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RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 4:09:45 AM

SlipSlidingAway

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I think Rule's angry because somebody hurt mister winkie when he was too young to stop them...

Nope. I used to excel in biology and I have concluded that circumcision harms the gene pool and has many other bad effects on circumcising populations, like causing a lack of innate ethics.

So, a man's ethical foundation lay in his foreskin? Who knew?

_____________________________

"...ethical behavior should be based...on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. " —Albert Einstein

(in reply to Rule)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 4:11:53 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway
So, a man's ethical foundation lay in his foreskin? Who knew?

It is a rather complex issue.

(in reply to SlipSlidingAway)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 4:19:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway
So, a man's ethical foundation lay in his foreskin? Who knew?

It is a rather complex issue.

By all means publish your research in a peer-reviewed journal and I'll give it a good look over.

In the meantime, I hope you'll forgive me if I ignore claims that appear absurd, nonsensical, and have only a very marginal bearing on the topic. ;-)

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to Rule)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 4:20:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
I think Rule's angry because somebody hurt mister winkie when he was too young to stop them...

Nope. I used to excel in biology and I have concluded that circumcision harms the gene pool and has many other bad effects on circumcising populations, like causing a lack of innate ethics.

So, a man's ethical foundation lay in his foreskin? Who knew?

ROFL I dread to think what happened to me when they removed my infected appendix...

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to SlipSlidingAway)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 4:23:31 AM

SlipSlidingAway

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OP, I know that the Baptist's can be a tough lot (I have southern cousins that are Fundamental Bible based Baptists). For a group that has fractions that believe most music is from the Devil and that frowns upon dancing as a sort of precursor to sexual promiscuity, it's going to be a hard sell NOT to see BDSM as inherently evil. However, not all religions see things the same way, actually, few do. I think that what you need to do is figure out what YOU believe about God- and what you believe about BDSM. While your friend has good intentions (many folks of all religious ilk find it imperative to save their friend's from eternal damnation lol), this is really an issue between you and your God. While people here can give you insights, more than likely it will just muddy the fray for you. Since I am assuming you are having an issue because you want to do more than pay lip service to your faith, and you really want to live it, decide what can and can't work in YOUR life. I'm sure that some forms of BDSM can be incorporated, at some point, in your life. The key will be in knowing who you are and what you believe is okay with the God that you believe in and worship. Which may mean BDSM is only okay in marriage. Or, maybe not. Perhaps you don't really believe in certain tenets of the organized religion you belong with, which is cool, too (or just never thought to really examine if you believe what you have been taught). If that's the case,then find a religion that better aligns with what you believe God truly intended and consider converting.

I wish you the best in your journey.

Slip~

< Message edited by SlipSlidingAway -- 8/20/2012 4:24:14 AM >

_____________________________

"...ethical behavior should be based...on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. " —Albert Einstein

(in reply to SlipSlidingAway)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 4:27:51 AM

SlipSlidingAway

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway
So, a man's ethical foundation lay in his foreskin? Who knew?

It is a rather complex issue.

Well, it's been said that men tend to think with either their big head, or the lil one. So, going by that theory, I guess a circumcision is akin to a secondary lobotomy? (BTW, just poking fun at you, no harm intended)

_____________________________

"...ethical behavior should be based...on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. " —Albert Einstein

(in reply to Rule)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 4:30:36 AM

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Okies...

SO I'm a proper evangelical atheist. I really do think it's all complete fucking baloney.

But... given the number of really smart, thoughtful, people I know that do have faith, I'll answer your question as best I can.

Firstly - Ask your friend where in scripture it says that what you do is "the devil's play". At the very best, you'll find that some evangelical mad-wag has made an obscure connection between something from the OT (most likely Leviticus) and proclaimed that BDSM is the devils work.

Bear in mind that, as the wonderful CynthiaWVirginia pointed out, that if you shop around you can find preachers that will claim that all sorts of things are "of the devil". I was once (way back when I was a proper full-on bible thumping-baptised in a river-god-lovin baptist) assured that listening to Pink Floyd would send me to hell. In the end it was a choice between God and Dark Side of the Moon. I chose.

If you take the Christian covenant at its face value, this bearded young dude Jesus, was trying to pitch a philosophy based around love. Love, compassion, and forgiveness are the core of Christian theology.

For someone who isn't God to pronounce that you're off to hell because you like this rather than that, isn't showing a great deal of any of those.

So... ask your friend to imagine their Peter (or is it Paul - whichever of the two does the math at the pearly gates)... P greets two people, one who'd had a couple of loving kinky relationships, built on consent, a mutual respect for each other's needs and who sought on a daily basis to go to sleep leaving the world just a little bit better than it was in the morning. The second person spent her time judging, accusing, and claiming to speak for god.

I don't know about you - but if there were a God, and zhe was the loving compassionate god that the NT describes, the first person would have far less cause for concern (although.... I'm guessing that a really loving and compassionate god would accept that the second person wasn't actually "bad", just fucking stupid.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to Newtothis5762003)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 4:37:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

I think Rule's angry because somebody hurt mister winkie when he was too young to stop them...

Rule has a long history on these Boards with obsessive concern for the circumcised populations of this world. I am not certain what he wants done with them or to them, if anything. Otherwise, just early 20th Century european chatter that has lead to awful consequences in the past.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 8/20/2012 4:39:54 AM >

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 4:44:24 AM

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I don't see any conflict.

In fact I see a lot of similarities between what constitutes BDSM for a lot of people and also what constitutes religion for a lot of people.

For example you have service, worship, people living together in stable, harmonious relationships, people meeting together in communities.

Also, because it also rarely gets mentioned, there's a lot of people interested in BDSM/kink doing a lot of things for charity and community causes.

Whips and chains doesn't make it BDSM. Being able to read words in a Bible also doesn't make it religion.

In both cases you do have to live it to be a part of it.

_____________________________

Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.

(in reply to SlipSlidingAway)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 5:03:30 AM

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First off, a disclaimer. I'm Jewish. In our services, the rabbi explains his or her interpretation of the Old Testament, and the congregants question him/her, add their own interpretations, and discuss it. The top-down model where a priest or minister gives their own take, and it is unchallenged by the congregants, just seems plain wrong and prone to personal biases creeping in. I call it the "madrassa model".

With that out of the way, some friend of yours made a statement that practitioners of BDSM are going to hell. Based on what? If she cannot back that up with any specific scripture, then she's in danger of claiming to speak for God without any actual basis, which is not good. It could be seen as setting herself up as an authority on Him without his permission.

What specific part of BDSM is she objecting to? It can't be poly, because King David had the largest poly family in history. It can't be male-led relationships, because Paul specifically gave instructions on them and the entire Bible is replete with them. It probably isn't premarital sex, because that's obviously not unique to BDSM. It might be anal and oral sex, but like premarital sex, it's practiced outside BDSM more than in it. Perhaps bondage or impact play?

Newtothis, my suggestion to you is to not accept things people say, without turning it over in your own mind. Ask questions, discuss, and begin to form your own conclusions and opinions.

And welcome to the Colorado scene!

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to vincentML)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 5:23:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Newtothis5762003
I've got a question..I just told a friend about me being on cm and that i would like to get to know more abiut bsdn. And thay said it was wrong that i would go to hell because its all the devil's play.but ive meet people on here the believe in gid and go to church... just wanted some feed back

There's no problem, just pick a denomination that says what you want to hear and you're good to go.

(in reply to Newtothis5762003)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 5:26:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Newtothis5762003

I've got a question..I just told a friend about me being on cm and that i would like to get to know more abiut bsdn. And thay said it was wrong that i would go to hell because its all the devil's play.but ive meet people on here the believe in gid and go to church... just wanted some feed back

You're looking for an authority that can control the trigger of your guilt. You have three options: 1) find someone who'll flick the trigger - and he'll in turn find the religious basis from somewhere or another in the Bible, 2) find someone who won't flick the trigger - he'll find something in the Bible that says kink is OK, or at least say that God doesn't care or 3) stop looking for an authority that will do either, on the basis that you don't need any authority anyway.

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 5:35:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway
So, a man's ethical foundation lay in his foreskin? Who knew?

There's all sorts of magical thinking Rule can teach you:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Usually, if there is a word for it, it is or was real.
Unicorns are real.

(in reply to SlipSlidingAway)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 5:55:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway
So, a man's ethical foundation lay in his foreskin? Who knew?

It is a rather complex issue.

Well, it's been said that men tend to think with either their big head, or the lil one. So, going by that theory, I guess a circumcision is akin to a secondary lobotomy? (BTW, just poking fun at you, no harm intended)

It would be more a like a radical haircut....

_____________________________

I'm not a native english speaker. So, if I'm writing very stupid things, the reason behind it can be:
1.- That I'm having problems with the language, and translation
2.- That, simply, I'm writing very stupid things
Give me the benefit of doubt!

(in reply to SlipSlidingAway)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 6:16:00 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
Firstly - Ask your friend where in scripture it says that what you do is "the devil's play". At the very best, you'll find that some evangelical mad-wag has made an obscure connection between something from the OT (most likely Leviticus) and proclaimed that BDSM is the devils work.

Personally this seems to me like about as good an idea as poking a rabid badger with a stick.

This friend is all morally outraged by our existence, sure they don't have a scriptural leg to stand on but when has that ever stopped a bigot from endorsing bigotry?

One can call bullshit on such people but I've never seen that cause them to admit they're wrong (at least in the short term). The tendency I've seen is for them to get furious in response.

I think this is an area of the OP's life which she may want to avoid bringing up with her friend.

(in reply to crazyml)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 6:18:07 AM

xssve

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Read the bible, the shit in there is far more hair raising than anything anybody in here does, and god doesn't seem to mind a bit, encourages it in fact.

Most of the erotophobic aspect of current protestant Christianity is actually Calvinism, which is very different from Christianity, and almost none of which is echoed in the Bible itself - Calvin is a third hand interpretation of various parts of the bible, and mostly a distortion of Augustine, rather than a commentary on the primary text.

'Course oral traditions are very hard to dislodge, particularly when you're dealing with the barely literate.

Focus on Family (or Foes of Fun, as they are often called) are based in Co. and probably have some influence, rest assured that any credibility they have with anybody is usually at a distance, they are often run out of even Christian communities on a rail once everybody figures out what a bunch of miserable bitches they are.

That is the historic trend, the Calvinist Puritans didn't last long in England either, they're such a drag, but they never seem to stop trying to be relevant.

The bible says submit to your husband, it doesn't go into detail.

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 6:28:39 AM

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then his master must bring him to God. The master must bring him to the door or the doorframe and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his slave for life.

exodus 21:6.

God loves whipping your ass, he invented BDSM.

The Devil.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to xssve)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 6:33:04 AM

xssve

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In fact you'd have to say the whole notion of male supremacy/female inferiority is an inherently biblical notion, via original sin. Their big bugaboo seems to actually be anal sex, which is forbidden nowhere in the bible in a hetero context.

It's associated with homosexuality, apparently only men have assholes among Christians, and there is deep seated fear of feminine sexuality in general.

But whatever it is, it isn't working: Baptists have the highest divorce rate.

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Walking nightmare...

(in reply to xssve)

RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 6:34:10 AM

xssve

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Just have 'em listen to this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x80h_JiOTZs

< Message edited by xssve -- 8/20/2012 6:36:50 AM >

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RE: god and bsdm - 8/20/2012 6:40:23 AM

Newtothis5762003

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Well pam ur not supost to have sex before marriage. But my dom said he wants to get married.

(in reply to gungadin09)

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