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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 6:11:02 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		I don't see domiguy around sooooooo

You're naive.  You're young and stupid :)

On the other hand..I can't spell so it's all good .

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 6:11:34 PM   
mpnaleksandra2


Posts: 24
Joined: 1/10/2006
Status: offline 		Great point.

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 6:17:18 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		I hope i didnt sound rude...it's just in my own life i view my submission as an agreement...a commitment...much like my marriage....its a relationship...i do feel like knowing Him (my Master) is a gift...and i'm glad i have it....

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 6:18:32 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline

[/quote]



In general I think the term gift of submission is more commonly used by newbies and I think it's a good idea for them to use it. Sub frenzy can make smart people make stupid mistakes, if you can think of yourself as a gift you might think twice before giving that gift to someone unworthy of it. And if a newbie dom thinks of the sub in terms of a gift maybe he'll take the time to double check what he wants to try on her instead of diving in with no knowledge and making a bad mistake.
[/quote]

even if it isnt refered to as a gift isnt the idea still there? i wouldnt know as i am a newbie but generally a submissive wouldnt submit to anyone would they?

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 6:25:16 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

I hope i didnt sound rude...it's just in my own life i view my submission as an agreement...a commitment...much like my marriage....its a relationship...i do feel like knowing Him (my Master) is a gift...and i'm glad i have it....


I suppose I simply don't see how calling it "gift" cheapens the commitment. Valyraen feels blessed to have me in his life as I feel so very blessed to have him. I truely feel like we are giving each other something. Now, I do agree the phrase sounds like something from an erotic story but.. *shrugs* I can't bring myself to fault it because the line of thinking makes sense to me. I, like you, feel as though each day with him is a gift.

Underneath the snark I've always been very sentimental.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)
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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 6:27:25 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Colouredin, you hope not but people who for whatever reason have never gotten to act out long term fantasies tend to jump in over their heads and let their common sense disappear. And it's hard not to when you've gone to bed for years dreaming of some tall, dark stranger sweeping you up, tying you up and having his wicked (and very satisfying) way with you. When someone comes along and actually wants to do that, especially if you've timidly hinted at it in a past relationship and been told you're sick for wanting such a thing, well that isn't when we normally step back and start looking the gift horse in the mouth. But we should.

No, you don't submit to anybody and everybody but just like meeting someone in the real world, we've all gone to bed with presumed princes and woken up in the morning to discover he was actually a frog. Plus the stakes are higher here. The time to discover he doesn't know how to swing a whip without cutting your skin is not when you're all tied up and he's not listening to your safe word.

(in reply to colouredin)
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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 6:45:35 PM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		I'm sorry but i dont think i mentioned anything being cheapened... thats not how i intended it to come across.

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 7:09:58 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

I'm sorry but i dont think i mentioned anything being cheapened... thats not how i intended it to come across.


You didn't. I misinterpreted something, I apologize. I thought when you were saying that you viewed your submission as a commitment, it was a comparative statement with those who view it as a gift of sorts. Again, sorry.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 7:22:01 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956


Sorry I'm being snarky.  I've just about had it with the clueless advice givers and critics.  See other thread.

E.


lmao

_____________________________

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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Emperor1956)
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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 7:22:37 PM   
sublimelysensual


Posts: 298
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		-Fast Reply-
 
My problem with the whole "submission is a gift" thing, is the same as earthycouple's..too many s-types use it as a get out of jail free card, or a way to hold their submission over a Dominants head. Personally speaking, a gift to me is something given freely without expectations/assumptions of receiving something in return. I have yet to meet an s-type who submits to someone without expecting something in return, even something as simple as being dominated. Yes, a good relationship is a gift for both parties, but the keyword there is both.. just my two cents..
 
-a

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(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 7:25:08 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		My problem with this notion is link to how people can use gifts to manipulate. We can give gifts because we're supposed to. We can give gifts to try and out-do each other. We can give gifts to true and buy love/accptance or whatever. Gifts should be given freely, with no strings. The acceptance of a gift should not then obligate the person recieving in any way. So, if submission is given like this, then it is a gift.

However, I know very few people who will, or can, give this freely. When we do something "nice" for someone, we're often expecting something in return. I don't often buy that most people who use that phrase really understand what it's supposed to mean. So, I have doubts that people recognize what they're saying. I think most people are giving the "gift of submission" with the intent to exchange it for something else...in which case, it's not a gift, it's a barter. Now, bartering, and doing it knowingly and honestly, is healthy.

Master Fire


_____________________________

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(in reply to mpnaleksandra2)
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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 7:32:42 PM   
YourShyPet


Posts: 185
Joined: 6/30/2006
Status: offline 		I really have no opinion on the whole submission is a "gift"..... I only know that for me it has to be given.

kittin

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 7:38:04 PM   
welshwmn3


Posts: 126
Joined: 3/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual

-Fast Reply-
 
My problem with the whole "submission is a gift" thing, is the same as earthycouple's..too many s-types use it as a get out of jail free card, or a way to hold their submission over a Dominants head. Personally speaking, a gift to me is something given freely without expectations/assumptions of receiving something in return. I have yet to meet an s-type who submits to someone without expecting something in return, even something as simple as being dominated. Yes, a good relationship is a gift for both parties, but the keyword there is both.. just my two cents..
 
-a


It would seem to me, though, that if people act like earthycouple's former sub did, then they aren't really giving gifts.  Gifts (in my world at least) are freely given, no strings attached, and are not subject to revocation whenever the giver feels like it.


(in reply to sublimelysensual)
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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 7:38:34 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Wrong.  Anyone who refers to it as a "gift" is violating the very clear rules laid down the the Big Book of Everything.

Why are people so poorly informed?

quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

I don't see anything wrong with a Dominant feeling as though he has received a gift, or a submissive feeling as though she has given a gift if they both choose to feel that way.  Everyone is always free to perceive it any way they wish to.

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 7:55:00 PM   
CdnExplorer


Posts: 227
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline 		I think the real issue is people calling it a gift but then don't treat it as such. For me yes, my submission is a gift...in the same way that my love would be. I don't love just anyone, and neither would I submit to just anyone. While I feel it is a need for me it isn't on the same level as say...breathing. I've learned to live and be relatively happy as a single person so not submitting to someone isn't going to kill me either.

Maybe people who *really* see it as a gift place a lot more commitment in a D/s relationship than others? Any sub who uses the gift idea as a club sounds a bit self centered, I think. That's like threatening to break up with your significant other as leverage in an argument. Don't use that unless you're really serious about it heh, otherwise you're just being a jerk and don't deserve to be with the partner you're trying to gain the upper hand on.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 8:08:30 PM   
darchChylde


Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline 		damn, here i am recycling old posts... this is my post from the "It ain't a gift" thread back in december

i personally really liked my post in that thread, which had been recycled from another thread about hair color of all things, so i'm happy to recycle it

my submission to someone is not a gift, or a right; it's closer to a prize, though that isn't exactly it either... Ma'am has earned my submission, not by dominating me or any type of sex or scene; but by simply being who She is and making me feel safe and secure and loved... She didn't take control or demand it, i freely offered it with a trust that She'll do what is best for me, to guide and train me to be better not as a submissive, but as a man

i know that many of the things that She does or has me do will be unpleasant, but i love Her and trust Her that in the end it will make me stronger and make us work better as a family, will bring us closer

i believe that this is merely a question of terminology, and that it's up to each individual, or couple, or group as to how they choose to look at their relationship


_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

(in reply to CdnExplorer)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 8:18:32 PM   
goodgirl85


Posts: 221
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline 		I think maybe the whole idea of submission being a gift, is that you don't submit to just anyone. You don't submit to every Tom, Dick and Harry you met. Submission in and of itself for a sub is normally part of her/his genetic makeup.

But  in the BDSM realm of the world  a relationship requires trust and understanding so much deeper than that of most vanilla relationships. So to give yourself to someone, to chose that One who pushes your buttons, and makes your skin tingle when He places His hand on your lower back, however innocent the act may be, to say to someone, I trust you completly with my life, my soul, my heart, my everything.... well... I would take that as a gift no matter the dynamics of the relationship, BDSM wise or vanilla....

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 8:30:15 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Aquatic you've GOT to stop this trend of using terms I dislike in reasonable and positive ways :)

Do I believe the good things in life are things we can consider gifts to ourselves?  Absolutely.

Do I believe we should be grateful for the things we have to share about ourselves, and grateful for the gifts we give to ourselves and others in our lives?  Again, absolutely.

Do I believe this is what people mean when they start to discuss "submission is a gift?"  99% of the time, no.

Yes, please, celebrate who you are, celebrate what you share of yourself and what is shared with you.  But that "gift" is the same as any wonderful blessing there is in yourself and the world.  Nothing different from what a vanilla or dominant or anyone else has in terms of preciousness.

_____________________________

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to goodgirl85)
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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 10:08:23 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

I hope i didnt sound rude...it's just in my own life i view my submission as an agreement...a commitment...much like my marriage....its a relationship...i do feel like knowing Him (my Master) is a gift...and i'm glad i have it....


The problem with this logic is that is appears you view it as HIM giving you a gift, and it sounds as though your submission isn't "worthy" of being a called a gift.  If I am misreading it, I'm sorry.  It just came across that way to me.

There have been some valid points on both sides made.  I believe that it is a "gift" on both sides.  Not necessarily one that each gives the other, maybe a gift from the fates or whatever that each was lucky to find the other and thereby find happiness.

It would seem that the concept that one gives the "gift" of submission may have gotten started to sharpen the point that it isn't something that everyone in the room gets, but just that special one.  A way of protecting oneself from those who would think that a submissive should be submissive to everyone?  Just a thought, haven't researched it.  I, like so many others, feel that if the people involved in it being a "gift" are ok with it, what right does anyone else have to snicker and say it is a crock?

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 10:52:11 PM   
octavia


Posts: 377
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline 		Personally,
I have used that term.  It isn't about maintaining control, trump card or anything else.  It is simply a way for this newbie ( as has been mentioned) to communicate that I realize I have value and I am not going to give it to just anyone.  When I do submit, it will be given, not just dangled like a carrot. 
  I am also aware that the release of my power to another reduces my responsiblity somewhat and increases theirs.. that is how I have experienced it anyway.  I consider that attention and care, that we call dominance, a great gift.  As great as the gift of submission if not greater.  Term it however you want to, what little of it I have experienced has left me hungry for more. 

BTW,I have heard that a gift is something you give someone that you want them to have, and a present is something you give them that they want to have.   Just a thought that has always stuck with me




(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 40
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