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RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 9:51:07 AM

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Then perhaps you should not be critical and judgemental of other's "humour".............

Or, just keep digging and give others something to laugh at, either way it's entertaining.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 9:53:42 AM

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quote:

I am more willing to damage myself than damage those I love, or those for whom I feel responsible.

Why? I just do not get this. Is there no responsibilty for yourself?
For example, let's say that I had a Master for say ten years. We love each other, we have discussed things, communication is great and always has been. People change, (I know I have changed and developed over the years what used to be hard limits no longer exsist my ideals changed) and Master comes to me and says, 'I know that we have discussed this before but I seriously would enjoy taking on another submissive. I know that you do not want poly and never have but this is something I really need.' So it can go two ways. He can give up his new found desire to have a submissive because I do not want it or I can agree to it. Let's say I agree. But am not completely keen on the idea. So after a lengthy search, we find a submissive sister who works. He loves her he loves me. She and I get along. There is no competion---it is all ideal BUT, I still dislike the idea of it all. I do not like sharing the kitchen with another, I do not like sharing his bed with another, I liked it the way it was before. Emotionally for me it is taking it's toll, but I bare it to please and serve him. He knows that it is taking it's toll on me and he can not bare to hurt either of us. If I choose to leave, he will be heart broken. If she leaves he will be equally heart broken. So I am left to make the decision. If I stay, I will emotionally break down and cause damage to myself (the worst kind of damage imo.) If I leave, I will damage his heart. In this case who means more to me. Him or me. What is most important, his well being or mine. Mine hands down. Because if I stay and become an emotional basket case what the hell good will I be to anyone.

< Message edited by Squeakers -- 9/2/2007 9:57:00 AM >

(in reply to Bobkgin)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 9:55:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Then perhaps you should not be critical and judgemental of other's "humour".............

Or, just keep digging and give others something to laugh at, either way it's entertaining.

Take your own advice, and i really don't give a rats ass what you find entertaining, that fact you have to let me know speaks to your passive agressive tactics... really you can do better then that

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 9:59:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

quote:

I am more willing to damage myself than damage those I love, or those for whom I feel responsible.
Why? I just do not get this. Is there no responsibilty for yourself?
For example, let's say that I had a Master for say ten years. We love each other, we have discussed things, communication is great and always has been. People change, (I know I have changed and developed over the years what used to be hard limits no longer exsist my ideals changed) and Master comes to me and says, 'I know that we have discussed this before but I seriously would enjoy taking on another submissive. I know that you do not want poly and never have but this is something I really need.' So it can go two ways. He can give up his new found desire to have a submissive because I do not want it or I can agree to it. Let's say I agree. But am not completely keen on the idea. So after a lengthy search, we find a submissive sister who works. He loves her he loves me. She and I get along. There is no competion---it is all ideal BUT, I still dislike the idea of it all. I do not like sharing the kitchen with another, I do not like sharing his bed with another, I liked it the way it was before. Emotionally for me it is taking it's toll, but I bare it to please and serve him. He knows that it is taking it's toll on me and he can not bare to hurt either of us. If I choose to leave, he will be heart broken. If she leaves he will be equally heart broken. So I am left to make the decision. If I stay, I will emotionally break down and cause damage to myself (the worst kind of damage imo.) If I leave, I will damage his heart. In this case who means more to me. Him or me. What is most important, his well being or mine. Mine hands down. Because if I stay and become an emotional basket case what the hell good will I be to anyone.

Excellent example Squeakers..... no easy solution there - staying or leaving could be seen as selfless - asking one slave to leave or one slave accept can be seen as selfish. Will be interesting to see the response to this question - kudos for thinking if a great example :-)

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Squeakers)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:10:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

From the OP on I've said this is my paradigm.

If others wish to follow it, learn from it, whatever, that is up to them.

Or you will be blocked.....I've heard that being blocked is the new black of Fall '07

quote:

Bobbyboy
I view the selfless paradigm as better than the selfish paradigm. If I thought the selfish paradigm was better, I'd have picked it.

Bullshit!!....You are selfish, you are not looking for a soulmate...You are looking for Two...Nothing wrong with that..But it does rather contrast to the selfless imagery of good ol' Bob...You are a four-flusher...A charlatan...Honesty does not appear to be your strong point. You like the notion of portraying yourself with being within the selfless paradigm. it is a fraud.

quote:

Bob of the North
But for me, the selfless paradigm is far more beneficial for all involved. A self-sustaining harmony of opposites.

I think the selfish paradigm is unsustainable: it is always in need of fresh, gullible, meat.

And yet here you sit looking for "two new pieces of meat"....A harmony of opposites...My ass.

quote:

Robert DeHero
But I assert no control, nor desire for control, over what others choose.

I'm not saying anything new to those I seek. They would already know all this in their hearts if not also in their minds.

I'm simply telling those I seek that I know it too.

Those arguing in favour of selfishness are welcome to attract as many to their way of thinking as they can. Bothers me not at all.

Those who are swayed by their arguments will not include those I seek.

For some, seeking a mate is about going through enough numbers of people to finally find someone who says "yes". It's like a slot machine.

But for me it is a matter of finding those pieces of the puzzle that fit me.

I don't seek the attention of hundreds, just the two that I seek.

What you are looking for is someone who will say "yes" to your absurd claims and self righteous attitude....Rather lumps you in with the masses that you so vigilantly try and separate yourself from...Pathetic!

quote:

Bob
And for all I know, they are not here nor ever will be here.

But Love is like a magnet, drawing together those who match.

As I believe in Love, so I believe Love will find a way.

Patience is all I need.

Patience, chloroform, GHB and a "slave" who has serious mental defficencies...You should be all set...Can you imagine being with a "selfless" Dom? Wouldn't that just suck ass?

Slave: Domiguy, do you want a blow job?

Domiguy: I dunno? Do you feel like you would be a better person if you gave me one?....I only want to make you happy.

Slave: I do have kind of a stomach ache...And you know that if I blow you too long that my TMJ really starts to flare up.

Domiguy: Well then, Punkin', why don't you just put up your feet and let me eat you out for the next hour or two.

Slave: Wow! that sounds fantastic...Could you get me a bowl of ice cream, while you are up? I have never met a Dom who was so selfless and still such a humongous pussy...I love you Domiguy. Rub my feet.

Domiguy: Anything for you...After all, I'm the Dom.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 9/2/2007 10:11:33 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Bobkgin)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:11:35 AM

Posts: 1335
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

quote:

I am more willing to damage myself than damage those I love, or those for whom I feel responsible.

Why? I just do not get this. Is there no responsibilty for yourself?

Of course there is. This is me taking responsibility for myself.

Situation: I and my family are in danger, what do I do?
Solution: I minimize the risks to my family, even if that means accepting greater risk to myself.

quote:

For example, let's say that I had a Master for say ten years. We love each other, we have discussed things, communication is great and always has been. People change, (I know I have changed and developed over the years what used to be hard limits no longer exsist my ideals changed) and Master comes to me and says, 'I know that we have discussed this before but I seriously would enjoy taking on another submissive. I know that you do not want poly and never have but this is something I really need.' So it can go two ways. He can give up his new found desire to have a submissive because I do not want it or I can agree to it.

You are overlooking the third option: you can refuse.

A selfless relationship should not be entered lightly, precisely for this reason.

Both should clearly understand the limits of the relationship.

Either one stepping beyond those limits is a breach of trust. The harmony is broken.

If both master and slave truly want to exceed established limits, it is done my unanimous agreement.

Your reluctance should have prevented your master from pursuing poly, assuming he was proposing going beyond an established limit.

Only whole-hearted, enthusiastic agreement would qualify as "agreement" with me (assuming I'd ever want to go past my limits).

quote:

Let's say I agree. But am not completely keen on the idea. So after a lengthy search, we find a submissive sister who works. He loves her he loves me. She and I get along. There is no competion---it is all ideal BUT, I still dislike the idea of it all. I do not like sharing the kitchen with another, I do not like sharing his bed with another, I liked it the way it was before before. Emotionally for me it is taking it's toll, but I bare it to please and serve him. He knows that it is taking it's toll on me and he can not bare to hurt either of us. If I choose to leave, he will be heart broken. If she leaves he will be equally heart broken. So I am left to make the decision. If I stay, I will emotionally break down and cause damage to myself (the worst kind of damage imo.) If I leave, I will damage his heart. In this case who means more to me. Him or me. What is most important, his well being or mine. Mine hands down. Because if I stay and become an emotional basket case what the hell good will I be to anyone.

And so it goes with a master who is not being as selfless as you.

Were he being selfless also, he'd not have taken you down this path. At least, not until your enthusiasm for it was a match for his own.

Being selfless does not mean being dishonest. You should never lie to make someone happy.

Being selfless means being true to yourself, and giving all you are to another.

But for the relationship to last, the other should be as selfless as you. Otherwise it is a constant drain until you have to run.

< Message edited by Bobkgin -- 9/2/2007 10:13:53 AM >

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to Squeakers)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:13:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

People do apparently selfless acts no one is selfless

i agree no one can ALWAYS be selfless, but can achieve many selfless acts in their lifetime - there are degrees of selflesness. But if you were in a relationship with someone else who was selfless (tried their best to be) you wouldn't always have to be selfless - i think that's the essence of what Bob has been trying to say - could be wrong, but thats how i interpret him.

When you have um's you really have to be selfless - you have to deny yourself lots of things like sleep, going out whenever you want, thinngs you might want to purchase (if money is an issue), you have to constantly take care of the needs of your infant/toddler/child till they grow up (hopefully thats not at 32 lol) but i think you get my point. Yes you get the reward of having a child, but i don't think the benefit of having the child negates the things you did and makes it all a selfish act, just because you got a benefit of having a child. Try being selfish and having um's - you will either have CPS at your door or you will have raised a misfit who will run into all kinds of probels as an adult.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to FullCircle)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:15:48 AM

WinsomeDefiance

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyntilating

I would call it compassion, sensativity and greathearted..

In a word: selfless.

Hi bob,
I know myself to be a compassionate, sensitive and greathearted woman but never without thought to my own well being. By your definition, this makes me a selfish person. I know many people in my life who would argue any attempt to call me a selfish woman. On the same hand, not a one of them would call me selfless.

I offer you an example from my own life. My home is known as the resident shelter for homeless boys. I don't have much to offer them, but a couch and a blanket and food for their stomach and/or a hot shower. They come, they go. Sometimes they say thank you, most often they don't. I am NOT a selfless woman, because I don't do this totally disregarding my own well being for the sake of the homeless kids. Does this make me a selfish woman?

I keep seeing your base logic as:

If you aren't selfless, you are selfish.

It is a narrow banded thinking that only works within the parameter of your logic. As long as you never introduce situations where there are no absolutes, your logic is sound. Which is what makes your logic inherently flawed. When your mind is so rigidly programmed, there is no room for conflicting data. I see this as the reason this thread keeps looping over and over.

Maybe it wouldn't hurt for you to dump the bad programming and rethink your logic? I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm just not grasping this whole mess of rationale.

Its just a thought. I always tell people who read my posts, to take what they can use and leave the rest.

Charlotte

(in reply to Bobkgin)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:16:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
i agree shyinini, but i suspect popularity and friendship rather then free thinking has a lot to do with it.

I think this is another example of you being impolite on this thread. But I guess it is okay to be passively impolite rather than directly impolite?

Knight's Kyra

it's my honest assessment - not intended to be rude but i do feel this is how it works here at times - not always - just when theres a target for the group. And no one was rude to bob - or me ?(look to your own masters post to me for an example) - interesting you join a thread after 200 some odd posts and this is the only thing you can add.

LMAO

Do you feel better now that you have engaged in the very thing that you are so critical of others for?

LOL

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:17:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Then perhaps you should not be critical and judgemental of other's "humour".............

Or, just keep digging and give others something to laugh at, either way it's entertaining.

Take your own advice, and i really don't give a rats ass what you find entertaining, that fact you have to let me know speaks to your passive agressive tactics... really you can do better then that

Well, I could......... speak bluntly and open up both barrels. However, I doubt you could handle a full frontal and I am more than certain you would go running off to the powers that be. Which would not serve my entertainment value at all. Not to mention, it would be way too quick and easy for me.....I prefer to watch you dig your own holes and toss flowers and lime to cut down on the stench.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 9/2/2007 10:21:56 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:18:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

People do apparently selfless acts no one is selfless

i agree no one can ALWAYS be selfless, but can achieve many selfless acts in their lifetime - there are degrees of selflesness. But if you were in a relationship with someone else who was selfless (tried their best to be) you wouldn't always have to be selfless - i think that's the essence of what Bob has been trying to say - could be wrong, but thats how i interpret him.

When you have um's you really have to be selfless - you have to deny yourself lots of things like sleep, going out whenever you want, thinngs you might want to purchase (if money is an issue), you have to constantly take care of the needs of your infant/toddler/child till they grow up (hopefully thats not at 32 lol) but i think you get my point. Yes you get the reward of having a child, but i don't think the benefit of having the child negates the things you did and makes it all a selfish act, just because you got a benefit of having a child. Try being selfish and having um's - you will either have CPS at your door or you will have raised a misfit who will run into all kinds of probels as an adult.

Another load of crap....You have to be firm, you have to be consistent, you have to make some sacrifices. That is what it takes to raise a decent child...They don't control you...You are the boss. You are not their friend you are their parent...Huge difference.

If you are single you are still entitled to a life...They come second in some respects...If you coddle a child, make them (children) the center of your universe...You will wind up unhappy and produce a worthless adult.

_____________________________

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:21:42 AM

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From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

Do you feel better now that you have engaged in the very thing that you are so critical of others for?

She does this all of the time. She is completely blind to her actions.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:22:05 AM

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From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

People do apparently selfless acts no one is selfless

i agree no one can ALWAYS be selfless, ...

Velvet,

They are confusing self-denial for selfless.

Selfish focuses on the self
Selfless focuses on both self and others.
Self-denial focuses only on others.

They've set up a straw man definition for "selfless", borrowing from an extreme definition for "self-denial", and claiming no one can match the definition they've borrowed thus no one can be "selfless".

It is not impossible to focus on both self and others all the time.

It is just not a very easy accomplishment to achieve.

On edit for Charlotte:
Just read your post. I think this will help answer your concern. You might also look at my more recent posts (starting page 14 or 15, I think) where I address that issue.

Yes, I'd call you selfless. You are balancing your needs against those of others, taking both into account.

On 2nd edit: Note this is real-world selflessness we're talking about right now.

In a selfless master-slave relationship, the selfless slave is trusting in her master to provide what she needs, and a selfless master is trusting his slave to comply with his intstructions that he might get what he needs.

< Message edited by Bobkgin -- 9/2/2007 10:33:38 AM >

_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:24:17 AM

Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

Situation: I and my family are in danger, what do I do?
Solution: I minimize the risks to my family, even if that means accepting greater risk to myself.

Grand

I'd have obviously chosen option B: kill the family because they are going to get you killed and are a liability

I can see selflessness being a new buzz word soon.

Is anything being said here that isn’t common sense?

_____________________________

∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to Bobkgin)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:25:54 AM

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Then perhaps you should not be critical and judgemental of other's "humour".............

Or, just keep digging and give others something to laugh at, either way it's entertaining.

Take your own advice, and i really don't give a rats ass what you find entertaining, that fact you have to let me know speaks to your passive agressive tactics... really you can do better then that

Well, I could......... speak bluntly and open up both barrels. However, I doubt you could handle a full frontal and I am more than certain you would go running off to the powers that be. Which would not serve my entertainment value at all. Not to mention, it would be way too quick and easy for me.....I prefer to watch you dig your own holes and toss flowers and lime to cut down on the stench.

You keep thinking i really care lol..... waste your time if you want
because nothing you say has any meaning to me. Big tough midwest lady threatening me with both barrels *shakes* Ohhhh myyyy i better hide. Why don't you do something productive with your time instead of trying to goad me. Oh but then where would the "entertainment" be in that?

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to LaTigresse)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:29:56 AM

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Do you feel better now that you have engaged in the very thing that you are so critical of others for?

She does this all of the time. She is completely blind to her actions.

Well KL true to form as you are with your two liners that add nothing but jabs - i have yet to read anything that gives me any insight into who you are as a person - all i see is someone who gets off on jabbing other posters. Well go at it.... just hope you realize how it makes you look.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:30:16 AM

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Do you feel better now that you have engaged in the very thing that you are so critical of others for?

She does this all of the time. She is completely blind to her actions.

I have noticed and generally keep my thoughts to myself about it, but I was in a sharing mood today *g*

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:34:02 AM

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

People do apparently selfless acts no one is selfless

i agree no one can ALWAYS be selfless, but can achieve many selfless acts in their lifetime - there are degrees of selflesness. But if you were in a relationship with someone else who was selfless (tried their best to be) you wouldn't always have to be selfless - i think that's the essence of what Bob has been trying to say - could be wrong, but thats how i interpret him.

When you have um's you really have to be selfless - you have to deny yourself lots of things like sleep, going out whenever you want, thinngs you might want to purchase (if money is an issue), you have to constantly take care of the needs of your infant/toddler/child till they grow up (hopefully thats not at 32 lol) but i think you get my point. Yes you get the reward of having a child, but i don't think the benefit of having the child negates the things you did and makes it all a selfish act, just because you got a benefit of having a child. Try being selfish and having um's - you will either have CPS at your door or you will have raised a misfit who will run into all kinds of probels as an adult.

Another load of crap....You have to be firm, you have to be consistent, you have to make some sacrifices. That is what it takes to raise a decent child...They don't control you...You are the boss. You are not their friend you are their parent...Huge difference.

If you are single you are still entitled to a life...They come second in some respects...If you coddle a child, make them (children) the center of your universe...You will wind up unhappy and produce a worthless adult.

Never in my post did i negate anything you said - i agree with you. Am i expected to cover every base of parenting in one post that focused on the topic at hand "selfless"? If you have read me throughout this thread i have said there has to be balance.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:38:57 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

They are confusing self-denial for selfless.

Selfish focuses on the self
Selfless focuses on both self and others.
Self-denial focuses only on others.

i hope this clears up a lot of misinterpretation about the use of the term selfless and how it was intended/implied.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Bobkgin)

RE: "Love Reign O'er Me" - 9/2/2007 10:42:36 AM

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

I was in a sharing mood today *g*

It's all good.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to kyraofMists)

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