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RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:11:44 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
What else needs to happen to prove to him that I'm his?

For you, apparently nothing. But I strongly object to the notion that my need for proof somehow means I have less ownership of my slave, which is what you explicitly stated above. It certainly may mean I have less faith in my relationships (to which I would not argue one bit, I strive to eliminate all aspects of faith in my life), but it does not mean they are any less owner/property relationships, simple because I like to test them.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:13:27 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
"MYM" NEVER gets old!

Amen and pass the slave!

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:18:34 PM

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Ownership is one of my major kinks. I like knowing, in some real and objectvie way, that I actually do own my slave. Things like collars and brands turn me on to know end because they exist outside of my feelings and outside of any bond forged between myself and my slave. I like to share my slaves because it makes tangible the fact that they are property. As I said in the "sharing" thread, I can not loan what I do not own. Sure one can own something and not use it in the ways one uses real property (real in the sense of real estate), and sure there are other ways to highlight that one owns someone else. However, there is no question about the concept of ownership when a Master gives his slave away for a few hours.

So you have a slave who doesn't mind collars, brands, being loaned out or whatever else is within your framework...what then? You have her do things you don't want done that still might not be things she'd mind, what if she was just happy to do any them for you? I never suggested in the other thread he doesn't use her like real property just guess what? The uses he happens to have for property don't cause her hardship..he should alter his life so she can feel more like property?

quote:

The question of "suffering" is an interesting one as well. Whenever I begin negotiations with a slave, I make it very clear the "slavery is not always fun." For me, again, I like tangible evidence that the relationship I have with my property is Master/slave. This means that only forcing them to do things they want to do just won't cut it. I have to re-enforce the idea that they are slaves by throwing in some unpleasantness...otherwise, it is purely a subjective and theoretic Master/slave relationship.

Being homeless, no money, my little one starving..that is suffering to me. Punching/kicking/choking(things he does to me get his nut off) are painful and unpleasant...a trial?, a sacrifice? compared to homeless and destitute? nope. Loaning me out to be gangbanged by x number of sadistic strangers to me..a little scary but a trial? a test of endurance? suffering? nope, not compared to what suffering could be for me. Being made to earn for him by working 60-72 hours a week for years like I did were tiring but a trial or a hardship? suffering? nope, at least I had job in a career I'd always wanted to work in, with an education paid for by him. Now being used as a companion, phased out of work, traveing with him, him enjoying the fruits of his labor with a female and wanting that female to be me, when I want to kept in a deathcamp...a trial? suffering? nope.

There isn't anything within his framework that he would order that would cause me genuine suffering, he had have to start getting into things that hurt my kiddo, or put me in jail away from my kiddo..and those things are just not a use he has for me. I'm a companion now and a former workhorse, sending me to jail or hurting my kid isn't something he is going to do just so he can say he has made me suffer in a way that I would call a hardship, perhaps if you owned me you would, then I would be suffering hardships.

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:18:44 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Taggard, You're asking for someone else to give you confidence.

I think you misunderstand. I am not looking to anyone for anything. The things I do with my slave could be done with no one present at all. I could create a sign that says "Fuck my ass", hang it from my slave's neck and then take her to a swinger's party, leaving her off at the door then coming back to pick her up in an hour. I wouldn't care if anything happened. I wouldn't care if I never met a single person from that party. I would simply revel in the overwhelming evidence that I owned that slave.

You can't put a "for sale" sign in the window of a car that is not yours. And even if no one ever saw that sign, the act of putting that sign in the window is an irrefutable act of ownership.

It has nothing to do with what others think, or how others react. It has everything to do with how I feel when I exercise my rights as an owner of property in a tangible way.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:20:35 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
It is no different than a believer of god and an atheist in many ways.

Which do you think I am? *smile*

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Just like in my rejection of religion, I need more than words to make my spirit soar.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:24:21 PM

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Taggard, You're asking for someone else to give you confidence.

I think you misunderstand. I am not looking to anyone for anything. The things I do with my slave could be done with no one present at all. I could create a sign that says "Fuck my ass", hang it from my slave's neck and then take her to a swinger's party, leaving her off at the door then coming back to pick her up in an hour. I wouldn't care if anything happened. I wouldn't care if I never met a single person from that party. I would simply revel in the overwhelming evidence that I owned that slave.

You can't put a "for sale" sign in the window of a car that is not yours. And even if no one ever saw that sign, the act of putting that sign in the window is an irrefutable act of ownership.

It has nothing to do with what others think, or how others react. It has everything to do with how I feel when I exercise my rights as an owner of property in a tangible way.

Taggard

Ok so you exercise your rights to use your property in any way you see fit( doesn't every owner?)...if that way doesn't equate to some form of genuine suffering or hardship to her the rights you just exercsed as her owner are now something else? Because she just went along with it or maybe didn't care for it but compared to people in this world who really suffer what you are asking is small potatoes that invalidates your ownership?

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:27:21 PM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
It has nothing to do with what others think, or how others react. It has everything to do with how I feel when I exercise my rights as an owner of property in a tangible way.

Taggard

I think he was suggesting that the "someone else" is the slave.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:29:59 PM

Posts: 73
Joined: 5/14/2004
Status: offline

For me its in the beginning that a slave proves their loyalty and how far they will go. Taking them to places they never thought they could, having them do things that are against their nature in short putting them through the paces. Now once they prove themselves to me, and that is at least 6 months time then I will fall into a routine that will tap into them and also serve me as I see fit.
slaves are human and if you always push them to the max at some point they may shut down or go into a worm hole and getting them back to were you had them is a lot of work and sometimes not possible.
The mere fact that the two of you know what is there, as been there and what is expected is the key.
Unlike a sub, a slave has no rights but that doesnt mean they are mindless idiots and that they can contribute in many ways.
In my house my word is final we all know that and its accepted with no arguement. Now I will ask for an opinion or they may respectfully offer an idea or opinion. I take these all seriously and sometimes will go with what the think because it makes sense too, other times I dont.
Owning someone is a responsibilty first and foremost. That person as placed their lives in your hands so., at least for me, its important that they are happy in thier service. Does that mean that they are always comfortable? No does it mean they know that I take care of my property, yes
William

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:31:57 PM

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
It is no different than a believer of god and an atheist in many ways.

Which do you think I am? *smile*

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Just like in my rejection of religion, I need more than words to make my spirit soar.

Taggard

Would it be too presumptuous of me to say, "I already know"?

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:33:12 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie
The uses he happens to have for property don't cause her hardship..he should alter his life so she can feel more like property?

You have mixed the concept of ownership with the concept of slavery. Slavery is a particular kind of ownership. (The term slavery has been so overloaded with meaning that I can only talk about my concept of slavery, which will differ from everyone else's concept of slavery.)

Acts of ownership are acts of ownership even if the property loves doing said acts. Acts of slavery, on the other hand, are more meaningful if they are done purely at the owners request and would not have been done otherwise. I am not really saying they have to be particularly nasty (though they often are), they just have to be involuntary.

What would I do if my slave wanted to do everything I asked? I would die a happy man, I suppose... However, back on planet Earth, no one I have ever met wants to do all the thing I ask voluntarily.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to BeingChewsie)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:39:20 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I'm not convinced and wonder whether a slave wouldn't be a possession rather than a piece of property. Semantics, semantics.

Could you explain what you see as the difference?

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to kittinSol)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:40:59 PM

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

For me, i think it really depends on what type of evidence would be enough to satisfy this need in you. For my Master, it's enough for Him to be able to leave me alone for whatever length of time and know that i am still here for Him, doing what i am supposed to be doing for Him and ready for whatever He decides He wants me to do, at any time, even without my being chained and locked or otherwise "forced" to stay and serve. It's sort of like this (a twist on an old poem):

"If you own something, set it free. If it doesn't return to you, you never really owned it, anyway."

The actual line from the poem, by Alison Willcocks is, "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it doesn't, it never was." For my Master and me, every day is a test of my commitment to Him, to be His and only His to do with as He pleases, as well as of His commitment to me, to own me and control me to a degree that is only possible between a Master and a slave. i also believe fully in the concept and practice of "Internal Enslavement", which is a process that takes time, but is extremely effective in creating an environment that makes me bound to my Master more securely than any cage or chain could. By creating an environment that requires and allows me to safely open up and expose myself to Him completely, without holding anything back from Him, not a thought, even negative ones, not a feeling or emotion, He has established ownership of me, inside and out. i no longer have any ownership of myself. Not even of my own my private thoughts. This makes me very vulnerable to Him, and makes me, not a prisoner to Him, but rather, a devoted servant to Him, completely divested of any personal freedom or rights of my own, not because that is what i want, but because that is the overwhelming need i have inside me and He is the only one who can fulfill that need in me. This, in turn, makes me deeply devoted to Him and unquestionably obedient to Him. And, it isn't something that mere words, or a piece of paper, or any form of body art, can show proof of. It is the day-to-day, unwavering, persistent, and uncompromising servitude that i render to my Master, that shows Him that i am His slave. To me, if you need external, physical forms of restraint or control to own someone, then you don't really own them. You merely have temporary possession of them and temporary use of them. Knowing that you have control of another and full use of them, without the external and visible means of control is, to me, far more powerful and meaningful and lasting. Just this slave's perspective. slave joyOwned property of Master David "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty
I am sure, for many people, just knowing that they could and would do the unpleasant things (they just don't want to) is enough for them to feel like Master and slave. It just isn't enough for me. I need evidence. I need proof.

Thoughts?

Taggard

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:46:46 PM

NefertariReborn

Posts: 381
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

A real master who truly owns a woman as property should be able to sell off one of her kidneys without asking, anyone else is just a pussy.

*literally fell out of the couch with laughter* You have a sarcastic wit that keeps this board lively.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:48:26 PM

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Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

I think much of this boils down to license plates. Some people don't even notice them, some put a bright shiny chrome one on them, and other people have to put one that says "mercedes" on them.

All three own the car, although the ones with the random plates probably own them outright and the ones that say "mercedes" are probably owned by the bank and the "owner" is making payments.

Food for thought.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:54:49 PM

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyscherry

Although i don't think that it all has to be unpleasant and distasteful i do agree with Taggard that there is something to be said for having to do things like this.

my Daddy said to me once that obeying when it was easy didn't mean as much as obeying when it was really difficult to do...where is the submission in obeying only the things that you want to obey or find pleasurable to do? If not challenged to submit in the face of something you might not readily agree with,desire or whatever then where is the submission?

It doesn't have to be a sharing thing and i am really not trying to say that what i described above is right or true or anything.....because a state of mind, regardless, can be a very powerful thing....

It can be something as simple as having to wear something that you don't want to wear....My Daddy once had me wear an outfit that just SCREAMED hooker out to meet an old friend of his....we were supposed to go to dinner in Beverly Hills to some posh place and here I was gonna look like I was rented entertainment....It felt awful at first....then i just accepted that my Daddy wanted me to wear it....it was a struggle though. But as HIS he can chose to have me dressed any way he chooses.

That's a small example...there have been other bigger ones, that i have just hd to grin and bear because that was what he wanted. Each time, it makes me personally feel more like his slave.

I have also had fantasies about this very thing, considering writing a story about it for my site....

Cherry,
It seems to me that you did write about something like this on your site (and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.)

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to daddyscherry)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 12:56:17 PM

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

There's property and there's property. If you own a brand new Ferrari, I doubt you would leave it unwashed if it got road salt on it, lend it to a friend who tends to drink and drive etc. You wouldn't make it do difficult things like go off road. You would spend a great deal of your time and money tending to it. Heated garage, car wash, oil change etc.

Now if instead you owned the 93 Lumina sedan I just traded in after my oldest learned to drive on it, you wouldn't do much more than add power steering fluid weekly and fill it will gas. And you wouldn't care if a friend's student driver used it and broke down, because it wouldn't be worth anything. $400 blue book.

The op seems to be saying that he doesn't want a slave who is the equivalent of a Ferrari but instead one who is a rustbucket. As long as he's straight forward with the women he talks to, that's fine. For me, either I'm the most valuable piece of property he has or I'm not with him. That's my bottom line.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 1:04:15 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43
The op seems to be saying that he doesn't want a slave who is the equivalent of a Ferrari but instead one who is a rustbucket.

Can you point to where I implied that in any of my posts?

Because I drive my car hard doesn't mean I don't care about my car...nor does it mean I will settle for any old car.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Celeste43)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 1:10:40 PM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
What else needs to happen to prove to him that I'm his?

For you, apparently nothing. But I strongly object to the notion that my need for proof somehow means I have less ownership of my slave, which is what you explicitly stated above. It certainly may mean I have less faith in my relationships (to which I would not argue one bit, I strive to eliminate all aspects of faith in my life), but it does not mean they are any less owner/property relationships, simple because I like to test them.

Taggard

You can't trust that you own your slave. You have to constently prove that you own it. To me, that shows you doubt your ownership. How much can you own something if even you are not sure you own it?

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/20/2007 1:11:11 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 1:22:36 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
You can't trust that you own your slave. You have to constently prove that you own it. To me, that shows you doubt your ownership. How much can you own something if even you are not sure you own it?

What does doubt have to do with fact? How does questioning change reality? If I doubt my own existence, will I disappear?

Thinking something does not make it so. Doubting something does not make it vanish.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Are you really owned if you are not treated like pr... - 7/20/2007 1:27:11 PM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
You can't trust that you own your slave. You have to constently prove that you own it. To me, that shows you doubt your ownership. How much can you own something if even you are not sure you own it?

What does doubt have to do with fact? How does questioning change reality? If I doubt my own existence, will I disappear?

Thinking something does not make it so. Doubting something does not make it vanish.

Taggard

Doubting something can make it vanish, people grow tired of being doubted all the time and may not stick around.

Thinking something is so can kick you in the ass when you realize it isn't. I find it works best to make sure, and then not ruin something by continuing to question loyalties when there is no evidence of disloyality. People have lost many relationships that way.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 7/20/2007 1:28:01 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

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