placed it on hold at my library.

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 11:31:59 AM   
CRYPTICLXVI


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Thanks! I've heard good reviews of "The Origin of Satan" and have just placed it on hold at my library.


Easy but interesting read, I cannot overemphasize how good the Segal book is...

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 11:34:09 AM   
TNDommeK


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OP, I am a southern baptist raised individual who believe in God. I do not however agree with the hypocritical perversions that churches try to burn into your head. That being said, you need to explain calmly to your friend (though I'm sure she will still have an opinion) that you are grown and that you are going to do what you want to do. She is not your judge, only God can judge you (remember when Tupac said that?). I am sure that even Mother Teresa (sp?) had things she had to answer to God about when she got up there. No one is ever perfect but IMO as long as you have good in your heart and an existing relationship with God, you will be fine.

No matter what you do in life, there will always be someone poking their nose in your business telling you what they think is right and wrong. Unless that person is your dom, then just smile and say "ok" and go on about your day. Good luck to you.

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 11:40:56 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		How would the friend know if the OP hadn't brought it up? People should consider their audiences. I wouldn't talk to Aunt Gert about anal sex; nor would I talk to her about BDSM.

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 11:41:42 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline 		well this thread has done nothing to convince me that anything about religion is real. it would seem that no matter what someone believes in when it comes to a 'god' figure you all basically make it up as you go along to fit your lives to ease your consciences. if you believe in god, and read the bible then surely you are supposed to take it as written, not decide that you can interpret it so that it fits what you want it to mean. surely that is showing your god that you have a massive ego to assume you know better than what is actually written right there in front of you. or maybe it shows that the bible is so cuckoo in the first place that you can't live by it because it's impossible.

with Rule added into the mix it's as trippy as going around the world on a rainbow coloured unicorn.

needles

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 11:42:48 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		Pretty much, Needles. People invented gods, not the other way around. Amazing, what they chose for themselves.

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 11:56:50 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		Ok, that book is on hold too!

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 12:02:46 PM   
CRYPTICLXVI


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

How would the friend know if the OP hadn't brought it up? People should consider their audiences. I wouldn't talk to Aunt Gert about anal sex; nor would I talk to her about BDSM.


Too late, you didn't tell me those conversations with your Aunt Gert were taboo...

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: god and bsdm - 8/21/2012 12:09:09 PM   
kalikshama


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Profile   Post #: 140
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