quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Just to play devil's advocate:

I wonder how much thought she put into that question before answering it. Perhaps it was flippant in response to the OP since she does consider the other to be spoiled. That may well have shown.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

I've said pretty much the same statement and there was no aggression or threat involved.  It is stating facts.  I am Master's slave and I am His one true love (His words).  Master cherishes me and He wants me to be happy.  If/when I am less than happy, it concerns Him and we talk about it and work it out.  How could that be aggressive or threatening? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

It might be just a simple state of fact- the master prefers her happy (perhaps even spoiled) and enjoy giving things to her.  It can actually take a fair bit of bravery to admit that KNOWING how a lot of people might perceive that to be a sign that she's the one in control.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Just to play devil's advocate:

I wonder how much thought she put into that question before answering it. Perhaps it was flippant in response to the OP since she does consider the other to be spoiled. That may well have shown.

I'd rather take someone at their word rather than try to twist it around the context or way she said it.  To me those words, whether said in jest or in seriousness reveal something.... to me not terribly humble or centered in slavery.  I have no problems giving people allowances for off days, but thats just my read of the words.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Again, to play devil's advocate: Who says slavery has to be humble?

quote:


If her master likes her to be aware of her worth, then that is what works for them. If he likes her to be aware of the fact that he takes pleasure in her happiness, then that is what makes them happy. There is no evidence that he gives her anything they can't afford and if he can afford it, why not give her something that makes her happy if that is what he wants?

quote:



All that we know is that he can afford some nice jewelry and likes his slave to be happy. I'm having a hard time seeing the d/s crime here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

All that we know is that he can afford some nice jewelry and likes his slave to be happy. I'm having a hard time seeing the d/s crime here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Just to play devil's advocate:

I wonder how much thought she put into that question before answering it. Perhaps it was flippant in response to the OP since she does consider the other to be spoiled. That may well have shown.

I'd rather take someone at their word rather than try to twist it around the context or way she said it.  To me those words, whether said in jest or in seriousness reveal something.... to me not terribly humble or centered in slavery
Well, it's certainly hard to judge whether or not someone else is "humble" or "centered" in slavery.  That's kind of like that slippery slope of deciding who's "real" or "true."  To me, it's just not a determination that can be made from a few sentences in one post. 

To me the specific words that were said were agressive and threatening because if someone says, if I'm not happy he's not happy that sounds more like a nagging wife that will make her husbands life hell for doing something wrong than anything resembling slavery.  Again just my opinion on that specific quote the OP provided.
Yeah, it's pretty amazing how the same statement can come off meaning such different things to different people.  To say that Master isn't happy if I'm not happy is just how it is and certainly not "nagging."  It's His choice to notice and be concerned about His property if she isn't her usual happy, content self with Him.  I don't nag or make His life bad in any way.  Again, deciding what "resembles slavery" is not something I'm prepared to decide for others or permit them to dictate for me. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

It might be just a simple state of fact- the master prefers her happy (perhaps even spoiled) and enjoy giving things to her.  It can actually take a fair bit of bravery to admit that KNOWING how a lot of people might perceive that to be a sign that she's the one in control.
I'm in total agreement here, LA.  I wouldn't say I'm spoiled but Master has no desire to see me anything less than happy and content in my life with Him.  He does enjoy giving me things.  I agree it took some heart for her to talk about this because, as you said, a lot of people will construe that to mean that she is ordering him around, nagging him, or in control.

I don't see anything brave about what she said.  To me it sounds more bitchy than brave.
Once again, it's interesting how very differently the same statements can be interpreted.......luci

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
If her master likes her to be aware of her worth, then that is what works for them. If he likes her to be aware of the fact that he takes pleasure in her happiness, then that is what makes them happy
Exactly.  And He IS Master and He IS the boss so if it pleases Him, how can it be wrong?
And frankly, Valyraen isn't happy when I'm not happy. Because he loves me and wants me to be happy
Exactly the same in our relationship. 
I'm having a hard time seeing the d/s crime here.
Aquatic,
The crime is that she is not supposed to be allowed to be happy.  If she isn't suffering in silence, she's not "really" a slave, right?  And a Master can't possibly be "domly" enough if he is willing to admit he desires his slave's happiness.  Maybe that's true in other's relationships and that's cool, it really is.  It's simply not the case in ours.....luci

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
Yeah, it's pretty amazing how the same statement can come off meaning such different things to different people.  To say that Master isn't happy if I'm not happy is just how it is and certainly not "nagging."  It's His choice to notice and be concerned about His property if she isn't her usual happy, content self with Him.  I don't nag or make His life bad in any way.  Again, deciding what "resembles slavery" is not something I'm prepared to decide for others or permit them to dictate for me. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

All that we know is that he can afford some nice jewelry and likes his slave to be happy. I'm having a hard time seeing the d/s crime here.

We also know that if she isn't happy then he will not be happy.

C~

Most people who love someone aren't happy when they aren't.

I am not happy when Valyraen is unhappy. He is not happy when I am not. That by itself does not signal the control in the relationship.

Edited to Add: Most people that I know

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs
Except that you are deciding based off of your experiences, your definitions, your filters whether it resembles slavery or not
But see, that's just it.  I'm not saying that anyone's situation doesn't "resemble slavery."  If they say they are a slave and their Master says they are a slave then they are a slave in that relationship, period.  Sure, we all use our own experiences, definitions and filters to decide what's right for us but I don't use them to determine that someone else isn't what they say they are.
It is kind of a yes/no situation and I get the impression that we are seeing the quote and context differently
I think you're absolutely right there, Wildfleurs
So really, the only difference between you and I is that we disagree on whether the quote reflects/resembles slavery
Well, as I said above, I think anyone who says they are a slave and is in such a relationship is a slave.  Therefore, anything they do or don't do "reflects/resembles slavery" as THEY live it.  So, I suppose that's where we are differing. 
I don't ever dictate to people how they should be.  I don't know how many more ways to say that this is all based on my personal view of slavery and I'm not foisting my opinion on anyone or even suggesting that she needs to change (or that anyone needs to change).  But it is my opinion.
And you're certainly entitled to it and I don't mean to come off as questioning your right to express it.  I guess it just struck a nerve to read that she could be considered less than "slavelike" simply because her master desires her happiness and she recognizes this.  As this is my situation as well, I guess it hit home a bit more than it should have.  I didn't mean to read more into what you said than you meant.  Sorry if I did and thanks for the civil debate.........luci

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
"But see, that's just it.  I'm not saying that anyone's situation doesn't "resemble slavery."  If they say they are a slave and their Master says they are a slave then they are a slave in that relationship, period.  Sure, we all use our own experiences, definitions and filters to decide what's right for us but I don't use them to determine that someone else isn't what they say they are."

All sophistry aside...the old quote is " if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck"

NOT: "If master says I am a duck. and I say I am a duck QED I'm a duck."

In my mind I am extremely tall and handsome and with hardly any grey hair, and I could probably get my slave to agree with me. But we would both be fooling ourselves.

(in reply to slaveluci)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evlgryn
All sophistry aside...the old quote is " if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck"
NOT: "If master says I am a duck. and I say I am a duck QED I'm a duck."
In my mind I am extremely tall and handsome and with hardly any grey hair, and I could probably get my slave to agree with me. But we would both be fooling ourselves.
......On your last point there, yes you would be fooling yourself to say you are tall if you are short and to say you have dark hair if it is indeed grey.  But those terms (tall, short, dark, grey) as well as the word "duck" all have very specific definitions.  "Slave" does not.  I see your point and I would agree IF everyone shared the same definition of what a "slave" is.  Obviously, they do not.  So, I can look at a dog and tell you it's not a duck and I can look at you - being short of stature - and say you aren't tall.  (Though even that can be a subjective judgement.  Just exactly at what height does "short" end and "tall" begin?  It's all in one's judgement with no real answer).  But.....I can't look at another's relationship and say it's not an M/s one because they don't do things like I would.  None of us can. 
 
Being a slave doesn't revolve around how one looks to the physical eye but it involves, instead, many aspects that can't be seen.  It's a mental thing.  Thus, how can I ever look at another who says he/she is a slave and tell them that they are not.  How can I possibly know?  Just because their behavior doesn't mirror mine?  Since when is a slave supposed to exhibit behavior for the benefit of other's rather than his/her Master's?  I just don't believe it is ever appropriate to tell another sub/slave that they aren't or that their behavior doesn't fit my definition of "slavelike," etc.  Who am I to question the person's Dom/Master?
 
Again, I see your point but until there is one definitive, agreed upon, comprehensive, all-inclusive definition of just exactly what a "slave" is, (like there is for a "duck") I'm going to have to refrain from including some and excluding others.........slave luci

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs


Thats a whole lotta read into what I said.

C~

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

 until there is one definitive, agreed upon, comprehensive, all-inclusive definition of just exactly what a "slave" is, (like there is for a "duck") I'm going to have to refrain from including some and excluding others.........slave luci

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

 until there is one definitive, agreed upon, comprehensive, all-inclusive definition of just exactly what a "slave" is, (like there is for a "duck") I'm going to have to refrain from including some and excluding others.........slave luci

i wouldn't hold my breath waiting lol... i agree with you luci - well said :-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs
Except that you are deciding based off of your experiences, your definitions, your filters whether it resembles slavery or not
But see, that's just it.  I'm not saying that anyone's situation doesn't "resemble slavery."  If they say they are a slave and their Master says they are a slave then they are a slave in that relationship, period.  Sure, we all use our own experiences, definitions and filters to decide what's right for us but I don't use them to determine that someone else isn't what they say they are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I'm not even playing DA (something I really dislike in general btw) I'm just saying there's not much at all we can cleanly decipher from what the OP chooses to share about what the other slave says/how it's said/how it's meant.  There's way too much selection bias to wade through.

Again, from my perception it could easily be a statement of fact.  Honestly, how many masters would say "I'm happy when my slave isn't happy" or "I prefer my slave to be unhappy"? 

quote:



She may have even meant the line completely as a joke- but because our OP here was in a confused jealous whole new world state of mind, may completely have missed the bar there.  How many slaves have teased occasionally that they aren't a "twue slave" because of something, knowing it was completely just a funny one liner joke that wasn't really true at all?

quote:


Which is basically my point- there's so many ways this could have been taken, and could have been meant, we really can't say much.  It could have been meant as a "Yeah I love my life and if it changed, then no one would be happy" sort of serious deal.

quote:


But is that really so wrong for a slave to know that?  Should a slave agree to be in a situation with X set of expectations, and then later be forced to live under Y expectations?  That's an ongoing debate and the line is in a new place for everyone.  Is it ok for a master to decide he wants to impregnant his slave even though he told her in the beginning they would never have children?  Is it ok to tell her to go to school?

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I'm not reading anything into what you said actually. I'm just guessing that the slave and master operate on a principle that I've found to be true over and over in every healthy relationship that I've encountered: If you love someone, you want them to be happy. If they are unhappy, you aren't.

Being aware of the fact that someone loves you, wants you to be happy, and is unhappy when you are unhappy does not make you in control of the relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I'm not reading anything into what you said actually. I'm just guessing that the slave and master operate on a principle that I've found to be true over and over in every healthy relationship that I've encountered: If you love someone, you want them to be happy. If they are unhappy, you aren't.

Being aware of the fact that someone loves you, wants you to be happy, and is unhappy when you are unhappy does not make you in control of the relationship.

Okay, when you started talking about control and love in response to quoted material from me, I assumed you were responding to things I said.  If thats not the case, then I was wrong!

C~