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RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 10:58:06 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyRed
You either have ownership or you do not, you certainly do not need others to validate you, do you?

It is not to others that I am validating my relationship, it is to myself. It is like pinching yourself when you are having an amazing experience to make sure it is real. It is also pinching my slave to make sure s/he knows it is real. The people who I enslave want to feel that way...they want to be owned in a tangible way, and not one that is theoretic or subjective (or dare I say romantic).

I couldn't care less what others think, but I like having solid evidence to the nature of my own relationships.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to SexyRed)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 10:59:59 AM

Posts: 1917
Joined: 5/6/2007
Status: offline

I think I see what you mean.

When I used to play, I was with submissives...we'd negotiate and basically I would be doing only the things agreed to.

Then, when I had a slave...the first six months were like that...then we decided to continue, he actually did become my slave, in the fact that I did things with him and to him that he didn't necessarily like. Some things he did end up liking....lol I really pushed his limits, broke down some other limits, we also worked on some of his phobias. He gave himself to me 100%.......it was very stimulating....from then on I've only wanted to own.

He was mine, his body belonged to me to do with as I wished

_____________________________

...Look into my eyes and I'll own you....

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:00:00 AM

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Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyRed
You either have ownership or you do not, you certainly do not need others to validate you, do you?

It is not to others that I am validating my relationship, it is to myself. It is like pinching yourself when you are having an amazing experience to make sure it is real. It is also pinching my slave to make sure s/he knows it is real. The people who I enslave want to feel that way...they want to be owned in a tangible way, and not one that is theoretic or subjective (or dare I say romantic).

I couldn't care less what others think, but I like having solid evidence to the nature of my own relationships.

Taggard

While I find it hard to comprehend this, I do applaud your self awareness.

_____________________________

A trucker will slow down for a blonde, stop for a brunette, but back up 500 yards for a redhead!

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:01:54 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I have to agree. Valyraen and I feel that if you have to prove you own someone, you really don't.

That is nonsensical. How can testing something invalidate it's truth value? I can certainly see the point that you don't need to test something for it to exist, but testing for existence can not validate existence. It can either provide evidence for existence or not.

It seems to me that you are basing your relationship on a kind of faith that is destroyed when the scientific method is applied to it.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:04:06 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I have to agree. Valyraen and I feel that if you have to prove you own someone, you really don't.

That is nonsensical. How can testing something invalidate it's truth value? I can certainly see the point that you don't need to test something for it to exist, but testing for existence can not validate existence. It can either provide evidence for existence or not.

It seems to me that you are basing your relationship on a kind of faith that is destroyed when the scientific method is applied to it.

Taggard

He commands. I obey. He owns me. I submit to his will before my own.

What else needs to happen to prove to him that I'm his?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:04:16 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
Your point comes across loud and clear but I do have a question for you.. what do you do when you run across a slave who doesn't find much in life to be unpleasant or when faced with something unpleasant it turns them into a pile of goo?

I thank my lucky stars...*wink* I love piles of slutty goo!

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:06:59 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
A question: can property have feelings?

Of course! A slave (human property) has emotions, opinions, thoughts, ideas, and every other aspect of humanity that those who are not owned have. The difference is that they are property and can be treated as such. In fact, they alone can be treated as property.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:07:55 AM

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

This post made me think. While I don't feel that it's necessary to be made to feel like property in order to feel owned, I find that I do many of the things that you enjoy.

For example, I like the long lasting marks of ownership, too. For me, this is usually a cuttings. I also share the collar fetish...it's spiritually empowering for me for someone worthy to wear my collar.

I also loan my girl out, for non-sexual, non-BDSM service, all the time. I say, "girl, go do X," and she says, "Ma'am yes Ma'am." "MYM" NEVER gets old!

I, too, will push someone if I'm spiritually called to do so and usually this means doing something they don't like or really want to do. My girl didn't like to be pierced...she had a psychological block about it. I made her do it...and it forced her to deal with the block. Now, she has no problems.

Again, I don't necessarily think that these things are a requirement in a relationship. But, in all honesty, when I think of those like me in my Leather Tribe...we all do most of these things.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:08:29 AM

Posts: 11766
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quote:

This is exactly it! I want proof that I am not just imagining the nature of my relationships.

Taggard, You're asking for someone else to give you confidence. Funny thing about that, when you stop requiring or needing outside input for confirmation - then you'll have it. Short of that, all you'll gain from this exercise is rationalization of correct with opinions that concur with you and incorrect to those that don't.

Did someone suggest that you try this without giving a reason but insisting you would "grow" in the process?

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:09:17 AM

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Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Some people require hard physical evidence of a fact while others can be satisfied with conceptual knowledge.

It is no different than a believer of god and an atheist in many ways. Some people are satisfied with the belief, wether shared or not matters, that god exists. Others, because they have no factual proof, call it nonexistant. All sorts of things can apply to this thought process.

I think it is very individualistic and only determined by the people involved in each specific relationship or owner/property situation. Some people need some sort of outside validation, others do not. One is not more correct than another, just different.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:09:58 AM

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

To quote an opinion of a friend that I completely agree with, a slave who wont enforce their own boundaries with a Master is the worst kind of slave to own.

Interesting concept but not one I can really wrap my head around. If a Master has a slave with less boundaries than themself, it all becomes rather moot, in my opinion.

quote:

As far as the other question, unpleasant is as subjective as pleasant. What would a Master do if they had a slave who found nothing pleasant when their goal was to make the life of the slave as pleasant as possible with gossimer pillows and slippers?

Just a bit species here and doesn't speak to the actual question. If you need some sort of proof of ownership and believe that making your slave suffer through unpleasantness is proof, then you give a command which your slave finds unpleasant.. that slave complies and gets worked up into a frenzy by it .. how is that 'proof' of your ownership via the suffering of your slave when the reality is.. your slave isn't suffering, she's hotter than a pistol and dripping like a newly washed towel?

quote:

I would say in both cases there is a good chance things wont work out because they arent a good match.

Again, I don't see what this has to do with anything. We're not talking about making a relationship work or not work, we're talking about proving that you own someone. Most relationships these day are temporary (go to any website that has marriage statistics on it and the rate is over 50% now). The one thing has nothing to do with the other.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:11:15 AM

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Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
But it's up to the owner to determine how to treat his or her property--not pundits on Collarme.

I am not so sure of that... Property has an objective meaning. You can treat your slave however you like, but there are only a limited number of fairly defined ways in which you can treat them like property.

Taggard

A question: can property have feelings?

I think the issue here is one that a person who desires to be property, also desires to be treated more like an object, in a relationship that is void of many of the emotional contexts. I own a dog, and he is my best friend. I own a toaster, but I don't call the toaster my friend.

So, the question is one of a more personal (or relationship) nature. Does the slave (and the master for that matter) wish to own on as they would own a dog, or instead own as they would own a toaster (in this example).

In either event, I maintain control over that which I own. If my toaster disobeys me (by burning the toast), I end up slapping it before giving it the task to do again.

If my dog is disobedient, I may stroke him with a rolled up news paper (or a riding crop in some cases), and expect him to not repeat the bad behavior.

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:15:17 AM

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

I thank my lucky stars...*wink* I love piles of slutty goo!

Taggard

Yup, I'm really liking this thread!

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:21:01 AM

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
A question: can property have feelings?

Of course! A slave (human property) has emotions, opinions, thoughts, ideas, and every other aspect of humanity that those who are not owned have. The difference is that they are property and can be treated as such. In fact, they alone can be treated as property.

Taggard

I'm not convinced and wonder whether a slave wouldn't be a possession rather than a piece of property. Semantics, semantics.

Then again, Derrida and Wittgenstein always rocked my boat.

_____________________________

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:36:10 AM

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

A real master who truly owns a woman as property should be able to sell off one of her kidneys without asking, anyone else is just a pussy.

Yes, but it's only authentic if the kidney is removed using a spork, and without anesthesia.

_____________________________

marie.

I give good agita.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:39:02 AM

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Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

"Property" may have an objective meaning, but "how I'd like to treat my property" doesn't. That should be pretty obvious, TDW.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
But it's up to the owner to determine how to treat his or her property--not pundits on Collarme.

I am not so sure of that... Property has an objective meaning. You can treat your slave however you like, but there are only a limited number of fairly defined ways in which you can treat them like property.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:51:49 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

A real master who truly owns a woman as property should be able to sell off one of her kidneys without asking, anyone else is just a pussy.

Yes, but it's only authentic if the kidney is removed using a spork, and without anesthesia.

Damn. Can they at least have whiskey to kinda dull the pain?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to marieToo)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 11:53:55 AM

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Joined: 5/5/2005
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Personally, she is my slave whether or not what we are doing is pleasurable or uncomfortable for her.

She has admitted that when I make her do things that she finds uncomfortable, it helps reinforce the difference in her mind. That is all the "proof" that I need to do whatever I wish to do.

She loves to say "This isn't fair, you get to do <insert activity here> to me and I don't get to do it to you." and my reply has been "I never said it would be fair or equal. We both have our roles. Who is in control?" She simply smiles and complies.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:09:36 PM

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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Very very revealing thread!

Celeste, when you get around to publishing a "best of" I want a first edition. I must admit I thought you were full of shit when we first met here but you have truly won me over and opened my eyes. A certain woman is going to be reading and digesting what you wrote more than a few times and so thank you very very much.

Internal and external validation is something I still struggle with, sometimes I can subsist on internal and sometimes I need external but internal sure is a hell of a lot nicer.

(in reply to QuietlySeeking)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:10:38 PM

Posts: 85
Joined: 7/10/2007
From: Daddy's Tower, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I have never understood the idea that "if it's easy and what you want and enjoy then it's not submission"

Isn't the RELATIONSHIP what you want and enjoy? Does that mean you aren't a submissive because you WANT the relationship? What about couples who "naturally" are just dom and sub together? Because they didn't have to work to "feel that way" does that mean it's not enough of a struggle to call it submission/domination? If you easily and happily call him sir does that mean it's not really submissive calling him sir?

No i wan't inferring that if you want the relationship it that it isn't submission...and i also didn't mean to imply that if things are naturally what they are then there isn't submission (my relationship is one where he is naturally what he is and i am naturalaly what i am).... i also wasn't implying that if you enjoy it then you aren't submitting...sometimes, you are enjoying it though, simply beause it brings the Dominant pleasure....

And of course it is only my opinion...

If it is something that i would be doing anyway...and he says lets do "that" thing....then i am still doing what i want to do...but if he says....lets do "this" thing and i'd rather not but do it anyway...then that is when i am submitting to his wishes in a deeper way. (and not necessarily as a testing thing or proving thing)

This can be something as simple for me as eating real butter on my broccoli...i don't do butter....haven't ever...and use only butter spray for many years...but i submit to his wishes when he puts butter on my broccoli and i eat it....

Then on a harder level...if i endure more pain because he wants to inflict more pain during a scene...if it pushes me past my edge of comfort....if i accept someone going down on me for his pleasure....if i do ATM...these are instances where my submission to him is deepened....because i selflessly submitted to what he wanted.

If he only took me to where he knew i'd be comfortable and enjoying it and wanting it then that would be equal ground....if i only accepted penetration from someone, because i like that waaaay more than oral....but he wanted me to recevie oral and be used in that way....then where is the submission? If i only do what is easy, what i want to do, what i find comfortable then we are more equal....IMO....

And i still say that a state of mind or being is a very powerful thing, so just because this is how i feel within my relationship does not mean that i think it is true across the board for everyone.

_____________________________

~cherry
a.k.a. charismagirrl

For today i won't say but...
For today i won't say just....
For today i will simply obey...
For always i will be your imperfect slave.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

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