I've noticed that some of the "submissives" who post here very accurately fit the following two descriptions.  And no doubt they will pop up and think we're talking about them and then offer a wordy and whiny defense.  blech.  I'd rather chew glass than deal with any of them.

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* Submissives that have just a slight hint of arrogance or rudeness toward dominant women, just subtle enough to be noticed but not worth calling them out on it.  If a femdom were to point out that a guy was expressing a snarky attitude just to make it a point, she'd look like she's pulling the "femdom card."  However, she knows he's doing it and he does.  These subs are for the most part being respectful, but take an opportunity when they can to be a subtle asshole to show their "non wormliness."   The submissive's defense would be that "you're not my Mistress so I don't need to submit to you," but he's clearly copping an attitude he wouldn't with a lady he worked with, a friend of his sister's or a woman working in a lingerie store. In fact, it's clear he's looking for oppportunties where he can show a little "tude" to make others think he's "not one of those asskissers.:

* Submissives that wave the flag for "submissive rights" in the bedroom and in kink, cloaking their "me first" attitude by making it sound like "compatibility of kinks" or "everyone's needs must be met."  They keep pushing this envelope to the point that it's going to be perfectly ok, in their heads, to dish out their kink wish list.   Any femdom with her head screwed on straight will acknowledge that a relationship is based on mutual needs; however, the fact that these subs keep bringing up this "50/50 relationship -- well, ok, femdom is in control so it's 51/49" (not literally, of course) think they are masking their "I need MY KINKS MET FIRST or I am out of here" attitude but they aren't.  

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* The sheer number of "lowly worm" subs out there;  submissive's lib has other male subs now taking a much cooler, standoffish approach in an attempt to distance themselves from the masses.

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I've noticed a trend over the last few years where submissive men seem to be trying a "counter approach" to attract femdoms, and in most cases it's pretty decent, but it's starting to go to the extreme for some, making it a turn off. I think this "counter approach" submissive men are taking is in response to:

* The sheer number of "lowly worm" subs out there;  submissive's lib has other male subs now taking a much cooler, standoffish approach in an attempt to distance themselves from the masses. As a result many are coming across like "mini assholes" or send a 'sure I will submit to you, but you better not forget about MY needs", fighting for that last 1% if a relationship were to be tilted just a mere 51%/49% in a woman's favor.

* The self preservation in reaction to "money dommes" and femdom scammers.  The new age sub now has pushed back hard in the other direction, scoffing at the idea that he may be expected to show any kind of generosity, especially if it costs money.  Femdoms of today, strike the word "Generous" from your vocabulary, no matter HOW you use it!

I think the trend in general was going in the right direction, with many subs moving away from the approach of worshipping anything with a female name, positioning themselves as subservient in initial contacts, saying "I will do anything for you" and "I have no limits" and thinking that was sexy, being totally spineless and having no opinion, etc.

But some submissives seem to have taken it a little too far in their approach to seem somewhat cool, non-wormly, or perhaps it's even the kinky version of the vanilla "nice guy" trying too hard to "be an asshole" because he thinks it will make him more lucky with women, and throwing off some "uber-independence/I don't need yer stinkin femdoms" approach (as a counter to the old "I show total respect and deference to any femdoms in any capacity, my opinion does not matter ladies but here it is for you").  Some of the trends I'm talking about are:

* Submissives that have just a slight hint of arrogance or rudeness toward dominant women, just subtle enough to be noticed but not worth calling them out on it.  If a femdom were to point out that a guy was expressing a snarky attitude just to make it a point, she'd look like she's pulling the "femdom card."  However, she knows he's doing it and he does.  These subs are for the most part being respectful, but take an opportunity when they can to be a subtle asshole to show their "non wormliness."   The submissive's defense would be that "you're not my Mistress so I don't need to submit to you," but he's clearly copping an attitude he wouldn't with a lady he worked with, a friend of his sister's or a woman working in a lingerie store. In fact, it's clear he's looking for oppportunties where he can show a little "tude" to make others think he's "not one of those asskissers.:

Thank you so much, this is why I rarely post here anymore, I can't take the snakes and snarkiness.
I wonder what type of Dominant woman would deal with them.
I am often astonished they are rarely "called" on it, that is what makes it interesting.

* Submissives that wave the flag for "submissive rights" in the bedroom and in kink, cloaking their "me first" attitude by making it sound like "compatibility of kinks" or "everyone's needs must be met."  They keep pushing this envelope to the point that it's going to be perfectly ok, in their heads, to dish out their kink wish list.   Any femdom with her head screwed on straight will acknowledge that a relationship is based on mutual needs; however, the fact that these subs keep bringing up this "50/50 relationship -- well, ok, femdom is in control so it's 51/49" (not literally, of course) think they are masking their "I need MY KINKS MET FIRST or I am out of here" attitude but they aren't. 

It takes all kinds, they are a different "kind".

* Submissives that proudly state they will slam the door on any femdom that expects gifts. Look, guys, we get it - you aren't going to be scammed or send cash to strangers (we don't want you to do that either).  But if you think it's cool and sexy to laugh at a lady that expects to be courted or for you to wrench your wallet out of your pocket to send flowers or a gift when you are courting, you are going to remain single a long time.  Just because SOME of your gender have been stupid and horny enough to fall for extremely obvious scams where women ask for cash to prove sincerity does not give you a "pass" in the age-old tradition of vying for a woman's favor by showing generosity of spirit and, yes, in sometimes gifting.    It's crazy that these guys have no problem with the concept of "worship and adoration" when it comes to their fantasies (ie, asslicking for hours) but if it's something that makes a woman feel cherished, like sending flowers or buying an appropriate gift, they are ready to jump on the "submissive lib" bandwagon.  This one, sadly, I think is going to result in many submissives never getting to first base with a woman, because he looks like a cheapskate or a bitter guy who fell for a bad scam once and now is blaming all women.

I think it's fantastic that so many submissives are moving away from the "lowly worm" approach in their communication style with femdoms. However, I think some are blazing a trail in the WRONG direction, thinking that if they swing the pendulum all the way in the other direction that somehow femdoms are going to find that sexy and appealing.  I don't think we do.  I think there's a better balance than that.

Akasha

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ORIGINAL: KaramelGoddess

I've noticed that some of the "submissives" who post here very accurately fit the following two descriptions.  And no doubt they will pop up and think we're talking about them and then offer a wordy and whiny defense.  blech.  I'd rather chew glass than deal with any of them.
~Kara

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* Submissives that have just a slight hint of arrogance or rudeness toward dominant women, just subtle enough to be noticed but not worth calling them out on it.  If a femdom were to point out that a guy was expressing a snarky attitude just to make it a point, she'd look like she's pulling the "femdom card."  However, she knows he's doing it and he does.  These subs are for the most part being respectful, but take an opportunity when they can to be a subtle asshole to show their "non wormliness."   The submissive's defense would be that "you're not my Mistress so I don't need to submit to you," but he's clearly copping an attitude he wouldn't with a lady he worked with, a friend of his sister's or a woman working in a lingerie store. In fact, it's clear he's looking for oppportunties where he can show a little "tude" to make others think he's "not one of those asskissers.:

* Submissives that wave the flag for "submissive rights" in the bedroom and in kink, cloaking their "me first" attitude by making it sound like "compatibility of kinks" or "everyone's needs must be met."  They keep pushing this envelope to the point that it's going to be perfectly ok, in their heads, to dish out their kink wish list.   Any femdom with her head screwed on straight will acknowledge that a relationship is based on mutual needs; however, the fact that these subs keep bringing up this "50/50 relationship -- well, ok, femdom is in control so it's 51/49" (not literally, of course) think they are masking their "I need MY KINKS MET FIRST or I am out of here" attitude but they aren't.  

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ORIGINAL: KaramelGoddess

I've noticed that some of the "submissives" who post here very accurately fit the following two descriptions.  And no doubt they will pop up and think we're talking about them and then offer a wordy and whiny defense.  blech.  I'd rather chew glass than deal with any of them.
~Kara

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ORIGINAL: KaramelGoddess

I've noticed that some of the "submissives" who post here very accurately fit the following two descriptions. And no doubt they will pop up and think we're talking about them and then offer a wordy and whiny defense. blech. I'd rather chew glass than deal with any of them.
~Kara

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I think most of the fog between men and women can be blown away after two (2) or three (3) F2F meetings. The shennanigans, exagerations, and posturing lie most squarely in the online experience.

When people meet F2F, then can get right to the heart of the matter: do they like each other and might they share some sort of future.

In a F2F setting a good submissive guy will follow the cues of a Domme and not lead with either exageratons, posturing, or preemption. Its also his time to put forth his strong qualities as a person, the same as any guy in the dating scene would. Also he can explore whether the Domme is for him or not.

Just because a sub guy doesn't want or doesn't elect to cater to all a Dom's whims or demands doesn't mean he's not submissive. No, it mean's he's self aware, which is a vital component of effective D/S.

Unlike Amayos, I believe limits are actually the cornerstone of D/S. Leading with them eliminates a lot of back end confusion and frames the D/S issues early in the game.