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mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 12:47:18 AM

londonron

Posts: 6
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

as an allround nice man i am very funny, very kind and will always think of my friends,subs and family etc. It is so annoying that this is seen as non "manly" by people. Do I really have to be someone i am not just to get my foot in the door and then show them real men dont feel a need to prove it by never being sensitive?

I spend time getting to know the person, what they do in their day to day life so i can get a feel for who they are as i want to know them. i want to do what works so its an honest question, should i just let my knowledge of them come in its own time and just be a bit quicker with the demands for what i want. I am happy to wait for "the one" as i want a long term when its right but for regular medium term play partners i guess i am being dumb.

Post #: 1

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 1:08:33 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline

Many do not see such things as "unmanly". Know yourself, be yourself, find those that fit into who and what you are. There also will always be those that disagree or dislike you, for whatever reason; if you let them put you off your path every time you meet up with them, then you're going to have a hard time of it.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 2

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 1:56:12 AM

earthycouple

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline

I'd love to find more people like you, thankyouverymuch *S*

Your approach would be welcomed by the likes of this chick (enjoys a man who enjoys the pre pre foreplay stage!)

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to Level)

Post #: 3

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 2:00:35 AM

Ericus1

Posts: 47
Joined: 1/13/2007
Status: offline

i have been told on many occasions that i am too much of a gentleman. get annoying at times. but is just who i am.

ericus

(in reply to earthycouple)

Post #: 4

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 2:21:07 AM

utterlybutterfli

Posts: 49
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline

I think a man running to tell me there's a spider in the bath and could I get rid of it is 'unmanly'
I think a man failing to take responsibility for his own behavior is 'unmanly'
I think general rudeness and unpleasantness is 'unmanly'
I cannot think of many women who think that pleasantness, courtesy and respect is unmanly

Please don't pretend to be someone you're not, some of us are looking are looking for "nice" people and those who aren't, frankly, aren't going to want you very much when they've found out you're not so much a wolf in sheep's clothing as a sheep in wolf's clothing.
My view though (as a submissive), is only to echo what Level has said and suggest you try and find others that are willing to fit in with you and what you want. I have to say, I'm not so sure I'd be comfortable if my Dominant, in the 'getting to know you stage' was too worried about my possible rejection of him to just be himself, and run at a pace he felt comfortable with - after all, he's the Dom, right?

I wish I could remember where, but I saw a good post on here the other day that said, and I paraphrase "I don't look for relationships, I look into relationships", maybe if we all took that view, then it would be easier to find a better fit, so to speak, because we would be weighed down less by expectation and more attracted by mutual interest.

Anyhoo, I go on rather, I wish you the best of luck

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 5

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 3:13:54 AM

londonron

Posts: 6
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

i know ill never change being me, its just annoying to have to think maybe its a good idea to wait a while rather than ask about stuff that should be the first things i feel you should ask. funny with the spider comment as i did remove one in a timely manly fashion last month at a subs house and saw her swoon which was very nice to see.

but i do know a few sub girls who have got past that stage and opened up and we all get on well. I even have a sub gym buddy but i cant get her to lift the weights for me yet.

(in reply to utterlybutterfli)

Post #: 6

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 4:28:43 AM

Cyntilating

Posts: 581
Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: londonron

as an allround nice man i am very funny, very kind and will always think of my friends,subs and family etc. It is so annoying that this is seen as non "manly" by people. Do I really have to be someone i am not just to get my foot in the door and then show them real men dont feel a need to prove it by never being sensitive?

I spend time getting to know the person, what they do in their day to day life so i can get a feel for who they are as i want to know them. i want to do what works so its an honest question, should i just let my knowledge of them come in its own time and just be a bit quicker with the demands for what i want. I am happy to wait for "the one" as i want a long term when its right but for regular medium term play partners i guess i am being dumb.

Hi Ron
I can only speak for myself, and I know there are some out there do think the way you are referring to...But, not all of us do. Personally, ( and I will in this case speak for more than a handful of submissive women that have shared their views on this matter with me over the years ) when I come across a "big'olbadass" type dom who feel they have to portray themselves with meaness, lack of care or concern, "gonna whip'da bitch" cuz i can control you attitude> it really says more to me about their insecurities and lack of understanding their own dominance, than it does their strength or strength of character.
And I would like to also add that knowing that we are all human ( this isnt fantasy land and we all do have lives and families and day to day stuff we deal with and obstacles, good days bad hair days, down time, up times ...bills to pay, kids to shuttle to and fro..etc...and a sense of humor and calm caring nature is essential!!! seeing how someone deals with all of THAT stuff, imo, is more of a testament to their character and "manlyness" as you put it...
The Man I served for 10 years was a born and raised Southern Gentleman...chivalrous, oh yes.. adores his 2 cats....has the most patient and kindest attitude towards life and others..and we made/make each other laugh constantly!!. yet, there was never a doubt in my mind about his self-control or control of US...
I'm not sure what the male equivalent is of the old adage " Librarian by day, Tiger behind closed door " but..whatever that would be >> fill it in here with regards to him..

Level, said it well ( as usual ) know yourself and be yourself..the rest will happen..you will attract who and what is right for you ..

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 7

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 4:54:50 AM

MistressMadame

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

Some people like being treated like shit because they are insecure and use the attention to play victim or justify some preconceived, jaded notion. Either way, there is always an ulterior motive... As long as you know who you are, you shouldn't have to feel compelled to justify your manliness to anyone-- it is annoying though.

To Me, it just sounds like your mama raised you right .

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 8

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 5:11:50 AM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressMadame

Some people like being treated like shit because they are insecure and use the attention to play victim or justify some preconceived, jaded notion. Either way, there is always an ulterior motive... As long as you know who you are, you shouldn't have to feel compelled to justify your manliness to anyone-- it is annoying though.

To Me, it just sounds like your mama raised you right .

Everyone has an ulterior motive?

I sure hope not.

To the OP, yes there are some who will see kindness as weakness but in reality it is a strength. Stay who you are, stick to what you believe is your truth and you will find someone who fits you.
If you try and change your kindness and generosity I don't think you would be happy with yourself or with whoever is attracted to that. It wouldn't be 'you'.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to MistressMadame)

Post #: 9

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 6:52:40 AM

YourShyPet

Posts: 185
Joined: 6/30/2006
Status: offline

The only person that I have ever felt submissive to is my Daddy, and he is one of the most kindest...gentlest...selfless... caring people I know... To me your not a "real man" and sometimes I will question on whether you are a real human being if you come at me with that "super macho manly man" attitude... If your honest with yourself... I don't see where you can go wrong.

_____________________________

kittin

http://www.myspace.com/daddys_kittin

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 10

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 7:28:30 AM

Babybass

Posts: 230
Joined: 7/30/2007
Status: offline

Ron,
You can only be yourself - and not everyone will like that. The people that do like that, and like you are the ones worth your time and effort. If someone rejects you because they think that you aren't manly enough then really they aren't worth it. They will sap your energy. I believe that it takes more of a man to be true to himself than to conform to the image of what the world perceives to be a 'manly' man.
My Master is one of the gentlest men i have ever known - he has impecible manners and treats everyone with the utmost respect. He is not great with feelings, but does try to share them, even though he finds it very difficult. But i see him as more of a man than any of the other 'manly' men i have ever been out with.

_____________________________

"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best day and night to make you like everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight and never stop fighting" - e e cummings

(in reply to YourShyPet)

Post #: 11

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 7:33:53 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

The only thing you'll get if you change who you are in order to get someone is someone who had to be convinced that you're someone else in order to be with you.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_856653/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#857014
too nice

http://www.collarchat.com/m_848523/mpage_2/key_gentleman/tm.htm#848969
Mr. Nice guy is not Mr. Nice Dom?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_825792/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#825829
Can a dom be a gentleman?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_799563/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#799760
what makes a 'real' dom?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_775753/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#775760
dominants who show emotions, weakness or vulnerability

http://www.collarchat.com/m_771270/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#771630
Does gentle master mean weak?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_668725/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#668733
Too polite?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_505491/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#505668
Seeking consensus: dominant as gentleman?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_433779/mpage_1/key_gentleman/tm.htm#433966
Master...in slaves' eyes!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_380311/mpage_2/key_gentleman%252Cdom/tm.htm#384513
dom vs gentleman

http://www.collarchat.com/m_266268/mpage_1/key_gentleman%252Cdom/tm.htm#266288
the gentleman dom with feelings

Is the term gentleman dom an oxymoron?

Gentlemen vs nice guy

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 12

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 7:45:20 AM

feastie

Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline

Ron, kindness is not weakness. Be who you are. Trying to be someone else will only cause you pain. In the end, you'll find someone who appreciates you for you.

That's what I hold onto daily.

Good Luck.

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 13

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 7:49:22 AM

justinfun

Posts: 7
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline

I've had some similar struggles as I've stepped into the lifestyle. Been told I was too vanilla, was really a switch or a sub. What I found was that labels don't mean much as in the end you define who you are by how you act not by dropping a bunch of labels on your profile. I also discovered a great deal of joy in being a Daddy Dom (ok, so that's a label) and have since that discovery opened up a wonderful relationship with a daughter sub half my age. All is well and the foundation of it is the nice guy that I've always been ... yes, demanding and in charge, but in a caring, nurturing, guiding way that I get as much pleasure from as the other aspects of our life.

Different strokes for different folks. There are some out there that get off on being or being done by the macho type. You aren't that type from your description. The worst thing you could do is try to change to meet the needs of a sub who enjoys that type of Dom. It'll either come off as fake or you'll not enjoy yourself nearly as much as if you stay you. Be true to yourself and you'll find a match that works.

You sound about where I was when I was in the midst of struggling through all that. Good luck working it out.

(in reply to YourShyPet)

Post #: 14

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 9:20:08 AM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

Maybe the problem isn't being nice or a gentleman. Maybe its in how these submissives were approached. Or maybe it could be someone discussing how many times women have blocked him in his journal or calling people dumb and stupid. Just a thought.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to justinfun)

Post #: 15

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 9:26:44 AM

BlueCollar

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: londonron

as an allround nice man i am very funny, very kind and will always think of my friends,subs and family etc. It is so annoying that this is seen as non "manly" by people. Do I really have to be someone i am not just to get my foot in the door and then show them real men dont feel a need to prove it by never being sensitive?

I spend time getting to know the person, what they do in their day to day life so i can get a feel for who they are as i want to know them. i want to do what works so its an honest question, should i just let my knowledge of them come in its own time and just be a bit quicker with the demands for what i want. I am happy to wait for "the one" as i want a long term when its right but for regular medium term play partners i guess i am being dumb.

I too get pretty frustrated over this sorta perception people have. I like to consider myself polite and considerate of others. I can be a bit of an asshole at times, but more like one of those friendly loudmouth assholes who enjoys a good laugh. When it comes to BDSM, I still behave and act like I would in any other scenario. Like you, I don't believe I need to put on some sort of false "macho idiot" persona to find a partner, yet it seems like you and I are in the minority at times.

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 16

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 9:34:03 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

Ron,
All this advice about "just be yourself" is true in a sense, but ultimately of no help. The be yourself crowd acts like there is only one you, but in reality there are multiple you's. Are you the same person when you talk to your parents as when you go out with your friends? Are you the same person at work as you are out on a date?

Obviously, the core person is always you, but there are layers of us that we turn on and off depending on the occasion we are in. That is why the "be yourself" advise is true, but in the end, useless.

As others have said, you don't want to be someone you are not. That is misleading and ultimately will cause problems in the relationship when you cannot keep up the act. Yet when you are talking with a potential sub, you sure don't want to act like the "you" that you are around your parents. Beginning to make sense?

Being kind, funny and caring are all good qualities to project. You just need to combine the Dominant part of yourself with those other qualities when speaking with potential subs. If you are strong, your actions should show you are strong, if you are in control, your actions should show that, and so on, and so on.

Bottom line, you need to pull the different layers of you that would most achieve the effect you want and mesh them into a persona. You should then practice that persona. Actually speak and act in front of a mirror out the message you want to project. Practicing is very important.

Doing this is not in any way dishonest, as long as you use various parts of your true personality, and don't add into that anything you are not.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 17

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 11:47:41 AM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Its ashame that some people feel that politeness and common curtesy are "unmanly"....because it is indeed NOT.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 18

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 11:50:21 AM

sublizzie

Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline

Frankly I find someone who is polite, kind, and generally a nice guy much more interesting than the jerks that I often find. I'm more apt to follow and give control to someone who has a sense of humor and honor than someone who is nasty to other people.

Just my thoughts........

_____________________________

"cooking is my kink"

Collared June 19, 2008
(uncollared 12/21/09 with his death. RIP my Santa)

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 19

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 12:07:32 PM

ProlificNeeds

Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline

Personally, I want to know the person, before the Dom. I want to know someone as they are in everyday life. Their favorite curse words, if they pick their nose, that they let little kids put suckers in their beards. Stupid stuff that shows patience and consideration. Those are the real parts. There are a million and one guys going "I AM MANLY RARWR!" so I can get my fill of that any hour of the day... finding someone genuine and open, THAT's the rare find.

Besides, I'd like to know anyone I allowed into my life in any serious measure, is going to be polite and respectful of my family, and the things I consider important in my life. You gotta be the kind of person who can meet the family, right? Unless you don't want to be that kind of guy that can be included in all aspects of your girls life, which doesn't seem to be the case givent he tone of your post.

For raw appeal, I'm sure we all like a page out of the romance novel, but, books get put away, and then we get back to reality. Anyone who doesn't want a realistic partner, probably isn't down-to-earth enough for you anyway. If you want to make a connection with someone based on sexual appeal, you might need to put on an act, but if you want a connection based on who you are and what you're comfortable with, just keep cruising along as you are, you'll find someone who will not only appreciate your nature, but want to make you a regular part of their day.

As for play partners... "Hey I don't care if you're the one, bend over and let me paddle you raw." might work...

(in reply to sublizzie)

Post #: 20

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