RE: "Love Reign O'er Me"

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/1/2007 8:43:41 PM

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Heyyyyyy!! I think I saw some of those today! Imagine that.

Gotta love the Old Threshers Reunion. I had not been there since I was a kid. I just have these two short people that have a fascination for all things mechanical, the louder and bigger the better. When I realized the weather was going to be so gorgeous and that I could have the munchkins for a day then it was a date. I am just glad my son (their dad) was willing to go along also.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/1/2007 8:44:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ron

the working end of a cob of corn only needs one b...........

LOL

Well let that "b" me playin' hide the cob with lil' subsusie. She is such a a cob gobbler.

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/1/2007 10:54:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin
I've little empathy for the selfish, it is true.

I've far more empathy for the selfless, who must protect themselves from being treated as doormats by the selfish.

I've certainly got more empathy for the poor souls in the World Trade Center than someone who considers the rescue teams who died to be nothing more than selfish adrenalin junkies.

Dear Bob, I've been following a number of your posts. I am somewhat confused by many of the things you have expressed in your own posts. Please hear me out. You state you have far more empathy for the selfless, who must protect themselves from being as treated as doormats by the selflish. No, problem I totally understand this point of view. I also have read a number of threads now, where you have blocked people. However, I do see where, and you will not perhaps see this, you have managed to block a few people that are and have been selfless in helping others on this site. There are many people that read the boards without posting. Bob, you actually have blocked some people on your preception, or misconception. You keep making remarks about everybody you have blocked as being a Bully. Have you considered that you might be wrong, that not everybody you have blocked is a bully? That you yourself have had very little empathy to seek understanding for others points of views. Just because you feel threaten does not mean you are actually being bullied. In fact Bob, dare I make this statement, I'm almost 1/2 tempted to call you a Bully myself. I'm sorry, if this upsets you my friend. I'm just not seeing your own words match your own actions at times. Yes, I'm confused because you yourself are not being consistent with your own words.

I read some posts by people, who were giving you honest, well thought out responses, however they did not realize they were on block at the time even. Bob, you missed out, and you slammed the door in their face without compassion, empathy or understanding. I see where you have blocked some of the most helpful people on this board, and are calling them Bullies. Yet, you are very judgemental time and time again in your statements that everybody you have blocked is a bully. Have you considered that you may have been wrong? Have you honestly taken time to read the postings of these people, instead of passing quick judgements? It would appear you have very little empathy for people when they are upset with you. You also appear to have little tolerence for humor at times as well. I have been reading your posts bob and your interactions with others here. This is an honest observation that I feel I am making, and not a mindless bully attempt.

< Message edited by Owner4SexSlave -- 9/1/2007 11:03:39 PM >

(in reply to Bobkgin)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 2:02:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

... This is an honest observation that I feel I am making, and not a mindless bully attempt.

No one in my block bag has demonstrated the least bit of selflessness from what I saw of them.

What I saw of them was either an effort to bully, or an effort to be as immature as possible.

I find neither very impressive nor a valuable use of my time.

Good manners and a friendly, helpful disposition are not hard to spot because, quite frankly, such qualities are rare. I've not blocked anyone who exhibited those qualities towards me, nor would I.

I do, however, find it intriguing to hear you claim you know whom I've blocked, yet claim they were not made aware they were blocked. If I didn't announce it, why would you believe they were blocked?

At any rate, you are free to value and read whom you please. I am free to consider some immature based on their behaviour and not waste my time with them.

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 3:24:38 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

People who enter the services do so out of selfishness. They do so to save people, to serve their country - to be exactly what they feel their calling is. To refuse their calling would be the selfless act - but they do so, knowing that losing their life, to save others is an act of their own choosing. Above their family. Above their friends.
This is a selfless act - as defined.

i don't agree with your logic, or lack thereof, in your statement above. If i am following your train of thought correctly are you saying that if someone gets even a smidgen of satisfaction out of an action, then it totally negates the possibility of that action being selfless?

Better that i ask, if you won't mind answering, what constitutes a selfless act - can you give examples? Using the logic you outlined, i don't believe you think any actions can ever be selfless, but i could be wrong so i ask you to for an example or two.

I would hope to keep the discussion polite if possible - and you are right, I do not believe in selfless acts.
Selfless acts would be acts are a beautiful concept but in my world they do not exist.
That doesn't mean that people do not give. However, selflessness is a trait that can never be proved - like the concept of God. If a firefighter rescues (for discussion as it is brought up here) enters the world trade centre, they do so in the hope that they can achieve something - whether that is order or saving a life. But it is a conscious decision. And - usually (unless the person is an orphan or estranged) they will have familly, friends etc who they negate over their decision to enter that building by free choice.
They are wonderous people. They are beautiful and - I choose not to say brave as the fire fighters who I know have always insisted that they are not - so I choose to honour their decision.
But they are not selfless. Selflessness is the complete opposite to selfishness as black is to white - and there are very few words that can make that 'claim'. If a person in such a case has the tiniest amount of selflishness within them, they cannot be selfless.

So in my little world, where selflessness does not exists, I see the wonder in peoples flaws. I don;t always understand them, but I do see their individual nature. In that way, when I inadvertantly judge someone based on a preconceived idea I may have picked up along my journey, I can step back and admit I was wrong when I get to know someone. So often, people take a word and only see it's negative side. People use words as weapons - to try and attack and demean someone. If you see the good in something, that far outweighs the bad. So seeing the word 'selfish' as an ugly or sad word does it no justice at all. I am selfish. I would be so for my children (using another post you made as an example kind of) - I would die for them. I would die for Darcy - my Master if the situation called for it. Those are not selfless. Those are selfish. But in different ways, they are all positive.

Yes that is my belief. Selflessness is an ideal. And in my logic, it is no different to the god that cannot be proven to another when felt by someone else.

Peace
the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 3:28:25 AM

RCdc

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quote:

So those who advocate selfishness are saying we should be "without regard for others ... in disregard of others".

Doesn't sound like a very responsible position for a master or a dom to take.

And what about the firefighter? Does not 'sound' like a very 'responsible' position for a father or son or mother or daughter or lover or master or mistress to be, does it?
But they exist - thank the godz.

Peace
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 9/2/2007 3:29:00 AM >

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 3:32:33 AM

RCdc

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Just on an aside - I am wondering (on the chimp/animal front) if people are mixing up self awareness with sentience?

Peace
the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 3:36:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
Hmmmmmm... then how did they teach those chimps sign language and when they showed them a mirror the chimps signed the word me?

Training an organism to repeat repetitive actions is no evidence of self awareness. If you'd trained it to sign the word me after showing a picture of a donkey it would do it.

But that is not what occured. The behaviorist signed to the chimp - who is that, and then pointed in the mirror, the chimp looking at the reflection signed the sign for me. It also used the sign in simple sentences when needing something - like me eat orange.

Self awareness is different. In this test did the person carrying it out point to another chimp and ask the same question? I still don’t see how this is not teaching repetitive tasks unless you think the chimp did this after one go. Self awareness is not about understanding language either its solely being able to recognise you exist as a unique individual. The common test is as I described the chimp should look in a mirror and if something is a miss with his reflection he should try to rectify it.

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 4:02:59 AM

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I would also add that rectifying your image should involve no training at all beyond what the chimp is able to learn itself. Humans are not born with self awareness either it’s something they acquire as they slowly take in their surroundings. It’s easy to distinguish between children that have developed self-awareness and those that have not yet.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 9/2/2007 4:08:47 AM >

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 4:11:12 AM

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They did show self awareness by signing one sign for me and other signs for the names of other chimps. In fact when conducting a memory tests on two chimps where they had to push the right button for the sign being given one chimp was exceptionally intelligent, when the behaviorist signed - whats wrong with xxxx, the chimps signed back the word stupid lol! Also when looking in the mirror the chimp would adjust hats on their heads. The chimps also expressed emotions - like signing - me sad want doll. Very interesting stuff - google Washoe and Nin - but elephants are also self aware - take a peek at this: http://www.livescience.com/animals/061030_elephant_mirror.html

< Message edited by velvetears -- 9/2/2007 4:20:24 AM >

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 4:18:30 AM

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Is it the nametags of the other chimps they recognise or the chimps themselves? I’m not going to dispute chimps have a good ability to learn things but this alone does not satisfy the criteria for self-awareness.

The only fair test for me would be wild animals doing what you describe after no training what so ever.

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 4:25:07 AM

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I have a pet rock. Is he (yes, the rock is male) self aware and does he love me?
I take really good care of him except when I take him for a walk. He tends to bounce along at the end of the leash and always complains of a headache by time we get home. He really only likes to go for a walk at the lake. He mutters something about how nice it is to skip along the top of the water. Sadly though, he can't swim and tends to sink kinda like....a rock.

Sarcasm on a Sunday morning is so much better than church. How did chimps become part of this debate?

< Message edited by Aileen68 -- 9/2/2007 4:28:33 AM >

(in reply to FullCircle)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 4:31:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

I have a pet rock. Is he (yes, the rock is male) self aware and does he love me?
I take really good care of him except when I take him for a walk. He tends to bounce along at the end of the leash and always complains of a headache by time we get home. He really only likes to go for a walk at the lake. He mutters something about how nice it is to skip along the top of the water. Sadly though, he can't swim and tends to sink kinda like....a rock.

Sarcasm on a Sunday morning is so much better than church. How did chimps become part of this debate?

You made that pet rock sound so cute I want one myself now. I felt sorry for it when it complained of having a headache. Rock Personification.

God I’m sad.

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 4:32:09 AM

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Oh and a bit of info...rival groups of chimps will fight to the death and eat the dead of their enemies.

(in reply to Aileen68)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 4:40:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I would hope to keep the discussion polite if possible - and you are right, I do not believe in selfless acts.
Selfless acts would be acts are a beautiful concept but in my world they do not exist.......

i think i have been polite, do you think i haven't because i have disagreed with you?

At any rate let me pose to you a little story - a woman is on her way to work, a mundane day of traveling and the usual traffic except this day it is slower then usual with cars going at a crawls pace. Worried about being late the woman keeps looking at the time and wondering what has happened up ahead. Finally cars start to dribble by one at a time and as she nears the front line to be let by she notices a big car and an old woman walking back and forth around her car, realizing their was an accident she realizes what was holding up the traffic all this time. A few cars dribble past and as this woman waited her turn she noticed odd behavior coming from the old woman, she watched her carefully wondering what she was doing when all of a sudden it was apparent this old lady was going to climb over a guard rail. Realizing this, this woman slammed her vehicle into park, ran over to the guard rail which the old lady was half across, went over it herself, ended up in the left lane of the opposite side traffic grabbing this old lady so she would not be hit by a car in her dazed condition from the accident. Horns blasted as she could feel the air from passing cars nearly graze her back. By that time, others were there to help these two woman back over the guard rail. She told the others that the old lady was in shock from some head trauma, obvious because her head was gushing some blood and that they should get her to the other side where there was grass, lay her down with her feet elevated and put a blanket on her till an ambulance came. This woman went back to her car and continued on to work, albeit a bit shaken from the ordeal, but still worried she would be late. What would you call this? It wasn't planned, there was no forthought, just immediate reaction to a danger that was present and an action to save a life. In case your wondering this isn't a made up story, it happened to me on the way to work one day. When i got home from work that day, i cried my eyes out realizing i could have been killed and my children would have lost their mother. Maybe that makes me selfish - maybe you will say the selfless thing to do would be to witness another human being being run down by parkway traffic because to risk my life to save an old lady, being that i had children, was selfish - but guess what, that thought process never had a chance to even enter my mind, there wasn't time. i had to act and act fast or this woman would have been road kill.

i do understand what you are sayin though about selfishness not necessarily being a bad thing, and i agree with you - it's necessary to be selfish sometimes in life, people cannot be selfless 100% of the time. i see nothing wrong with trying to be selfless in a relationship though - if both partners worked on that ideal the relationship would be one of nurturance and security, and just a beautiful way to express each others love. Will they reach 100% total selflessness all the time - no, but it's a hell of an ideal to strive for in my book :-)

< Message edited by velvetears -- 9/2/2007 4:48:46 AM >

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 4:52:28 AM

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Talking from my own perspective I didn’t say being selfless was not something to admire. I simply stated it doesn’t exist and we all have our own reasons for doing things. You got out of your car and helped most likely because you realised someone you know or yourself could have been in her position needing help. So you acted in a way you would expect others to act in your time of need. If you had been selfless then you wouldn’t have put yourself in her position in the first place when considering what to do. Maybe it’s just the word selfless I don’t like because it seems inaccurate to describe any human that way. Maybe it’s semantics I don’t know.

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 4:56:23 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

The only fair test for me would be wild animals doing what you describe after no training what so ever.

Well the chimps who were taught sign language (i think one got up to using 250 words), their baby chimps were able to learn these signs and communicate, without any aid from the behaviorists. They observed their mothers and learned much like human children do when observing humans to learn language.

Aileen grow up, your actions really are tiresome, your attempts at ridicule and sarcasm are getting old. It's obvious you have a disdain for me so i suggest you find a new hobby - heck try some self awareness - might actually do you some good.

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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 5:02:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

I would hope to keep the discussion polite if possible - and you are right, I do not believe in selfless acts.
Selfless acts would be acts are a beautiful concept but in my world they do not exist.......

...

i do understand what you are sayin though about selfishness not necessarily being a bad thing, and i agree with you - it's necessary to be selfish sometimes in life, people cannot be selfless 100% of the time. i see nothing wrong with trying to be selfless in a relationship though - if both partners worked on that ideal the relationship would be one of nurturance and security, and just a beautiful way to express each others love. Will they reach 100% total selflessness all the time - no, but it's a hell of an ideal to strive for in my book :-)

Selfishness is concern for one's own desires without regard for anyone else.

It is no different than the child running around declaring everything is "mine mine mine!"

Selflessness takes into account the needs of others.

Selfishness is about exploiting another person to get what you want.

Selflessness is about being thoughtful and considerate towards others, and helping them get what they want.

I am not in the least surprised those who advocate selfishness refuse to believe selflessness exists. I'd be more surprised if they admitted there was a virtue they lacked. Much easier on their egos to deny the existence of selflessness altogether.

But selflessness doesn't disappear just to make the egos of the selfish feel better about being selfish, nor does it disappear to make it easier for the selfish to justify exploiting whomever they can lure in.

Thieves believe everyone steals.

Liars believe everyone lies.

The selfish believe everyone is selfish.

Only those who do not steal, do not lie, and are not selfish can see that others like them exist.

Those who steal, who lie, who are selfish simply cannot conceive of anyone accomplishing something they have failed to accomplish.

That is the role ego plays in their lives: no one can be better than the thief, the liar, the selfish.

Fortunately, their egos do not change reality one whit.

< Message edited by Bobkgin -- 9/2/2007 5:04:02 AM >

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 5:05:12 AM

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Actually velvet I was bantering back and forth with FC. It wasn't in reply to anything you said at all. I have no feelings either way towards you. Perhaps you should follow your own advice and grow up and maybe get a sense of humor also. That might do you some good.

edited to add...I really am curious as to why chimps are being debated. It has no bearing whatsoever on human interactions.

< Message edited by Aileen68 -- 9/2/2007 5:08:53 AM >

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 5:26:52 AM

RCdc

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quote:

i think i have been polite, do you think i haven't because i have disagreed with you?

No Velvet. If I believed you to be impolite, I would say directly for example - when Bob quoted -

quote:

Chimps (being apes) have more brains than monkeys.

You responded -

quote:

And probably more then some people here on CM

Said in jest, and with a smile - but still impolite - and no different to those you had previously condemed for being unkind or cliquey.

I do not see myself any better than anyone else, sometimes I know my posts seem to others condecending, but then, one does not know my voice, cannot hear inflection, nor see gestures - no biggie. I see that you are my equal. I see Aileen as my equal. Therefore - by process of elimination - we are all no better than each other. We all banter and press buttons. We all are in cliques, like it or not. That clique to you, are your friends or the ones we agree with. The ones that agree with us.
And that pressing buttons, makes us selfish. And in our selfishness, we live and strive and be.

Not every word someone writes has a hidden agenda I simply wrote straight from my head, that I my hope is to have a polite discussion.
But I digress.

Your little story is one of selfishness. Forethough or none at all - the act was selfish - plain and simple. Honourable, admirable - and selfish.

And yes, I agree - wishing to attain perfection or wanting to be selfless is no bad thing. But when one sees oneself as selfless or perfect, that in itself is already flawed by ones own ego.

Peace
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 9/2/2007 5:28:04 AM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to velvetears)

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