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RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 1:07:33 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

I'm wondering if you don't give off any dominant vibes when with a newly met sub? There's a difference between saying "I would like to take you to dinner Saturday, what time are you available, where would you like to go" and saying "How about I pick you up Saturday at 7 and we go to the new fish place. Do you have a problem with any of that"

The first is very nice but has no sense of leadership. The second way you are leading the entire time but give her the option of saying she's allergic to fish or won't be done with her tennis date till 7:30.

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 21

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 4:07:46 PM

aeaa

Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline

Hi,

I'm new to this particular forum but found this particular topic interesting.

I think what most women want is a man who is confident and secure in who and what he is.

I tend to notice a man who carries himself with the confidence of not really worrying about how his words or actions are being judged. A man who doesn't hesitate but just moves and speaks as comes natural to him.

If you do these things as well as behave as you say with manners and kindness, I am not sure how anyone could mistake your words and actions as weakness.

Take care,

aeaa

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 22

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 4:12:25 PM

Vampyrefledgling

Posts: 91
Joined: 7/10/2007
Status: offline

It is sad that people equate kindness with weakness, when the truth is it takes more strength to be kind often times than it does to be cruel. To sacrifice one's own selfish desires and put the needs of others first is not always an easy thing to do. No one ever said that chivalry was an easy thing, and it warms my heart to hear that it isn't dead.

As a submissive, granted one who is new to this lifestyle and has yet to ever be collared, I would like to have a Master who spent the time getting to know me as a person outside of my submissive nature. To know that I am, in fact afraid of spiders and be aware that he would be the one who would have to dispose of the little buggers (the mention of spiders earlier made me laugh so I had to mention my own fear of the ickey creatures). I feel this sort of bonding is necessary in any relationship. I applaud you londonron for your approach!

Don't worry what others say. You know your strength, that your kindness is exactly that and be patient. Your 'one' is out there somewhere.

~Fledgling

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 23

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 4:44:46 PM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline

Its not that "nice guys" finish last
Its not that kindness or being a gentleman is viewed as "unmanly"

I'm a nice guy, I'm kind, and I absolutely am a gentleman... and I have no trouble at all attracting women. Maybe these "nice guys" need to stop blaming everyone else for why women aren't attracted to them and instead start looking in the mirror.

It could be that many of these "nice guys" need to learn a thing or three about flirting, being charming, what appeals to women, etc. Celeste made a very good point, many "nice guys" don't seem the least bit dominant in their behavior and don't know how to do so without going over the top and seeming arrogant or assholes. What I really liked about Celeste's post was that she pointed out how a sublte change can make a big difference.

Just a thought, but if what you are doing isn't working... try something else.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Vampyrefledgling)

Post #: 24

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 5:04:32 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

I'm wondering if you don't give off any dominant vibes when with a newly met sub? There's a difference between saying "I would like to take you to dinner Saturday, what time are you available, where would you like to go" and saying "How about I pick you up Saturday at 7 and we go to the new fish place. Do you have a problem with any of that"

Lol. This actually a really great example and on introspection, more or less my natural demeanor. In the beginning when I thought I was too "sweet and caring and compassionate" to be a dominant male, people assured me that I was and I couldnt understand what they saw in me. It wasnt until later on with much introspection that I began to become more aware of my own natural alpha personality that I was obtuse to before. It was just simply "being me".

However, I dont consider myself to be a "nice" guy but a sweet, caring and compassionate one. Nice people allow things to continue that shouldnt continue for the sake of being nice.

I often get lumped into the "nice guy" category. One girl at work kept telling me how "nice" of a guy I was and didnt understand why I said I wasnt. Unforatenely, she made plans to go to a movie with me and then proceeded to blow me off with a huge degree of indifference. The next day when I came to work and approached her, she was almost shocked and surprised when I very directly pointed out how incredibly rude she was by so nonchalantly blowing off something I had taken time to plan and get ready for.

She said she didnt expect something like that from such a "nice guy" like me

.

However, she has managed to show up for all our other plans.

So my advice is be a "sweet guy", a "caring guy", a "compassionate guy", but dont be a "nice guy".

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 25

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 6:15:46 PM

Durus

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline

I think there are a lot of people that confuse Dominants with self absorbed pricks. No offense to self absorbed pricks of course.

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 26

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 7:25:41 PM

ThunderRoad

Posts: 231
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline

On at least two or three occasions, I've had D/s relationships fall apart because I was "too nice". Hell, even when I was younger and dating vanilla, it was hard to make something last because so many women seem to be much happier being treated like shit by the football hero than give the time of day to the geek that will adore them.

Heck, even my currently relationship took a lot of work (on both our part) for us to work out the dynamics because niceity is mistaken for not being in charge. It comes together given them.

That said, to me, any sub that calls me weak for holding the door for them or giving a damn when they are down or crying at the end of Field of Dreams isn't worth the time it would take to toss their hogtied naked body out the front door!

< Message edited by ThunderRoad -- 8/13/2007 7:30:11 PM >

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 27

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/13/2007 9:31:43 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

For the life of me, I will never understand why people do not realize that being kind, gentlemanly, courteous, caring, respectful, supportive, honest and chivalrous is not mutually exclusive of being a hot, sexy, strong, capable, kinky, intense Dom.

I despair that this mythical creature does not exist, but like the unicorn, it is a nice fantasy to pursue.

(in reply to ThunderRoad)

Post #: 28

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/14/2007 1:07:00 AM

becca333

Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

For the life of me, I will never understand why people do not realize that being kind, gentlemanly, courteous, caring, respectful, supportive, honest and chivalrous is not mutually exclusive of being a hot, sexy, strong, capable, kinky, intense Dom.

I despair that this mythical creature does not exist, but like the unicorn, it is a nice fantasy to pursue.

It's not mythical - there's at least two of them walking around. And I've heard of more.

I'm a sub, but I'm also a lady, and I expect to be treated with respect. A truly great Dom is a gentleman - a sometimes deliciously scary gentleman, true, but that adds to the fun. There's an extra buzz about a Dom who shows good manners while he's putting you through a gruelling session!

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 29

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/14/2007 1:30:45 AM

MaamJay

Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline

I agree wholeheartedly that being polite etc is not undomly. Master is polite and gentlemanly and i love that. But I agree with those who have said there is a difference between well mannered and lacking leadership ... a Dominant does need to inspire the submissive to feel that way ... and He can do that with good leadership skills. Maybe that's something to look into. You could also chat to trusted friends about whether they do or don't see You as a leader and if they do sometimes, when are those times and what are You doing differently then? You don't have to breathe a word about bdsm to them ... just talk about leadership qualities.

I've had exactly the same complaints from some male subs because I am more the motherly caring type of Domme ... I can't and won't do the whole bitch Domme fantasy thing ... and I think more male subs are hung up on that one than there are fem subs who want to be with rude arrogant pricks! So by all means think a bit more about how to project Your natural Domliness ... but stick to Your guns on the good manners!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to becca333)

Post #: 30

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/14/2007 2:39:03 AM

LeatherLord2003

Posts: 23
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline

I personally am quite kind to everyone I meet, yet am told by those that I come in contact with that the "presence" of my Dominant nature is very prevelant, sometimes even intimidating. My profile speaks of the heart often and is in no way chest beating cave man style, I am very much like the words that are written, but I also am very confindent in my self and my actions.

If I have a perspective submissive over for the evening, I often will cook and take care of the mess while she sits, after all she is a guest in my home, yet I have never been told that I am "unmanly" or not Dominant. Most find it enchanting and typically when they ask if they can help, I tell them you do this, while I do a different part of dinner. Most I find will set the table on thier own and will wait for any further instructions ready to serve even in the slightest of ways. In fact if I tell them they can't help, they find it more Dominating than not for they are made to sit and it is a task they are not used to. I have been known to hold a womans purse while we shop for clothing for her. I don't worry if someone sees me doing it, I am not uncomfortable in doing so. While she tries on things, I hand her things I think I would like to see her in, after all she is dressing to please me. I voice what I like, what I don't like, listen to if she asks does this make my ass look fat, and tell her when I think it looks hot on her. It makes her feel like the sexy creature she is, and that in turn surfaces when she wears it for me. She always knows who is in control and fear isn't the motivating factor, desire is.

I will admit there are those that want a cave man, and in my opinion there is a place and a time for that as well and I have no problem letting that show when the time is right. But in all honesty, how can you have a relationship with someone if you can't have a converstation with them, you can only have so much sex and then you have to be able to talk.

Bottom line in is, your personality shines through no matter what it is, I have a huge heart and I take control. I don't know of anyone that has ever questioned that for I make it obvious in what I portray but I also don't try to intimidate or control someone that isn't mine or wanting to be mine. Those that want a chest beater 24/7 are the ones that go for the guys that send emails that state "you will be my slut and crawl to me", I just pass them by. I fuel desire, not command through fear. Let your presence be felt, and the rest will take care of itself.

< Message edited by LeatherLord2003 -- 8/14/2007 2:43:40 AM >

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 31

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/14/2007 5:31:30 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Durus

I think there are a lot of people that confuse Dominants with self absorbed pricks. No offense to self absorbed pricks of course.

None taken.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to Durus)

Post #: 32

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/14/2007 7:22:31 AM

YesMistressIrish

Posts: 1135
Joined: 5/1/2007
From: Calif
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: londonron

as an allround nice man i am very funny, very kind and will always think of my friends,subs and family etc. It is so annoying that this is seen as non "manly" by people. Do I really have to be someone i am not just to get my foot in the door and then show them real men dont feel a need to prove it by never being sensitive?

I spend time getting to know the person, what they do in their day to day life so i can get a feel for who they are as i want to know them. i want to do what works so its an honest question, should i just let my knowledge of them come in its own time and just be a bit quicker with the demands for what i want. I am happy to wait for "the one" as i want a long term when its right but for regular medium term play partners i guess i am being dumb.

I am a Mistress, however I am a Woman first. I was raised by socially adept parents who were classy, strong, smart and kind. I am savy, been around the block, and have met a lot of men in business and in social settings over the years.

Taking that domme part of me and setting it aside so I can answer you as a woman. Hope that works for you, since this is a 'Ask a Master' thread.

Manners are always a beautiful thing. Kindness is not a weakness. The strongest and most wonderful men I know are kind. imo: It is kindness that takes plenty of strength and arrogance and being mean is for the weak.

I would never want to be anyone, male of female, that said things like: "We are doing this and that, unless you have a problem with that?" I would consider that rude, if we weren't D/s already.
I guess it could be said playfully with someone, a light touch with a new sub type.

On to you:

Be YOU, not what the community seems to dictate for you, or what others seem to be. You want a sub to love and respect You, right? Well, from what you said in your starting post, seems you are a man I would respect, for being a gentleman, and wanting to connect with me before you started domming me. Being polite and having good manners is smart in this sense: people feel safe and will open up to you, and for you.
On the other hand, sometimes it is necessary to: Boom! take that lead right away. Depends on the chemistry between the 2 people involved.

Best of luck, and wish you every happiness with a sub you can Dom to your complete satisfaction!

Irish

Edited to add a favorite quote: "Good manners are the grease on the wheels of life."

And, when loving people, treating a sub like family, and being a good person becomes extinct: I will still be a dinasaur!

And, there are plenty of disrespectful pricks in the world. why not stand out differently? (grin)

(my spelling errors are forgiven, right?) *smiles

< Message edited by YesMistressIrish -- 8/14/2007 7:37:27 AM >

(in reply to londonron)

Post #: 33

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/14/2007 7:41:18 AM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

I'm wondering if you don't give off any dominant vibes when with a newly met sub? There's a difference between saying "I would like to take you to dinner Saturday, what time are you available, where would you like to go" and saying "How about I pick you up Saturday at 7 and we go to the new fish place. Do you have a problem with any of that"

The first is very nice but has no sense of leadership. The second way you are leading the entire time but give her the option of saying she's allergic to fish or won't be done with her tennis date till 7:30.

I would go with the former rather than the latter with someone I don't know all that well....I don't want to pick them up...We will take seperate transportation....If I don't know whether they are even free on Saturday night I will allow them to indicate when they are available....And if our discussions haven't even reached the point of when she is available or what are her likes and dislikes when it comes down to something as simple as her tastes in foods....I will allow her the initial latitude in choosing the restaurant....It might make her feel more comfortable and since I have a palate that allows me to eat anything I'm game....Who knows? Maybe she will suggest some spot that's cool and I have never been to.

What would really suck, is I choose the fish place....She doesn't really enjoy seafood but being a good little subby doesn't want to make any waves....So now I have the pleasure of watching her pick at her food...I would probably say, "If you don't like seafood why didn't you say something?"....She might reply, "It seemed that you wanted to take me here, and I wanted to make you happy." To which I would retort, "Wow! You are really dumb."

_____________________________

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 34

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/14/2007 5:31:27 PM

Cipherx

Posts: 18
Joined: 11/19/2006
Status: offline

You likely will not like much of my answer. You have received a lot of "mostly good" comments and/or advice. You can use whicever makes you feel the best or you can look deep inside yourself and see why you are the way you are.

If you truly believe you are right, you wuldn't have to ask what the problem is. You would do your thing and not worry about how it is accepted or regarded.

"To thine own self be true", is much harder than it sounds.

After all of that, I say, unequivically, that if you don't care for what you want before that of anyone else you have been brainwashed by someone. It might be Mama or your religion or society in general but being totally self dentered is something that must be trained out of all of us because it is our first instinct.

I am not saying that we shouldn't be considerate and caring. That is a good thing and it will give us some of the pleasure that we want. Far too often, what people claim they want is not true. I am not saying that they are lying but frequently just don't really know what it is that they do want. The old adage of watching what people do rather than just believing what they say is very apt.

You are on a site where subs and slaves want and need someone to be strong enough to take charge of them. They need to be used and many need to be abused. If that isn't your thing, it is okay. Just don't expect the average sub or slave to appreciate anything but domination. That comes first. You can be as nice as you like with aftercare. Maybe you just aren't cut out to be a Dom/Master. There is nothing wrong with that.

You need to figure out what you want and what you are willing to do to get it. As you have already found out, posting "Why poor sensitive me isn't getting the respect a Dom should have", just isn't working.

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 35

RE: mistaking kindness for weakness - 8/14/2007 5:58:52 PM

Durus

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cipherx

You likely will not like much of my answer. You have received a lot of "mostly good" comments and/or advice. You can use whicever makes you feel the best or you can look deep inside yourself and see why you are the way you are.

If you truly believe you are right, you wuldn't have to ask what the problem is. You would do your thing and not worry about how it is accepted or regarded.

"To thine own self be true", is much harder than it sounds.

After all of that, I say, unequivically, that if you don't care for what you want before that of anyone else you have been brainwashed by someone. It might be Mama or your religion or society in general but being totally self dentered is something that must be trained out of all of us because it is our first instinct.

I am not saying that we shouldn't be considerate and caring. That is a good thing and it will give us some of the pleasure that we want. Far too often, what people claim they want is not true. I am not saying that they are lying but frequently just don't really know what it is that they do want. The old adage of watching what people do rather than just believing what they say is very apt.

You are on a site where subs and slaves want and need someone to be strong enough to take charge of them. They need to be used and many need to be abused. If that isn't your thing, it is okay. Just don't expect the average sub or slave to appreciate anything but domination. That comes first. You can be as nice as you like with aftercare. Maybe you just aren't cut out to be a Dom/Master. There is nothing wrong with that.

You need to figure out what you want and what you are willing to do to get it. As you have already found out, posting "Why poor sensitive me isn't getting the respect a Dom should have", just isn't working.

There is a whole bunch of wisdom right there. Take heed.

< Message edited by Durus -- 8/14/2007 5:59:25 PM >

(in reply to Cipherx)

Post #: 36

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