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ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I think calling submission a "gift" is something that some subs do in order to feel good about themselves.
When doms approach me with this sort of nonsense "your precious gift of submission", it signals to me that they are not a dominant that I am interested in getting to know because it makes me understand that we hold different views about the lifestyle and submission.

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ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

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ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav

I hope i didnt sound rude...it's just in my own life i view my submission as an agreement...a commitment...much like my marriage....its a relationship...i do feel like knowing Him (my Master) is a gift...and i'm glad i have it....

The problem with this logic is that is appears you view it as HIM giving you a gift, and it sounds as though your submission isn't "worthy" of being a called a gift. If I am misreading it, I'm sorry. It just came across that way to me.

There have been some valid points on both sides made. I believe that it is a "gift" on both sides. Not necessarily one that each gives the other, maybe a gift from the fates or whatever that each was lucky to find the other and thereby find happiness.

It would seem that the concept that one gives the "gift" of submission may have gotten started to sharpen the point that it isn't something that everyone in the room gets, but just that special one. A way of protecting oneself from those who would think that a submissive should be submissive to everyone? Just a thought, haven't researched it. I, like so many others, feel that if the people involved in it being a "gift" are ok with it, what right does anyone else have to snicker and say it is a crock?

No...i do not view Masters domination over me as a gift...nor do i feel i am giving Him a gift by submitting....its an agreement we have together...a relationship we have both entered into...i am hoping i have alot to offer this relationship...i feel as though i do.I think if you want to wear tights and call it big time wresling thats fine...if it works for you great... i comment giving my own personal opinions....i didnt say anyone was wrong.... So perhaps you may have misread things just a little...thanks for your input.

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ORIGINAL: mpnaleksandra2

Good evening everyone,

I am certain that this topic has been discussed sometime in the past, but I just have to bring it up.
For some reason today I came across at least 2-3 profiles that refered to submission as a "gift". I disagree, and wanted to know what others think.

When someone refers to submission as a gift... it almost makes it sound as if they are doing their Dominant a favor by submitting to them. I always thought that submision was a need that some people experience, a need that they are driven to fulfill. You are not obligated to submit, nor are you doing anyone a favor by acting on your needs and desires.

Both dominants and submissive have needs and desires that they fulfill within a relationship. One is not doing the other one a favor and vice versa.

I just had to get this out.

Have a great day everyone!

aleksandra

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ORIGINAL: mpnaleksandra2

When someone refers to submission as a gift... it almost makes it sound as if they are doing their Dominant a favor by submitting to them. I always thought that submision was a need that some people experience, a need that they are driven to fulfill.

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Calling submission a "gift" obviously works for some and not for others.  The thing that gets me is why some people feel that because it differs from their personal views that those who believe it are arrogant, trying to maintain control, or just plain stupid?  There are a great many things that some people in this lifestyle believe, practice and enjoy that are not necessarily my "cup of tea".  It doesn't mean that one of us is right or wrong, it means they like things I don't.  In the most simplest example, I am heterosexual, some are homosexual or bisexual.  I don't believe that being homosexual or bisexual is wrong, just different from me.  As long as no one tells me that I must become homosexual or bisexual and I don't tell them to become heterosexual, life can go on as usual for me.  It is one thing to say, "this is how I view submission", quite another to imply that "your way" is the only way and any other way is wrong.  THAT would be arrogance.  We make the natural assumption that people in this lifestyle are more "tolerant" than the "vanilla" world, yet time and time again, it appears that many people in this lifestyle are far LESS tolerant.  It all comes back to the who is "true" and who is not based on their personal preferences.

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ORIGINAL: addicted2it
I do not understand why there is so much dissonance and discord between people here who should really come together as a unified force in the persuit of establishment of credibility and right to practice our beliefs within mainstream culture, or at least be allow to coexist, along with the mainstream.

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People in our community should try to refrain from being judgmental of others, because I think we are better than those outside who regularly point a finger and condemn us for our beliefs.

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ORIGINAL: stella40

Gift of submission? Hmmm. No, not really.

Oh yes (and I admit I have thought this way myself once) the gift of 'twue' submission, so precious, so valuable that you bestow your 'gift' on your Dominant in much the same way as the Queen bestows a knighthood on a citizen. Poppycock!

This is nothing more than arrogance from the side of the submissive, the big favour. No it isn't. There are no favours. Just two people, two roles, and an agreement to take on one or the other role.

Don't get me wrong, submission when it is genuine and real and comes from the heart is precious, it is valuable and to be appreciated, but so too is the time, attention, effort and feelings etc invested into any relationship by a Dominant. And nothing to me can be ever as valuable as the chance or opportunity of the right Dominant for you to show your submission.

IMO submission cannot be a gift. A gift, is something like a bunch of flowers, a box of chocolates, a watch, it is complete, whole,and finished.

Submission to me is a process. It is where you take all those promises you made to your Dominant and you work at fulfilling each and every one. It is opening up yourself to your Dominant, it is laying yourself bare and vulnerable, so that your Dominant can come into that vulnerable part of you and take control.

It is working on the relationship to make it possible, to make anything your Dominant wants possible, and it is showing your Dominant that not only do you accept their control and their authority but you are also worthy and deserving of their attention.

Calling yourself Mistress X or Master Y doesn't make you a Dominant, and neither does calling yourself a submissive or a slave make you a submissive. Words can be very beautiful and pretty, but they come cheap and nothing is as precious in a relationship as actions which back up those beautiful words.

Words can arouse interest and open a mind, but it's the actions behind the words which are the currency which is needed for the precious commodities of friendship, trust and confidence needed for a successful relationship.

Yes, submission can be truly precious and valuable - when it is sincere and honest and genuine. The gift of submission isn't a gift at all but an empty promise, and rather like a good wine, a malt whisky or even a tree, submission grows with time and becomes more precious and valuable the longer it lasts.

Submission to me is nothing more than a choice, in that I can choose who I can be submissive with.

Therefore I feel 'choice' of submission to be a far more accurate term.

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ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

When I give a gift to someone, whether I made it, bought it, grew - whatever - I give this 'gift' without wanting anything in return.  I don't need thanks.  I don't need to even see the smile on their face.

 

That is why submission isn't a gift to me.  Because its s elfish act that wants something in return.  To be owned, to be loved, to be taken care of - whatever the reason there is still a reason.

 

Peace

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Wrong.  Anyone who refers to it as a "gift" is violating the very clear rules laid down the the Big Book of Everything.

Why are people so poorly informed?

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ORIGINAL: windchymes

I don't see anything wrong with a Dominant feeling as though he has received a gift, or a submissive feeling as though she has given a gift if they both choose to feel that way.  Everyone is always free to perceive it any way they wish to.

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ORIGINAL: stella40

IMO submission cannot be a gift. A gift, is something like a bunch of flowers, a box of chocolates, a watch, it is complete, whole,and finished.

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ORIGINAL: octavia

Ok fine.
So if this is the whole point of "gift of submission", can people please just let us noobs have this one and not be so hoity toity and judgemental about us using the term? (not implying that you were MadRabbit)

And why does everyone seem to think that "gift" has to be about presents with ribbons. I happen to have a gift of dance too, it was given to me by the universe.. i earned it through practice... whatever. The bottom line is, I have the gift of dance, and if your lucky, DAMN lucky, I bestow that one on you tooooooo.
*see, I get the point you all are making, but still I hold that some of us are using that term, but not in a manipulative manner*

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ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

When I give a gift to someone, whether I made it, bought it, grew - whatever - I give this 'gift' without wanting anything in return.  I don't need thanks.  I don't need to even see the smile on their face.

 

That is why submission isn't a gift to me.  Because its s elfish act that wants something in return.  To be owned, to be loved, to be taken care of - whatever the reason there is still a reason.

 

Peace

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

i guess whatever word we use expects something in return. expectations sounds as though one seeks fulfillment of said expectations...

As with all word based threads, we could be here all summer and never agree.

I do expect fulfilment - I wouldn't enter a relationship that I didn't think would be fulfilling!