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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:03:31 PM   
RRafe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

i'm sure LA will be able to share the thread with us all, however.....Does anyone else remember the case of the couple who were using "gun play" and the gun accidently went off.. One of them was dead and the other was going to jail or something... Seems too high risk for me, but eh..That's just me..
kalista


Check back at the start of the thread.  There's a link to the particular news item to which I believe you refer.



Have you people ever heard of "risk management"?


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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:06:03 PM   
MrDiscipline44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

There is no "safe" way to play with guns.  No matter what precautions you take, in the end you are always gambling that a) there is no round in the chamber; and b) that the round will not discharge.  And if you gamble and lose, somebody is likely to die--not get hurt, not bleed a little, but die. 

That is not an exaggeration; that is the reality of firearms.
Oh bullshit!! You are exagerating and you know it. Either that or you don't deal with guns on a real and/or regular basis. I have dealt with guns ranging from a 9mm Berreta upto a 30mm chaingun. They can be made "safe" enough to let a novice handle. You just have to be competent enough to ensure that. I know I am. Thats why I stated taking out the firing pin (if it has one) and using DUMMY rounds. If you really think that a gun will go off with both a removed FP and dummy rounds in it then thats your stupidity. Don't project it on anyone else. And what of a replica? Do you think a replica will kill someone too? Come on, man. Grow some balls.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:06:56 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Have you people ever heard of "risk management"?


I have, indeed.  It's a major part of my consulting practice, in fact. 


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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:07:52 PM   
RRafe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Have you people ever heard of "risk management"?


I have, indeed.  It's a major part of my consulting practice, in fact. 



Then why do you totally ignore it in this thread?

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:08:49 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Then why do you totally ignore it in this thread?


I don't.


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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:10:34 PM   
RRafe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Then why do you totally ignore it in this thread?


I don't.



Good, care to restate then?

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:19:02 PM   
MrDiscipline44


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Status: offline 		leatherette,

Handguns and rifles don't have a "kick" to them if they are not loaded with live or blank rounds. The kick comes from the discharge of the round and/or the explosive gas that is used to eject the cartridge. Just wanted to clear up that misnomer.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:22:22 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		In the Marines, I qualified expert with the M16A2, Beretta 9mm, and the Colt .45 1911 ACP.  Working as an armed security guard in college I carried a .357 Magnum revolver (Colt Trooper Mark IV).  I know how to use firearms quite well, and am quite capable of using them for effect.

I have seen ostensibly well-maintained firearms discharge even when the hammer wasn't cocked.    (no, not mine, just in case you were wondering)

I have also seen what a .44 Magnum round does to the human head.  It's not pretty.

Gun horseplay with blanks has killed more than one individual--actors Jon-Erik Hexum and Brandon Lee are tragic real-life examples of this.

Gun accidents when the gun was "supposed" to be empty claim lives on an almost daily basis.  "Dummy" rounds strike me as just as dangerous as an "empty" firearm.

I stand by my original statement.  If it can fire, it's dangerous and not meant to be used as a toy.

< Message edited by celticlord2112 -- 9/25/2007 4:25:28 PM >

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:24:03 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Good, care to restate then?


Nope.


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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:25:27 PM   
RRafe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

leatherette,

Handguns and rifles don't have a "kick" to them if they are not loaded with live or blank rounds. The kick comes from the discharge of the round and/or the explosive gas that is used to eject the cartridge. Just wanted to clear up that misnomer.


And let's clear up another misnomer from this thread too.
A demilled gun is one hell of a lot safer in a fear play scene than a sharp knife.  If you have someone flinch or freak out when running a knife up the side of the jugular-a person can bleed out in less than two minutes-and not much you can do is gonna save them.

THINK about what can go wrong-and try to make the bad things NOT happen. In ADVANCE. If you cannot think and prepare for that-then DON'T.

Gods,,,,I should NOT be having to say this kind of shit.


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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:26:42 PM   
RRafe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Good, care to restate then?


Nope.



One last question then-did you learn anything here?

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:31:58 PM   
onmykneesb4Him


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

Any one with any experience or advice? Beyond the obvious,please, I am well aware that this is very RACK play.


Do not use a real firearm.  If it can fire...it's dangerous.  It may be obvious, but it should still be said.  Guns are not toys, and they are not for "playing".

This is one of those cases where consent doesn't mean a damn thing.  If that weapon goes off and somebody gets hurt or perchance dies, you're going to jail. 

And deservedly so.



i have to agree with this.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:32:11 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Have you people ever heard of "risk management"?



Yes, and it does not refer to taking risks, and 'managing' to luck out of consequences.


If you want to use a gun as a toy, get a toy gun.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 9/25/2007 4:33:11 PM >

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:35:55 PM   
VadFarkas


Posts: 923
Joined: 6/7/2007
Status: offline 		I have indulged in "Gun Play" for over 12 years now...but we call it Cowboy Action Shooting.http://www.sassnet.com/

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:37:04 PM   
RRafe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Have you people ever heard of "risk management"?



Yes, and it does not refer to taking risks, and 'managing' to luck out of consequences.


If you want to use a gun as a toy, get a toy gun.


Or you can make a real one into a toy-same difference.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:37:29 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

And let's clear up another misnomer from this thread too.
A demilled gun is one hell of a lot safer in a fear play scene than a sharp knife. If you have someone flinch or freak out when running a knife up the side of the jugular-a person can bleed out in less than two minutes-and not much you can do is gonna save them.


Back to my original statement.

quote:


If it can fire...it's dangerous.


A "demilled" gun by definition cannot fire or be made to fire. 


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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:39:22 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

Oh bullshit!! You are exagerating and you know it. Either that or you don't deal with guns on a real and/or regular basis. I have dealt with guns ranging from a 9mm Berreta upto a 30mm chaingun. They can be made "safe" enough to let a novice handle. You just have to be competent enough to ensure that. I know I am. Thats why I stated taking out the firing pin (if it has one) and using DUMMY rounds. If you really think that a gun will go off with both a removed FP and dummy rounds in it then thats your stupidity. Don't project it on anyone else. And what of a replica? Do you think a replica will kill someone too? Come on, man. Grow some balls.


And how did you like Brandon Lee's movie that just came out this year?

Oh wait a minute, there was't one, was there?....cuz another 'expert' like you made his gun 'safe'.

Inert rounds and inactive guns have an unfortunate tendency to look exactly like, and get mixed up with, the real thing. Accidents can happen... when they happen with guns, they are sometimes called 'negligent homicide'.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 9/25/2007 4:40:09 PM >

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:39:52 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

And let's clear up another misnomer from this thread too.
A demilled gun is one hell of a lot safer in a fear play scene than a sharp knife. If you have someone flinch or freak out when running a knife up the side of the jugular-a person can bleed out in less than two minutes-and not much you can do is gonna save them.


Back to my original statement.

quote:


If it can fire...it's dangerous.


A "demilled" gun by definition cannot fire or be made to fire. 



Sighs.........or you can demill the ammo. Do you understand that the danger is the appeal of the edge play? And that some CAN do it safely? I'm not trying to minimize the danger of firearms-it's people who kill-not guns.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:39:59 PM   
AquaticSub


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I'm a big fan of "your kink isn't my kink and my kink isn't your kink". I hope that the regular readers would know this. But I'm also a fan of "Not every fantasy can come true and not every fantasy should come true". Can anyone say, with any sort of authority, which should and should not come true? No, I don't think anyone can. Certainly not me.

But it when it comes to guns, I don't think it's closed minded at all to say "It's not a toy. Don't play with it." We were asked for advice, we gave it.

My opinion: There are enough household accidents with guns that the BDSM community doesn't need to add to them. Use a stage replica that isn't loaded with anything but air.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:42:19 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

Oh bullshit!! You are exagerating and you know it. Either that or you don't deal with guns on a real and/or regular basis. I have dealt with guns ranging from a 9mm Berreta upto a 30mm chaingun. They can be made "safe" enough to let a novice handle. You just have to be competent enough to ensure that. I know I am. Thats why I stated taking out the firing pin (if it has one) and using DUMMY rounds. If you really think that a gun will go off with both a removed FP and dummy rounds in it then thats your stupidity. Don't project it on anyone else. And what of a replica? Do you think a replica will kill someone too? Come on, man. Grow some balls.


And how did you like Brandon Lee's movie that just came out this year?

Oh wait a minute, there was't one, was there?....cuz another 'expert' like you made his gun 'safe'.

Inert rounds and inactive guns have an unfortunate tendency to look exactly like, and get mixed up with, the real thing. Accidents can happen... when they happen with guns, they are sometimes called 'negligent homicide'.


I totally agree with the mixing ammo part here. That's why you put all of the LIVE ammo out in another area. And keep the inert stuff MARKED. Brandon would still be alive if thois precaution had been taken-it was pure incompetence that lead to his death.

Tip here, you drill a hole in the casing-it's pretty hard to miss that.

< Message edited by RRafe -- 9/25/2007 4:43:25 PM >

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