How many Doms were subs first? (Full Version)

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jthaddeus -> How many Doms were subs first? (6/13/2007 3:43:52 PM)

When I was in basic training, I was there with a kid who had a degree. He'd gone to millitary boarding schools since he was in elementary school and the only thing he wanted to do in his life was be an Army Officer. He was in basic, and then in the Ranger Indoc Program because he wasn't going to be an officer untill he'd been a grunt and could know with 100% certainty that he was 100% aware of both sides of the equation.

When I was talking to someone a while back about my (incredible lack of) experience, it came out that the only time I've ever done anything even remotely bdsm related was when I was with a friend who really needed it. I ended up tying them up and basicly taking complete control, which is VERY unlike me, excepting that they really seemed to need it, and in my mind the only way to serve them as it were was to provide this, and do it well. And it was kinda enjoyable.

They suggested that given that I have a real fear of hurting people, that perhaps I needed to experience being a slave, and to see what it was like, and that insodoing I would find out that that wasn't really what I was after at all, but that the experience might liberate me to move on.

I'm not sure about it, nor is it really relevent, as it's all just postulation about the future, and for now, I know I want to be owned and not to control the situation, but it got me thinking, and I'd like to know, just for acadaemia's sake, if that type of route was common.

Do many doms spend time as a sub before becoming a dom?

Thanks. :)

-- j.



Valyraen -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/13/2007 7:25:36 PM)

I can't speak with any sort of authority for any other doms... but the first serious relationship I was in (a completely 'nilla relationship, by the way), I was very much the submissive half. My then-girlfriend wasn't lifestyle at all (that would require her to enjoy sex, first), but she was a bossy, manipulative bitch who once tri- well, I'll spare the stories. Long story short... yeah, I've been at the opposite end of the power spectrum, and that was enough to convince me that end wasn't for me. I've been an alpha-male, 95% dominant ever since then.



MadRabbit -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/13/2007 7:29:00 PM)

Not yet, but one day, I look forward to hopefully having the oppurtunity to be a domestic servant in accordance with Leather ways to someone I greatly respect for the experience



MstrssPassion -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/13/2007 8:19:38 PM)

I personally don't think a dom can ever be a sub

however I think a dom could bottom

as to whether they actually benefit from going through this experience... everyone is different & there is no right answer or wrong answer



BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/13/2007 8:27:35 PM)

About 5 minutes at the age of 8 when my sister and cousins tied me up....bounty



michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/13/2007 8:28:44 PM)

i started out as Dom, just wasn't comfortable disciplining anyone or giving orders.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/13/2007 8:43:21 PM)

To answer the thread title:  Some

To answer the OP:  Do what works best for you.  Most sadists have trouble with their desires when they start out.  You don't have to be sub or dom to learn how to be a competent and compassionate sadist (remember dom does not equal sadist and sub does not equal masochist).  Give yourself time to get to know people and explore.



MzMia -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/13/2007 9:05:47 PM)

I am a bit submissive at work, if not I would not have a job.
I used to also be submissive to my parents.
So there are situations in life that I have to downplay my Dominance,
and be a submissive.
But, never in this lifestyle! [;)]



Faramir -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/13/2007 9:13:44 PM)

I think there are variations within D/s, but for some of us, this is a very clear intimacy orientation.  I'm not going to say categorically, that I could never ever, under any circumstances, never love a man in intimacy.  I can tell you the idea is utterly against my nature, and so I have always identified as straight.  Similarly, my self-identification is clear: I have always been turned on and feel drawn romantically to dominating women.

I dunno if it is wiring, environment, combo or what, but I know how I feel.



Sinergy -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/13/2007 9:23:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

About 5 minutes at the age of 8 when my sister and cousins tied me up....bounty


My friends and I used to tie each other up in 4th grade.

I always escaped, they almost never did.

Not sure what it means, but there ya go.

Sinergy



TigerNINTails -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/14/2007 1:14:46 AM)

In order to answer this form and not everyone, I'd have to say that there are times when everyone takes a more submissive, or bottom role, but as for myself, growing up in an environment that I did, I was most definitely more of a submissive personality starting out.

However, as I grew up into my teens (probably about the time I started Topping my girlfriend at the age of 12) was when I discovered that tying up women and sexually tormenting them, or tickling them or otherwise controlling them in some fashion was what I wanted over all.

So I guess, in my head, initially, I started out "submissive", but now have hardly any submissive thread whatsoever. I still bottom on occasion, but for me, that's a learning, humbling and balancing situation.

I find that to bottom puts me in line with the same thought processes that go through the heads of submissives while I'm working them, so I understand what effect something is going to have on a more intuitive level.

While I have this bent in me (to bottom), when I do it, I tend to take upon a "servant" or "slave" role, and I don't really submit... It's more of a "If I'm going to serve someone, I'm going to treat it like "duty", but they can't have my submission. It's a forced need I have, I guess.

In any case, yes. I started out submissive, and bouncing between submissive and dominant for a while in my teens, but now am almost an exclusive top/switch with dominant tendencies, and really no submissive tendencies. I hope that makes sense.

In any case, there ya go.

Peace.

Tora Kuo



Focus50 -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/14/2007 4:05:05 AM)

Always was a "control freak"; always will be!  Never been a slave, a sub or a bottom - never wanta be! 
 
I'm a Dom (and a male and an Aussie) and for the life of me I can't see the logic of ever trying anything else in order to justify or validate what I really am and always was.
 
Focus.



MadRabbit -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/14/2007 4:08:05 AM)

(Fast Reply to no one in particular)

I always enjoy reading threads like this, because its interesting to see how people view and understand dominance and submission.

People who say "Doms cant submit or its all orientation or hard wiring" seem to view the concepts of dominance and submission in the scope of purely kinky sexuality and intimacy.

If you extend the scope though and view domiance and submission in the context of authority and how it applies to our everyday lives, then everyone submits and dominates in different ways based on neccesity. I make my analogies regarding M/S and D/S relationships in comparsion to parent/child and boss/subordinate on a regular basis to emphasis this.

I beleive the potential and ability to dominate or submit exists in everyone in varying degrees and someone's ability to submit or dominate is based on the context of the situation. I think someone who says "A Dom can never be a sub" or "A Dom that submits is not a real Dom" or "Switches are rare" have a lack of introspection, lack of scope regarding how the concepts of dominance and submission apply, or are clinging very tightly to the comfort of black and white identities.



NoirUMC -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/14/2007 4:44:14 AM)

To be quite honest, I started out as a sadistic onlooker experiencing denial. :)

P.S.

Now that I think about it, the practical difference between some of the dead-end jobs I've had and consensual slavery is slim. I'm hoping the average slave enjoys his or her experiences in M/s somewhat more than I have enjoyed mine in the working world. >.>



MadRabbit -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/14/2007 5:13:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NoirUMC

Now that I think about it, the practical difference between some of the dead-end jobs I've had and consensual slavery is slim. I'm hoping the average slave enjoys his or her experiences in M/s somewhat more than I have enjoyed mine in the working world. >.>


I hope so too =)



Archer -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/14/2007 6:47:30 AM)

The original thoughts behind someone learning from the bottom up is pretty simple, knowing what really motivates a submissive is not always n easy intuitive thing. Being someone who is in the situation for awhile tends to give insight into the workings of the mind of those who spend their lives that way. Understanding the workings of the submissive mind wha motivates them to submit, what motivates them to serve, what things go through their minds and hw they can better understand their own selves, that's not something that is an easy study even with a short term of service many if not most non submissives "don't get it".

So if many if not most "don't get it" even after such a term of service where is the value? Well the value is that the fact that someone spent a short term of service will give some insight into the workings of the mind under those circumstances, and it may make the difference between being able to inspire your future submissives/ slaves even if you don't fully "get it" you might get enough of it to help them understand themselves better.

One of the biggest jobs for  Master or Dominant is helping their counterpart to understand themselves. The better one is at helping them understand themselves, the better the chances of them becomming well adusted.

I spent a short term of service under a Mistress slepping bags, cleaning toys, setting up and breaking down toys and equipment. I'd say I learned alot from her, and granted there was alot of it that I could have learned without being "in service".
Only a small part of the things I learned had to do with the understanding of the submissive mind.

My own mind is rambling a bit this morning, not as organized as I would like.

Spending a some time "In Service" is certainly not going to ensure you are a better Dominant
nor is not spending a time "In Service" oing to make you a bad Dominant.
But the odds that during a term of service you will learn something valuable both about yourself and the mind of a person "in service" are very good.

BTW edit This is not to say that even with the time I did spend "In Service" that I "get it" I still don't think I "get it" but I get a little bit of it better than I would have without the experience. I got a little bit of insight but certainly not a full understanding.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/14/2007 7:52:06 AM)

Mad- the key difference in "real world" relationships versus "intimate personal" relationship is that the relationship is not necessarily BASED ON an authority transfer.  As well, someone being "a dominant" to me is just like calling someone a "heterosexual."

Now, a person is a heterosexual no matter who they are talking with or having whatever relationship at the time, however, their being a heterosexual ONLY matters very much when it comes to their personal intimate relationships.

Same with dominance/vanilla/submission- they might be that orientation no matter what, but it doesn't matter much unless it's within your own personal relationship.

I think this causes problems because then everyone starts to divide up vanilla life from kink life, or thinks that they aren't really a sub because they have a dominant personality, or that a dom isn't a good dom because he's not the boss at work. 

Dominance and submission have specific, full world applications.  How WE use it is a jargonistic term to denote a personal relationship orientation and shouldn't be confused with personality/general relationship dynamics.

Using them as ANALOGIES is acceptable to make specific comparisons, but just because a person is submissive to a parent does NOT mean that they are "both sub and dom to a certain extent" when it comes to their relationship orientation.  Just because a person is a lawyer and needs to dominate a courtroom does NOT mean that they are "both sub and dom to a certain extent" when it comes to their relationship orientation.



MadRabbit -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/14/2007 10:58:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Mad- the key difference in "real world" relationships versus "intimate personal" relationship is that the relationship is not necessarily BASED ON an authority transfer.  As well, someone being "a dominant" to me is just like calling someone a "heterosexual."

Now, a person is a heterosexual no matter who they are talking with or having whatever relationship at the time, however, their being a heterosexual ONLY matters very much when it comes to their personal intimate relationships.

Same with dominance/vanilla/submission- they might be that orientation no matter what, but it doesn't matter much unless it's within your own personal relationship.

I think this causes problems because then everyone starts to divide up vanilla life from kink life, or thinks that they aren't really a sub because they have a dominant personality, or that a dom isn't a good dom because he's not the boss at work. 

Dominance and submission have specific, full world applications.  How WE use it is a jargonistic term to denote a personal relationship orientation and shouldn't be confused with personality/general relationship dynamics.

Using them as ANALOGIES is acceptable to make specific comparisons, but just because a person is submissive to a parent does NOT mean that they are "both sub and dom to a certain extent" when it comes to their relationship orientation.  Just because a person is a lawyer and needs to dominate a courtroom does NOT mean that they are "both sub and dom to a certain extent" when it comes to their relationship orientation.


Well...my point wasnt to say just because someone is a parent, they have a desire to be a dominant in a relationship.

My point was more that in a worldly scope, everyone has the capacity to dominate or submit, but its based on context

I could vary much be a domestic servant. I cant say that I would particularly enjoy it, but I have learned to deal with authority because I have to survive in the modern world.

Now...if we change the context, can I submit in a sexual sense to a woman? I dont know if I could.

I'm argueing that things arent so simple as a "Dom can't submit" or a "Sub cant dominate" or a "Dominant isnt really a dominant if hes not a boss at work." or "I cant be a slave because of my personality traits". Whether someone can submit or not or is capable of submitting or not in a situation is based on context and the individual.

My own desire to be in service to someone has little to do with my innate desires for my intimate relationships, but a desire to have an experience that builds character and hopefully more insights and thoughts into what I really want.

Either way...I doubt my innate desire and orientation will have little effect on my ability to serve and follow orders and submit...it will just determine how much I like it and how much I perhaps...understand and take from it.











LuckyAlbatross -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/14/2007 11:09:36 AM)

I agree with your points, but I think when people say "I can't submit" they mean within the context of a personal intimate relationship.

Not all of course, your points are certainly valid in regards to them.



MadRabbit -> RE: How many Doms were subs first? (6/14/2007 11:21:08 AM)

I agree completely which is why I made the distinction in my first post. I was just trying to add alternate perspective.



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