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RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 4:53:25 PM   
cordeliasub


Posts: 528
Joined: 11/4/2012
Status: offline 		Okay...breatha, then read...slowly...for comprehension.

It was Martin's GIRLFRIEND who lived in the subdivision.

Martin's GIRLFRIEND.

Trayvon did not live with MARTIN'S GIRLFRIEND.

And as far as this ride thing goes. I have teenagers. I would not EVER want them to get into a car with a random stranger for "a ride home."

Now, do we understand or are we still too caught up in our need to be right to have reading comprehension?

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 2021
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 5:03:01 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

...We know the reason why. For when the NRA lobbied hard for the Stand Your Ground law in Florida which allowed Zimmerman to murder a young, black youth, it did so with a vision of white 'victimhood' – and gun sales to white Americans – in mind.


Kana said it much better than I could.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

And other than the fact that Holder is such a lousy attorney he can't keep track of case law, why are we discussing SYG again? ( I say this because Holder kept bringing it up at the NAACP)
Z didn't claim it. His lawyers never used it (though it could be used in the future for civil/federal hate crimes trials)-they stuck with the tried and true, all American self defense strategy,invoked SYG a grand total of zero times. The only people who are making this about SYG have an issue with SYG and are using this case as a vehicle to advance their interests, whatever they are.

Could it be,dubious a prospect as it may sound, that the administration is taking advantage of a tragedy to attempt to push their gun control activism?

I know, I'm skeptical too. It's not like these are the same people who paraded grieving Newtown relatives in front of the press and congress while the bodies were still warm in an attempt to further their own political agendas, but one has to examine the possibility...



_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 2022
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 5:03:27 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You forget that martin's girlfriend said he attacked Zimmerman out of homophobia imagine the reaction if Zimmerman had invited him into his truck.


Evidence ? I call bullshit so I dont expect any credible reply.

Edited to add what I am not expecting.


< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 7/19/2013 5:04:15 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 2023
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 5:14:09 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You forget that martin's girlfriend said he attacked Zimmerman out of homophobia imagine the reaction if Zimmerman had invited him into his truck.


Evidence ? I call bullshit so I dont expect any credible reply.

Edited to add what I am not expecting.


Guess I took you off hide in time to prove you have no idea what I will respond too.
Please point out were I said it was evidence.
However it is closer to evidence than the absurd argument that Zimmerman should have given him a ride and that this would have solved everything.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 2024
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 5:55:51 PM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Ok-I'm not 100% sure on the tattoo, so I'll retract that part (ETA-Teach me to do what I've been nailing others for-repeating "facts" w/o correlating re independent research. I'm looking at a cell phone pic now from the Washington Post with zero tattoos.My apologies-thanks for the correction Igor). But still, when was the last time anyone here picked up a strange six foot tall teenage youth at night? Especially if the person wasn't seeing a ride or hitching?

Just asking...


I agree that the "giving a ride to" argument is a little far fetched for me, but I can't help but think how differently things probably would have turned out if Zimmerman had simply rolled down his window and said something like, "Excuse me. Are you new in the sub division? I'm part of the Neighborhood Watch and I don't remember seeing you before."

Zimmerman could only have seen Martin in his headlights for a very few seconds at first, as he rounded that corner. I don't see how those few seconds could have been enough time to determine that Martin was "on drugs or something", and "up to no good". He DID have time to not recognize Martin and wonder if he belonged there. He should have at first asked, THEN if Martin had run Zimmerman may have had a legitimate reason for suspecting him.

_____________________________

If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy. - Red Green

At my age erections are like cops...there's never one around when you need it!

Never miss a good chance to shut up. - Will Rogers


(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 2025
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 6:02:23 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Ok-I'm not 100% sure on the tattoo, so I'll retract that part (ETA-Teach me to do what I've been nailing others for-repeating "facts" w/o correlating re independent research. I'm looking at a cell phone pic now from the Washington Post with zero tattoos.My apologies-thanks for the correction Igor). But still, when was the last time anyone here picked up a strange six foot tall teenage youth at night? Especially if the person wasn't seeing a ride or hitching?

Just asking...


I agree that the "giving a ride to" argument is a little far fetched for me, but I can't help but think how differently things probably would have turned out if Zimmerman had simply rolled down his window and said something like, "Excuse me. Are you new in the sub division? I'm part of the Neighborhood Watch and I don't remember seeing you before."

Zimmerman could only have seen Martin in his headlights for a very few seconds at first, as he rounded that corner. I don't see how those few seconds could have been enough time to determine that Martin was "on drugs or something", and "up to no good". He DID have time to not recognize Martin and wonder if he belonged there. He should have at first asked, THEN if Martin had run Zimmerman may have had a legitimate reason for suspecting him.

And I can't help wondering how it would have gone if Martin hadn't decided that Zimmerman was a homosexual creepy ass cracker who should be beaten up.
Isn't beating him up because he though the was gay and assumed that being gay he was out to rape Martin a hate crime on Martin's part?
And weren't they in Zimmerman's closed community? Didn't he have a right to walk around there anywhere he wanted?
Just to playing the game by your rules for a moment.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 7/19/2013 6:04:49 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 2026
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 6:10:37 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		You may be misreading. When Politesub says that something doesn't exist, the universe obligingly blinks it out of existence.
It simply isn't there anymore, and can be safely ignored. Like dead Indians.

Watch:
quote:

MORGAN: And he was freaked out by it?

JEANTEL: Yes. Definitely after I say may be a rapist, for every boy, for every man, every -- who's not that kind of way, seeing a grown man following them, would they be creep out? So you have to take it -- as a parent, when you tell your child, when you see a grown person following you, run away, and all that.

Would you go stand there? You going to tell your child stand there? If you tell your child stand there, we're going to see your child on the news for missing person.

(APPLAUSE)

MORGAN: Let's take another break.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/15/pmt.01.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You forget that martin's girlfriend said he attacked Zimmerman out of homophobia imagine the reaction if Zimmerman had invited him into his truck.


Evidence ? I call bullshit so I dont expect any credible reply.

Edited to add what I am not expecting.


Guess I took you off hide in time to prove you have no idea what I will respond too.
Please point out were I said it was evidence.
However it is closer to evidence than the absurd argument that Zimmerman should have given him a ride and that this would have solved everything.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 2027
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 6:14:14 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

You may be misreading. When Politesub says that something doesn't exist, the universe obligingly blinks it out of existence.
It simply isn't there anymore, and can be safely ignored. Like dead Indians.

Watch:
quote:

MORGAN: And he was freaked out by it?

JEANTEL: Yes. Definitely after I say may be a rapist, for every boy, for every man, every -- who's not that kind of way, seeing a grown man following them, would they be creep out? So you have to take it -- as a parent, when you tell your child, when you see a grown person following you, run away, and all that.

Would you go stand there? You going to tell your child stand there? If you tell your child stand there, we're going to see your child on the news for missing person.

(APPLAUSE)

MORGAN: Let's take another break.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/15/pmt.01.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You forget that martin's girlfriend said he attacked Zimmerman out of homophobia imagine the reaction if Zimmerman had invited him into his truck.


Evidence ? I call bullshit so I dont expect any credible reply.

Edited to add what I am not expecting.


Guess I took you off hide in time to prove you have no idea what I will respond too.
Please point out were I said it was evidence.
However it is closer to evidence than the absurd argument that Zimmerman should have given him a ride and that this would have solved everything.



Yes, I have dealt with politesub before, I get more rational responses from my dog.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 2028
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 6:16:09 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		You may be misreading. When Politesub says that something doesn't exist, the universe obligingly blinks it out of existence.
It simply isn't there anymore, and can be safely ignored. Like dead Indians.

Note he said a credible response. In politesubese credible = agrees with him.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 2029
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 7:09:17 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Here's one for you:






Attachment (1)

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 2030
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 7:14:28 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		I would hope that everyone would have the logical faculties to work backwards and see how easy it would have been for Zimmerman to simply make the call, and drive home, whether 'they' got away not.

But he didn't. Was it because his judgment was swayed by the dispatcher's request for more information?
Or was his wanna-be mode unleashed by perceived 'authorization?

Don't know. Both are plausible and I'm not a mind reader.

When that event cascaded into the next event, and the next, and Zimmerman was on the ground, did he calmly decide to commit a murder and go through well rehearsed screaming and emoting while wedging his way into his holster?
Did he get angry at being pummeled and fire to teach the 'punk' a lesson?
Did he panic at the thought of his own gun being taken and used on him?

Don't know. Each is plausible, and I'm not a mind reader.

But I do know that there is a million dollars waiting over at the James Randi foundation for anyone in this thread who can back up their claims to know.



quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Ok-I'm not 100% sure on the tattoo, so I'll retract that part (ETA-Teach me to do what I've been nailing others for-repeating "facts" w/o correlating re independent research. I'm looking at a cell phone pic now from the Washington Post with zero tattoos.My apologies-thanks for the correction Igor). But still, when was the last time anyone here picked up a strange six foot tall teenage youth at night? Especially if the person wasn't seeing a ride or hitching?

Just asking...


I agree that the "giving a ride to" argument is a little far fetched for me, but I can't help but think how differently things probably would have turned out if Zimmerman had simply rolled down his window and said something like, "Excuse me. Are you new in the sub division? I'm part of the Neighborhood Watch and I don't remember seeing you before."

Zimmerman could only have seen Martin in his headlights for a very few seconds at first, as he rounded that corner. I don't see how those few seconds could have been enough time to determine that Martin was "on drugs or something", and "up to no good". He DID have time to not recognize Martin and wonder if he belonged there. He should have at first asked, THEN if Martin had run Zimmerman may have had a legitimate reason for suspecting him.



_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 2031
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 7:24:02 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Another detail from the Tampa Bay Times data on SYG:

Where the victim was killed, the dispostion of the cases broken down by race of the accused shows the following...

Black accused - 11 convicted, 24 justified, 9 pending
White accused - 25 convicted, 40 justified, 11 pending

Source

K.


Something about that article has been bugging me.... now I realize what it is.

Take a look at the list TampaBay gave....

Did Zimmerman use SYG or not?

If not, as so many insist, why is he on that list? And how many others are erroneously on that list?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 2032
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 7:39:41 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Powergamz1

I would hope that everyone would have the logical faculties to work backwards and see how easy it would have been for Zimmerman to simply make the call, and drive home, whether 'they' got away not.

But he didn't. Was it because his judgment was swayed by the dispatcher's request for more information?
Or was his wanna-be mode unleashed by perceived 'authorization?

Don't know. Both are plausible and I'm not a mind reader.

When that event cascaded into the next event, and the next, and Zimmerman was on the ground, did he calmly decide to commit a murder and go through well rehearsed screaming and emoting while wedging his way into his holster?
Did he get angry at being pummeled and fire to teach the 'punk' a lesson?
Did he panic at the thought of his own gun being taken and used on him?

Don't know. Each is plausible, and I'm not a mind reader.

But I do know that there is a million dollars waiting over at the James Randi foundation for anyone in this thread who can back up their claims to know.



quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Ok-I'm not 100% sure on the tattoo, so I'll retract that part (ETA-Teach me to do what I've been nailing others for-repeating "facts" w/o correlating re independent research. I'm looking at a cell phone pic now from the Washington Post with zero tattoos.My apologies-thanks for the correction Igor). But still, when was the last time anyone here picked up a strange six foot tall teenage youth at night? Especially if the person wasn't seeing a ride or hitching?

Just asking...


I agree that the "giving a ride to" argument is a little far fetched for me, but I can't help but think how differently things probably would have turned out if Zimmerman had simply rolled down his window and said something like, "Excuse me. Are you new in the sub division? I'm part of the Neighborhood Watch and I don't remember seeing you before."

Zimmerman could only have seen Martin in his headlights for a very few seconds at first, as he rounded that corner. I don't see how those few seconds could have been enough time to determine that Martin was "on drugs or something", and "up to no good". He DID have time to not recognize Martin and wonder if he belonged there. He should have at first asked, THEN if Martin had run Zimmerman may have had a legitimate reason for suspecting him.



Why did Martin call his GF and not 911?
Why when he got home and had lost Zimmerman did he not escape without doubling back on him?
And why did he attack Zimmerman?
Youe questions are valid but you need to consider the things to.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Powergamz1)
Profile   Post #: 2033
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 7:44:16 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Something about that article has been bugging me.... now I realize what it is.

Take a look at the list TampaBay gave....

Did Zimmerman use SYG or not?

If not, as so many insist, why is he on that list? And how many others are erroneously on that list?

Good call, tazzygirl.

K.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 2034
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 7:45:50 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Here's one for you:

We're talking about a case down here on Earth, cloudboy.

K.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 2035
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 7:56:12 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Something about that article has been bugging me.... now I realize what it is.

Take a look at the list TampaBay gave....

Did Zimmerman use SYG or not?

If not, as so many insist, why is he on that list? And how many others are erroneously on that list?

Good call, tazzygirl.

K.

There exists the small possibility the newspaper is incorrect in their assertion re Z.
I know it would be the first time a media outlet has erred,especially in the minor area of SYG, but once has to consider all avenues...

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 2036
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 8:09:27 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~smirks

Im not looking for smoking guns here. However, if a news organization is going to throw facts around, they should be factually correct.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 2037
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 8:10:32 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Good call, tazzygirl.

There exists the small possibility the newspaper is incorrect in their assertion re Z.
I know it would be the first time a media outlet has erred,especially in the minor area of SYG, but once has to consider all avenues...

However unthinkable, it does seem to be a remote possibility, since SYG was not Z's defense.

K.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 2038
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 8:23:31 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~smirks

Im not looking for smoking guns here. However, if a news organization is going to throw facts around, they should be factually correct.


Which has been 1/2 my beef for the last 102 pages and 18 months. My question is why haven't they been?

I'd like to say that it's about selling papers and ratings, which it is to some extent, but it's also rapidly becoming clearer that this about gun control, specifically SYG.

Which is morally and ethically repugnant.To repeatedly use tragedies as an excuse to advance a political agenda, to spread lies and defamation, to parade victims and their heart broken kin in order to advance a political agenda is just despicable.

And when doing so inflames already sensitive issues,when it leads to looting in the streets, businesses burned (Not a lot of them, but tell it to the poor guy standing in the ashes of their dreams.), when it leads to withholding of evidence and tearing up civil liberties, yeah, that's just wrong. Even by the low low threshold of American political standards it's wrong.
It kinda reminds me of the guy who, under attack, grabs a baby and uses it as a shield. Disgusting, right?
But that's exactly what's happening, except now that baby is sword and shield.

For some reason, that doesn't seem to bother a whole lot of people.Don't know why. Scares piss out of me, I'll tell you that.

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 2039
RE: UNMODERATED ZIMMERMAN - 7/19/2013 8:32:01 PM   
Powergamz1


Posts: 1927
Joined: 9/3/2011
Status: offline 		When people think of the media making a profit from the misery of other people, I often wonder if they are using the imagery of farming... the media plants seeds of discord, and reaps harvests of sensationalized events to 'report' on.

Or the visual of vultures circling.

Lately though, I keep having flashes of jackals dragging down a baby zebra and shredding it with their teeth.

_____________________________

"DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the equal liberty of persons that is protected by the Fifth Amendment" Anthony McLeod Kennedy

" About damn time...wooot!!' Me

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 2040
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