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RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 8:03:15 AM

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yes LaTigresse you are right,trying to figure out to hold my life together as a whole is the hard part,its all a balancing act,a combination of bdsm, vanilla ,family friends work, that most of us have to do, is hard , as for myself i prefer a 6" heel on my groin to being tickled like they said different strokes for different folks have a great day.......

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 8:09:56 AM

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Bitch Goddesses are erotic because they are the opposite of most
vanilla stereotypes.
If they were not different what would be the point here?
Most of us here are not seeking vanilla, which means we are not looking
for the sweet, little woman that will bake us pies, and whose main focus in life
is to please other people.
I identify as a switch, but I enjoy the submissive role.
When I submit, my focus is on taking care of and pleasing my Dominant.
If someone is looking for Doris Day or Mary Poppins, they should probably go to E harmony.

< Message edited by RaynaSub -- 6/3/2007 8:24:01 AM >

(in reply to bts4lfe)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 8:27:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Many strong women are called bitches, unlike their strong male counterparts.

I spose it depends on what you mean by "strong." I think there's a diff between being "strong" and being a "bitch." Physically strong? Resistant? Uncooperative? demanding? loud-mouthed? something else?

In terms of "strong women are called bitches, unlike their strong male counterparts." I disagree, we call males who are the counterparts of bitches "assholes," and "bastards."

_____________________________

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(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 9:11:14 AM

MzMia

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I think of myself as a strong Dominant woman, that is capable of acting like a bitch and acting like a peacemaker.
There are few if any absolutes in life.
I don’t know of anyone that is a bitch or is nice, 24 hours a day.
The Dominant woman has the choice of being and acting the way she wants! Imagine that!
At work, I am constantly asked why I tend to smile a lot and have such a happy attitude.
In my family, I am one of the few people that is on good terms with everyone, on both sides of the family.
I could go on and on, but believe me in real life I am known for being a fairly nice person, who tends to smile a lot.
Now, the way I conduct business in the bedroom or with a submissive is between us.
In a consensual lifestyle relationship what we do and agree upon is between us.
If I want to keep him naked, working 24/7, eating out of a dog bowl and sleeping on the kitchen floor at night and he agrees to do it,
That is between us.

I don't know what part of consensual people miss here?
If you don't like or want a strong bitchlike Mistress don't get one!

There are plenty, and I do mean plenty that want them.

Funny thing is some of the women here known as Bitch Goddesses are some of the nicest people on the earth.
Some of the so called "nice" Dominants are some of the sneakest, backstabbing, mean spirited women on earth.
Whenever I meet someone that claims to be the "nicest" person I will ever meet, I run for the hills.
My point IS, very few of us are 100% nice or 100% bitch or 100% anything.
My kink may not be your kink, but no ones kink is better than anyone else’s.
When we learn to really accept other people and just enjoy our lives, we all will be better off.
What I find interesting is you will rarely see this endless debate among Male Dominants.
The fact that this is such an ever present topic, smacks of sexism and inequality among the sexes.
Male Dominants hardly or rarely have to defend being strong or defending their personalities.
The age old debate about how a lady must or should act?
I don't come here or spend my life telling or worrying how other people should act or behave.
If you are really so nice and sweet all the time-be that way.
If you enjoy being not so nice all the time-be that way.
I myself am a shades of gray person, I am totally submissive and will give the shirt off my back or last penny to many that
I care about and love....but I can be that bitch Goddess when I want to be.

And I fucking LOVE both sides of me.

I am thankful that I can successfully manage both sides in the real world and I do not have to ever pick a side!
Now in my best Mae West voice “When I am good I am bad, and when I am bad I am better.”
Now let me go be a bad bitch and enjoy my day.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 6/3/2007 9:30:41 AM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 9:15:03 AM

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Each submissive or slave has a picture of his or her idea of the "perfect" Femmedomme, which may or may not be grounded in reality. With porno, we expect to see the most over-the-top, radical examplies of cruel, sadistic, bitchy and very beautiful women dressed in fetish attire with whip in hand. This is something that we don't see every day on the street because it is forbidden. And the very idea that it is forbidden is partly why it is so exciting. Also, this is atypical of woman's role in society, which makes her so much more sought-after.

While we may not want, or may not be able to satisfy, a cold and cruel Femmedomme, it is a wonderful fantasy nonetheless. And, like what many others have written on this topic, I believe that most would like to meet someone who can balance that side of their personality with a caring and compassionate side.

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"What I lack in wisdom and intelligence, I more than make up or with age."

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 9:21:55 AM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: addicted2it

Each submissive or slave has a picture of his or her idea of the "perfect" Femmedomme, which may or may not be grounded in reality. With porno, we expect to see the most over-the-top, radical examplies of cruel, sadistic, bitchy and very beautiful women dressed in fetish attire with whip in hand. This is something that we don't see every day on the street because it is forbidden. And the very idea that it is forbidden is partly why it is so exciting. Also, this is atypical of woman's role in society, which makes her so much more sought-after.

While we may not want, or may not be able to satisfy, a cold and cruel Femmedomme, it is a wonderful fantasy nonetheless. And, like what many others have written on this topic, I believe that most would like to meet someone who can balance that side of their personality with a caring and compassionate side.

Very well stated! Most men do indeed seek both sides.
We all are lucky when we find the balance we want in a partner.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to addicted2it)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 9:28:22 AM

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Actually given what I know about the history of pornography I would say that the pornographic image, created by a very small group of men originally, in turn generated the fantasies because it was the only thing available.

When I write a character who is the type described in the OP in my fiction, she is not the hero, she is the villian. Some people do find that hot, I've gotten emails from them, but most people who read what I write find the real hero more interesting and a woman they can relate to better.

Of course, I'm not writing porn (in my opinion) but erotica.

Until we as a community stop reading/viewing porn and buying porn we wil keep promoting the stereotypes of what women in BDSM are like. I see, hear, and read time and again that that rarely works for very long. Porn can have its place but it needs to be countered with reality and honesty.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 10:56:29 AM

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I am not convinced the term Bitch Goddess means the same thing to all people.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to MHOO314)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 11:07:08 AM

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Hi Sea..... Nothing means the same to all people, i guess thats why confusion arises on here. im glad though as it means im constantly evaluating my viewpoints.

(in reply to undergroundsea)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 11:28:08 AM

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Let's talk about consensus reality for a moment. When each of us learns a new word, we don't always consult the dictionary for the definition, but rather we often learn the meaning from the context of what we are reading or hearing. Semantics is the study of meanings and the historical and psychological impact that these words have, as well as the classification of change within linguistic development.

When using the word in many different sentences or contexts, there might be many definitions or interpretations of that word. Ad to that the understanding that language is always evolving.

It is particularly difficult to find a definition of a word or words that are the nomenclature of a relatively new subject, such as BDSM. Therefore, we are all adrift when trying to define and understand labels which define the concepts in this particular jonra.

When we gather together on a message board or in any type of social setting, it brings us closer together, not only regarding interpersonal relationship and topics, but we also develop a consesus with regard to the meaning of the terminology used here.

Just my two cents worth.

_____________________________

"What I lack in wisdom and intelligence, I more than make up or with age."

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RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 12:26:50 PM

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We are hot because we have the courage to do and say what we feel, demand what we want, and react accordingly when things dont go our way.

Most people can't and won't do that.

That's sexy. You may not like us but you sure as hell want us.

(in reply to addicted2it)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 1:32:19 PM

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For me there has to be a balance between the two. I think that balance is what makes the Bitch in me all the more cruel. Of course I can go from sweet to Bitch in about .2 seconds quite easily. Yeah Me!

Perhaps the problem with this type of porn is that it's been produced by males for years and therefore that's the standard. Not that I've ever seen one bit of it (kicks about 20 DVDs under the desk out of site), nope, not a single second of it. I'm speaking purely from what others have told me and not from my own personal knowledge whatsoever.

It's their vision of the unattainable. While many men may fantasize on that BitchGoddess, I feel that very few are going to want to be involved in a committed D/s relationship with someone that doesn't have the balance between cruel/kind on a 24/7basis.

I agree with MzMia. I've been called a Bitch within my corporate career more times than I can count. Both behind my back and to my face. (I've been called a Bitch in my personal life as well, although quite lovingly.) While a male that is ruthless and cold within the corporate world may be an asshole or a bastard peepeegirl, he's also admired by his colleagues for being so. He's rarely called either thing to his face. The female equivalent within the corporate world is rarely admired or respected, she's simply a Bitch. They just start to shudder and wet their pants, trying to stay out of my way. How about one little example..Donald Trump vs Leona Helmsley. One of whom is an asshole, but a very respected and admired asshole. The other...eh, not so much respected or admired, just a Class A Bitch in the eyes of the public.

I speak my mind, without being concerned what anyone is going to think of it. I live my life the same way. I'm selfish, if that's what someone wants to call it, and I have no problem in saying so. Personally I simply look at it as having specific things I want and I'm not going to compromise on them. I have high standards for those I allow into My life...that isn't something I'm willing to qualify or bend on in order to simply be in a relationship. I would rather go without being in one than to settle for less. If this all makes me a BitchGoddess than I guess I'll be getting a new name plate engraved. My friends can call me BG for short.

quote:

Take for example cuckolding. The central female figure is always the same - faithless, cruel, humiliating and usually a money hungry slut as well. Not a conventionally "nice" woman at all. And yet, millions of malesubs (and - lets admit it - some of us Dommes) find that incredibly erotic.

LOL true this is very much the visual that seems to be present but that isn't Me. Ok I'll go with cruel and humiliating but I think there's a huge difference between being sexually unfaithful and being emotionally unfaithful. I look at it as embracing my sexual nature and not being confined within societies standards on monogamy. Frankly if it wasn't concentual the cuck would simply walk out the door and not look back. he chooses to stay, chooses to love Her regardless and accept that this is part of the relationship that he desires just as much as she does. The fact is that it is concentual. Not to mention hot as all hell.

On a final note, perhaps the fantasy of BitchGoddess is so desired because so many males think that that's what it takes for them to submit. they find her so erotic because it's the only time they're really allowed to be "weak". Even then, it isn't actually their fault...it's that Damned Woman's. Throughout their lives they've been expected within society to be strong, to never show fear, to not cry or be emotional because to do so makes them less of a man and undesirable. Personally I think it takes a stronger man to be able to show that he's capable of going outside of those societal bounds within a relationship...but then my sig line pretty much sums it up for me.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 1:36:44 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: addicted2it

Therefore, we are all adrift when trying to define and understand labels which define the concepts in this particular jonra.

It's genre.

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to addicted2it)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 2:05:41 PM

aidan

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A few people have already echoed my feeling: I don't understand why there can't be a balance. Why can't you love and care about the person you're being a cruel, mean bitch to?

I have Dominant friends who are affectionate and loving to their boys even while they are doing the most sadistic, evil things to them. They do and take what they want, but still care about whether their boys are happy and healthy, because they want to continue doing and taking with them. The old adage of broken toys and whatnot.

It's hard for me to wrap my around letting somebody "abuse" me when I didn't care about them. It's even harder to imagine doing it to somebody I didn't care about.

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RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 3:09:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPayne

We are hot because we have the courage to do and say what we feel, demand what we want, and react accordingly when things dont go our way.

Most people can't and won't do that.

That's sexy. You may not like us but you sure as hell want us.

I quite disagree--Rosa Parks, Amelia Earhart, Margaret Brent, Lucretia Mott, Olga Shcaap, and Belle Boyd all had the courage to do and say what they felt, demanded what they wanted and reacted accordingly and there wasn't a bitch goddess among them---however Bonnie Parker, Paris Hilton, Cleopatra, Mary Queen of Scots, and Ann Coulter all do the same---and well....

I just think that may work well now, however, if that is all a BG exhibits, when they get old they will be what all men HATE---a shrew---

smiles

< Message edited by MHOO314 -- 6/3/2007 3:12:21 PM >

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RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 4:05:08 PM

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Well, I suppose I made a little sense after all, when posting last night.

I don't mind it one bit if she's a bitch from time to time, or acts like one if it flat does it for her. It does very little for me, but...due to the nature of these relationships...it isn't about me. However, it's very rare that I make first contact with a dominant woman; I would never even consider it if she seemed like she was a 24/7 bitch. If she stated she enjoyed it, yet did not seem like a total bitch to me, though, that's not a problem.

-Einzelgänger

< Message edited by Einzelganger -- 6/3/2007 4:08:35 PM >

(in reply to MHOO314)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 6:54:02 PM

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I am not sure if I would call myself a Bitch Goddess, but at times I can be
a real bitch.
I don't know of that many women that at times can't act like a bitch.
Why is the idea of a Bitch Goddess so erotic?
I think it is because it is the opposite of what mainstream society tells women
they should act like.
As it has been mentioned before, it is the opposite of the little woman in the kitchen
baking cookies and placing everyone elses needs before her needs.
The Bitch Goddess/Mistress is that woman that can take charge, stay in charge and
put submissives in their place.

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 6:55:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

This thread probably belongs in Ask a Submissive but I will pop it here because it relates to femdom relationships.

[Please note: this thread is about sexual D/s, not service or friendship based D/s]

Reading this forum, you would get the impression that a Domme is a nurturing, considerate and kind women who puts her submissive's health and happiness before her own. She "takes her responsibilities" as a Domme seriously and truly treasures his gift of submission. She never, ever does anything without his willing consent.

That is very nice. It sits well with mainstream social conventions that women should be "nurturing" and "unselfish". It is - to my mind - virtually vanilla and that might be a good thing if you are trying to sustain a long term D/s relationship.

BUT

Take a look at any BDSM Femdom porn and what do we see? Evil Mommies and Bitch Goddesses. Deliberate merciless cruelty to men. Imagery of cold, mocking and sadistic women strutting around their dungeons in skimpy black fetishwear, weilding instruments of torture. Not once have I seen or read Femdom porn that included negotiation, consent or safewords.

And you know what? I love it!! BDSM porn is hot!

I bet porn is what got most of us here. We were exposed to Femdom fantasies and it made us horny as all hell. We might be socially abnormal (even "sick"?), but we are not alone. Millions of us abolutely love Femdom porn.

Which leads me to my question: WHY do we find female cruelty to men so erotic? I am not saying we act out - or should act out - these Femdom fantasies, but why do we get our rocks off reading about women being really nasty to men? Kidnap, imprisonment, torture, humiliation, emotional and physical abuse - we LOVE it!!!

Take for example cuckolding. The central female figure is always the same - faithless, cruel, humiliating and usually a money hungry slut as well. Not a conventionally "nice" woman at all. And yet, millions of malesubs (and - lets admit it - some of us Dommes) find that incredibly erotic.

You might say 'well its not real cruelty (so we are all fake?) because the malesub really wants it and he can safeword any time he likes'

Yes. And in my experience, in real life malesubs find it pretty unsatisfying having a Mistress who only does what he wants. It doesn't match the eroticism of being forced by a Femdom to submit to her will against your own

I have my own theories why malesubs sexualise the Bitch Goddess archetype but I would like your opinion. Why do malesubs find Femdoms sexier than conventionally "nice" ladies? What does it for you?

Hello Ms. Cfrom Melbourne

It depends on their definition of bitch. the sterotypical conventional definition is negative.
however, to others it says power, resillence, strength, seduction, etc. I believe the latter.

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m y s p a c e

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 6:58:34 PM

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The term bitch goddess makes me think of a woman with a harsh attitude devoid of compassion. I do not equate strength of personality with being a bitch. Strength of personality when used selfishly (unless that selfishness is wanted) and without compassion does amount to a bitchy attitude in my eyes. In my opinion, sometimes this persona is a facade that does not have strength of personality behind it. I agree with Peepeegirl5 that men who demonstrate similar behavior are not exempt and are considered assholes, or bastards, or pricks.

The appeal in this persona is that it touches some cores of emotional masochism and submission. It is a hot way to touch these cores because it has a rawness to it. That said, it is not the only way to touch these cores. Also, this persona makes for a strong fantasy because it represents one of the first awakenings of submissive desires. Mainstream films or stories that had such a character intrigued me. It was possible to see this character going against what society teaches us about what is nice, thoughtful behavior and give orders or practice sadism. Before I found a way to find dommes, this persona was the closest possibility and found its way especially in early fantasies.

While this persona may carry some fantasy or D/s appeal (I can see myself having a play relationship--versus a broader relationship--with a woman who adopts such a persona towards me), I don't consider it to be a good match for the long-term relationship or a romantic relationship I seek.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 6/3/2007 7:17:02 PM >

(in reply to Einzelganger)

RE: Why are Bitch Goddesses so erotic? - 6/3/2007 7:13:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea
While this persona may carry some fantasy or D/s appeal, I don't consider it to be a good match for the long-term relationship or a romantic relationship I seek.

I recall a time when I had two service dates on successive days with two different personas, and reflecting upon and contrasting my experience with each. One domme was compassionate and kind. The other was selfish and more like the bitch goddess. I had a more fulfilling experience with the one who was compassionate.

The matter is not black and white and personas alone are one factor in the equation. With the compassion also was passion and some amount of chemistry. My experience with the compassionate domme connected with a broader part of me. I find good interpersonal compatibility with her (greater commonality) and consider her a more compatible partner for play and a broader relationship between the two. What gives more power to this statement is that the compassionate woman is gay whereas the other is heterosexual, which in itself would suggest the opposite for compatibility.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to undergroundsea)

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