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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/6/2007 11:20:33 PM   
ready4srvce4all


Posts: 767
Joined: 3/9/2007
Status: offline 		Just from a novice's perspective.  How each couple perceives their relationship is their own dynamic.  But to call my submission a gift seems odd to me. 

I view it in this manner:  Each person has a need.  A Dominant needs a submissive, a submissive needs a Dominant.  One switch has to be in the up position, the other in the down position.  And so on it goes, one needs and fulfills the other.

We provide something for each other.  A service if you will. With that thought, instead of saying something like, "Gift of submission"  use that same terminology in everyday circumstances, where one person is thanking the other for a various "gift", despite the fact it is nothing more than an expected service.

"Thank you for the gift of vaccinating my dog."
"Thank you for the gift of serving my food."
"Thank you for the gift of sanitizing my bowling shoes."

Now to equate a relationship with the above may be apples and oranges.  My thoughts are, they are apples and apples.  I have a need that Mistress fulfills.  Mistress has a need that I fulfill.  Some may want to call that a gift, and that's fine for them. But when I offer Mistress a gift, I think of Godiva chocolates. I don't think of my submission as a gift. It's who I am.

I often wonder if the thinking that submission is a "gift" has to do with that submissives are often on the receiving end of play.  For instance, I enjoy the fire play Mistress and I engaged in.  Does that mean because I am the one being set on fire, I am providing a gift?  To reuse the analogy, does that mean I walk up to the local bowling alley attendant, offer my "gift" of submission, and let that person set me on fire?  That would be folly, because Mistress knows what She is doing, and I have explicit trust in Her knowledge and skill in that area.  Isn't She then providing the gift, by virtue that a form of risky play I enjoy is being done by an expert practitioner in the craft?

Dominance and submission also isn't just about play, IMHO.  When I mow the lawn, do the laundry, clean the house, or any other task that pleases Her, are they gifts?  If so, does that  mean I can choose when I want to give that gift again? 

My need is to be owned, and to serve.  If that need is a gift, couldn't I have just knocked on any neighbor's door, and simply said, "I am your gift.  Use me as you see fit."  That sounds like the kind of trolling email we read about so often.

I simply can't equate my being to something that conjures up images of a box with a bow and a ribbon on it. I am a person. I want love, care, respect.  I am a slave, I want to serve, honor, and obey. I'm not next years yard sale item.  I'm much more than that.  I am half of a whole, just as special, but not more so. 

(edited for spelling...this was not intended as a direct reply to any particular poster, other than to throw my two cents in for the thread)

< Message edited by ready4srvce4all -- 6/6/2007 11:26:17 PM >

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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 1:20:48 AM   
Indemnis


Posts: 179
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline 		(Fast reply)
I think my submission is something precious and something to be cherished, as a gift would be.  I also feel my D gifts me his dominance, his love and care.. his gifts are also to be cherished.  It appears I am the minority here (do I get benefits? :o )  but I do indeed think my submission is a gift; something of my own to give to someone else in the hope it will make them happy, hopes that it will make them smile.  It isn't something arrogant IMO, just the way it is given in my mind...

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 4:15:37 AM   
stella40


Posts: 417
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: London, UK
Status: offline 		Gift of submission? Hmmm. No, not really.

Oh yes (and I admit I have thought this way myself once) the gift of 'twue' submission, so precious, so valuable that you bestow your 'gift' on your Dominant in much the same way as the Queen bestows a knighthood on a citizen. Poppycock!

This is nothing more than arrogance from the side of the submissive, the big favour. No it isn't. There are no favours. Just two people, two roles, and an agreement to take on one or the other role.

Don't get me wrong, submission when it is genuine and real and comes from the heart is precious, it is valuable and to be appreciated, but so too is the time, attention, effort and feelings etc invested into any relationship by a Dominant. And nothing to me can be ever as valuable as the chance or opportunity of the right Dominant for you to show your submission.

IMO submission cannot be a gift. A gift, is something like a bunch of flowers, a box of chocolates, a watch, it is complete, whole,and finished.

Submission to me is a process. It is where you take all those promises you made to your Dominant and you work at fulfilling each and every one. It is opening up yourself to your Dominant, it is laying yourself bare and vulnerable, so that your Dominant can come into that vulnerable part of you and take control.

It is working on the relationship to make it possible, to make anything your Dominant wants possible, and it is showing your Dominant that not only do you accept their control and their authority but you are also worthy and deserving of their attention.

Calling yourself Mistress X or Master Y doesn't make you a Dominant, and neither does calling yourself a submissive or a slave make you a submissive. Words can be very beautiful and pretty, but they come cheap and nothing is as precious in a relationship as actions which back up those beautiful words.

Words can arouse interest and open a mind, but it's the actions behind the words which are the currency which is needed for the precious commodities of friendship, trust and confidence needed for a successful relationship.

Yes, submission can be truly precious and valuable - when it is sincere and honest and genuine. The gift of submission isn't a gift at all but an empty promise, and rather like a good wine, a malt whisky or even a tree, submission grows with time and becomes more precious and valuable the longer it lasts.

Submission to me is nothing more than a choice, in that I can choose who I can be submissive with.

Therefore I feel 'choice' of submission to be a far more accurate term.

_____________________________

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If you can't be a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.


(in reply to mpnaleksandra2)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 4:21:52 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		If someone were to ask me what "gift of submission" means, I would say thats its a fluffy term to remind new submissives and slaves that they dont have to drop down and give a blowjob to the first guy that beats his chest and huffs and puffs about how he is a dominant.



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Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to mpnaleksandra2)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 5:20:34 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		fast reply-

What does the Dominant receive from my being submissive?    It's not my submission i give but by being submissive i facilitate His power.  He doesn't give me Dominance, He facilitates my need to serve.  We give of ourselves and the gift is the confirmation that who and what we are, is acceptable and joyous. 

i understand the problem of submissives using the "gift" idea as a way to get out of whatever they don't feel like doing but even then how could they use the term "gift"  if its something they would dole out as the mood strikes?  A gift is given and the recipient can do with as they like so in that example submission still isn't a gift.

Submission is the outward expression of an inner need.  i am submissive always, whether or not i am in service.  When i have the opportunity to express my inner need through service, it is i who receives the gift.

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No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 5:46:17 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
When I give a gift to someone, whether I made it, bought it, grew - whatever - I give this 'gift' without wanting anything in return.  I don't need thanks.  I don't need to even see the smile on their face.
 
That is why submission isn't a gift to me.  Because its s elfish act that wants something in return.  To be owned, to be loved, to be taken care of - whatever the reason there is still a reason.
 
Peace


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.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to mpnaleksandra2)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 5:46:25 AM   
shyinini


Posts: 550
Joined: 5/4/2007
Status: offline 		Aside from the responses you have received here, there are many BDSM websites owned by a Domand hissubm or a poly group taht would give you insightas towaht their view is.  Safe Haven, submissiveloving,  tammyjo's....so many sites.  All with a different angle to help you decide what you want to call it.
 
Sir's learning pet

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With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you
is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 5:58:06 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline 		There are many intangibles i give as gifts to others:  Reiki, Time, Listening, etc. But i don't consider my submission a gift because it is not something i can give - it is who i am and cannot be seperated from the whole package of myself. Ofcourse, i come to this from an eastern philosophy standpoint so that definitely influences my thoughts about it but if others see their's as a gift - that is certainly what works for them

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 6:07:10 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I know that many people do view their submission as a gift they give to their Dom. For them, this concept is valid and if it makes sense for themsolves then all the power to them! Form my personal feelings, I don't see my submitting as a gift but as a quality inherent to my personality in muc the same way a person's dominance is an inherent quality in themselves.
   It may be my own jaded view at this time but I believe that my submission has to be earned by a dominant in the same way I have to earn another's dominance. I see this akin to trust, as we do earn someone's trust the more we get to know each other and each other's qualities, etc. Though we do not doing a dominant any favor offering them our submission, at the same time they aren't doing us a favor either by taking upon themselves to being our dom. I believe it's the combination of many other qualities we have which draw a dom to us and vice versa.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 6:07:11 AM   
octavia


Posts: 377
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline 		Ok fine.
So if this is the whole point of "gift of submission", can people please just let us noobs have this one and not be so hoity toity and judgemental about us using the term? (not implying that you were MadRabbit)

And why does everyone seem to think that "gift" has to be about presents with ribbons.  I happen to have a gift of dance too, it was given to me by the universe.. i earned it through practice... whatever.  The bottom line is, I have the gift of dance, and if your lucky, DAMN lucky, I bestow that one on you tooooooo.
*see, I get the point you all are making, but still I hold that some of us are using that term, but not in a manipulative manner*
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

If someone were to ask me what "gift of submission" means, I would say thats its a fluffy term to remind new submissives and slaves that they dont have to drop down and give a blowjob to the first guy that beats his chest and huffs and puffs about how he is a dominant.




< Message edited by octavia -- 6/7/2007 6:08:27 AM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 6:13:48 AM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		For this slave, my submission to my Master is not a "gift".  It is a need that i have deep within me that my Master allows me to fulfill through His Ownership of me.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to octavia)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 6:22:29 AM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I have never seen my submission as a gift. To me it is a mutual relationship of give and take on both sides. If it works for some to call it a gift then so be it.

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Sir Pain's pain slut

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 6:35:57 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		I view submission much different then many,Is submission a gift"NO" it isn't,perhaps as a master accepting the petition of a slave seeking a collar is actually giving his gift..A slave that views submission as a gift perhaps should reevaluate her situation...As always just the views of this ol' master

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 6:41:46 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Aquatic you've GOT to stop this trend of using terms I dislike in reasonable and positive ways :)

Do I believe the good things in life are things we can consider gifts to ourselves?  Absolutely.

Do I believe we should be grateful for the things we have to share about ourselves, and grateful for the gifts we give to ourselves and others in our lives?  Again, absolutely.

Do I believe this is what people mean when they start to discuss "submission is a gift?"  99% of the time, no.

Yes, please, celebrate who you are, celebrate what you share of yourself and what is shared with you.  But that "gift" is the same as any wonderful blessing there is in yourself and the world.  Nothing different from what a vanilla or dominant or anyone else has in terms of preciousness.


I'm just too sentimental... *grins sheepishly* But I'd like to hear more about the gift of dominance!

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 6:44:57 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

When I give a gift to someone, whether I made it, bought it, grew - whatever - I give this 'gift' without wanting anything in return.  I don't need thanks.  I don't need to even see the smile on their face.
 
That is why submission isn't a gift to me.  Because its s elfish act that wants something in return.  To be owned, to be loved, to be taken care of - whatever the reason there is still a reason.
 
Peace


I agree pretty much with what is said here.



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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 6:51:18 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: octavia

Ok fine.
So if this is the whole point of "gift of submission", can people please just let us noobs have this one and not be so hoity toity and judgemental about us using the term? (not implying that you were MadRabbit)

And why does everyone seem to think that "gift" has to be about presents with ribbons.  I happen to have a gift of dance too, it was given to me by the universe.. i earned it through practice... whatever.  The bottom line is, I have the gift of dance, and if your lucky, DAMN lucky, I bestow that one on you tooooooo.
*see, I get the point you all are making, but still I hold that some of us are using that term, but not in a manipulative manner*
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

If someone were to ask me what "gift of submission" means, I would say thats its a fluffy term to remind new submissives and slaves that they dont have to drop down and give a blowjob to the first guy that beats his chest and huffs and puffs about how he is a dominant.




They have very valid points. Its a good analogy to explain the concept of consent and choosing who you serve, but someone who takes it too far will cause problems. The idea that its a gift and all us dominants and Masters need to do handstands, cartwheels and respond to the snap of a finger because we're so damn lucky to have it is a from of manipulation and control.

Hence, we need to do something less we risk losing this great gift we have been given. If someone were to walk threw my door and say "Hey...your lucky I am here, your lucky I am giving you this gift, and you better do one hell of a job making sure I am happy in this relationship lest you lose it", the person would get the boot right back out the door.

I value and appreciate the person and what they are doing, but in no way whatsoever will my standards, expactations, and orders change because I have this great gift.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to octavia)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 7:02:40 AM   
imthatacheyouhav


Posts: 1259
Joined: 4/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

I hope i didnt sound rude...it's just in my own life i view my submission as an agreement...a commitment...much like my marriage....its a relationship...i do feel like knowing Him (my Master) is a gift...and i'm glad i have it....


The problem with this logic is that is appears you view it as HIM giving you a gift, and it sounds as though your submission isn't "worthy" of being a called a gift.  If I am misreading it, I'm sorry.  It just came across that way to me.

There have been some valid points on both sides made.  I believe that it is a "gift" on both sides.  Not necessarily one that each gives the other, maybe a gift from the fates or whatever that each was lucky to find the other and thereby find happiness.

It would seem that the concept that one gives the "gift" of submission may have gotten started to sharpen the point that it isn't something that everyone in the room gets, but just that special one.  A way of protecting oneself from those who would think that a submissive should be submissive to everyone?  Just a thought, haven't researched it.  I, like so many others, feel that if the people involved in it being a "gift" are ok with it, what right does anyone else have to snicker and say it is a crock?

No...i do not view Masters domination over me as a gift...nor do i feel i am giving Him a gift by submitting....its an agreement we have together...a relationship we have both entered into...i am hoping i have alot to offer this relationship...i feel as though i do.I think if you want to wear tights and call it big time wresling thats fine...if it works for you great... i comment giving my own personal opinions....i didnt say anyone was wrong.... So perhaps you may have misread things just a little...thanks for your input.

< Message edited by imthatacheyouhav -- 6/7/2007 7:08:24 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 7:22:24 AM   
octavia


Posts: 377
Joined: 5/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: octavia

Ok fine.
So if this is the whole point of "gift of submission", can people please just let us noobs have this one and not be so hoity toity and judgemental about us using the term? (not implying that you were MadRabbit)

And why does everyone seem to think that "gift" has to be about presents with ribbons.  I happen to have a gift of dance too, it was given to me by the universe.. i earned it through practice... whatever.  The bottom line is, I have the gift of dance, and if your lucky, DAMN lucky, I bestow that one on you tooooooo.
*see, I get the point you all are making, but still I hold that some of us are using that term, but not in a manipulative manner*
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

If someone were to ask me what "gift of submission" means, I would say thats its a fluffy term to remind new submissives and slaves that they dont have to drop down and give a blowjob to the first guy that beats his chest and huffs and puffs about how he is a dominant.




They have very valid points. Its a good analogy to explain the concept of consent and choosing who you serve, but someone who takes it too far will cause problems. The idea that its a gift and all us dominants and Masters need to do handstands, cartwheels and respond to the snap of a finger because we're so damn lucky to have it is a from of manipulation and control.

Hence, we need to do something less we risk losing this great gift we have been given. If someone were to walk threw my door and say "Hey...your lucky I am here, your lucky I am giving you this gift, and you better do one hell of a job making sure I am happy in this relationship lest you lose it", the person would get the boot right back out the door.

I value and appreciate the person and what they are doing, but in no way whatsoever will my standards, expactations, and orders change because I have this great gift.


Agreed!  And if you did start doing handstands.  I would loose all respect and prolly fight you to the door.    My point is that some of us use that term in the same way we use the term to refer to our other  gifts or parts of who we are ie music, dance, talent.  And, to some degree it reminds us that we are making a choice.  So saying I'm gonna give you the gift of my submission is the same as saying im going to share this part of myself with you. I get how some subs can and would use it to manipulate and as I mentioned, a Dom who fell for that, wouldn't hold my interest anyway.   But some of us are just sappy and romantic and we call everything a fookin gift. 
I did have a guy thank me for sex once.. pissed me right off.  That not a gift.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 7:23:47 AM   
littlespicyone


Posts: 28
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		I've always thought of my submission as a gift ... as is something I'm good at. I've also spoken about submission as a gift because in taking a collar I GIVE myself and power over me to the Dom. All semantics aside, I've given something precious to abother person and so it is a gift. I don't do it for gratitude and I don't do it so I can have power over someone else ... if I wanted power I'd be a Dom, right? Mostly, though, I use the term because it's "Lifestyle speak" for just because you have a dick doesn't mean I'm going to submit to you. I also think it conveys my need for an intimate relationship and not just a no-strings, kinky sex thing.

Just because I have the need to submit and someone else has the need to dominate, doesn't make the giving of oneself and one's choices any less special or important, if that were the case then what would be the point of developing a D/s relationship? If all it consists of is two people's needs for dominance or submission being met, then we could all just pick someone up at the bar and dominate/submit to her/him.

I think it also emphasises that giving myself is something that I don't do lightly and it lets the Dom know that I do expect to be taken care of ... the way anyone would take care of a special gift that s/he'd been given. My mom gave me a ring ... she did it because she knew I would like it and wanted me to have it. It's a special gift and I take very good care of it. That's the kind of feeling I want to convey when I use the phrase in question.

Lastly, it emphasizes in my mind that I am His. You don't give someone a gift and then take it back just because you feel like it. By giving the gift of myself, I've trusted Him with everything that I am and have and that's important to me. It often seems to me that the men who use the term "gift of submission" tend to use it to really  mean "gift of yourself" which is how I see it. I can give submission to anyone, and do on a regular basis -- at work, at school, at home, at church -- but I don't give myself to just anyone. The men who don't really see it as a gift or as anything but a right granted to them by nature and the fact that they have a penis are the men I want to avoid ... and I do so by using the gift terminology.



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(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: "Gift of Submission" - 6/7/2007 7:30:31 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I think calling submission a "gift" is something that some subs do in order to feel good about themselves.
When doms approach me with this sort of nonsense "your precious gift of submission", it signals to me that they are not a dominant that I am interested in getting to know because it makes me understand that we hold different views about the lifestyle and submission.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to littlespicyone)
Profile   Post #: 60
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