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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:47:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
And how did you like Brandon Lee's movie that just came out this year?

Oh wait a minute, there was't one, was there?....cuz another 'expert' like you made his gun 'safe'.

Inert rounds and inactive guns have an unfortunate tendency to look exactly like, and get mixed up with, the real thing. Accidents can happen... when they happen with guns, they are sometimes called 'negligent homicide'.

Just so you know, Brandon Lee died because there was something in the barrel of the gun when a blank round went off during the shooting of a movie scene. The key is that it was a blank round, not a dummy round. There is a big difference between a blank and a dummy round. Blanks are made to go off, dummy rounds are not. Dummy rounds are made so that they can't go off. But thanks for chiming in on something you know nothing about.

Oh, and FYI, blank rounds look nothing like real or dummy round. Eliminating them from being confused. Dummy rounds look like live rounds but if you are going to keep DRs with LRs then you deserve to be sent to jail for being such an idiot.

< Message edited by MrDiscipline44 -- 9/25/2007 4:51:59 PM >

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(in reply to Alumbrado)

RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:47:41 PM

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quote:

Sighs.........or you can demill the ammo. Do you understand that the danger is the appeal of the edge play? And that some CAN do it safely? I'm not trying to minimize the danger of firearms-it's people who kill-not guns.

Totally agree with the last statement.

Do I understand that danger is the appeal? Yes.

Do I believe that using a real firearm (one that can fire) is edge play "done safely"? Absolutely, categorically, unequivocally NOT.

As for demilling the ammunition...same principle. If it can fire...it's dangerous.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:49:15 PM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Sighs.........or you can demill the ammo. Do you understand that the danger is the appeal of the edge play? And that some CAN do it safely? I'm not trying to minimize the danger of firearms-it's people who kill-not guns.

Totally agree with the last statement.

Do I understand that danger is the appeal? Yes.

Do I believe that using a real firearm (one that can fire) is edge play "done safely"? Absolutely, categorically, unequivocally NOT.

As for demilling the ammunition...same principle. If it can fire...it's dangerous.

There is no powder, no live primer, how CAN it fire?

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 4:59:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

Just so you know, Brandon Lee died because there was something in the barrel of the gun when a blank round went off during the shooting of a movie scene. The key is that it was a blank round, not a dummy round. There is a big difference between a blank and a dummy round. Blanks are made to go off, dummy rounds are not. Dummy rounds are made so that they can't go off. But thanks for chiming in on something you know nothing about.

No, the ignorance is all yours... Prop masters have developed square blanks so that there is zero chance of a mix up.
You are advocating using rounds that can be mixed up and trusting to luck that no mix up could possibly ever occur.
That isn't risk management, that is ego overruling common sense.

Lee wasn't filming in Hollywood, he was letting some self proclaimed expert like yourself decide that they had made the gun perfectly safe. Which they had, except for that pesky little object in the barrel

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 9/25/2007 5:00:29 PM >

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 5:01:34 PM

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From: Austin Texas
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Why can't someone own a gun but have no ammunition? Kinda like mine...

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 5:03:01 PM

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quote:

There is no powder, no live primer, how CAN it fire?

That particular round obviously cannot fire. But if it looks just like the live round sitting next to it.... To my mind, that's just too easy a mistake to make, and the consequences of making it too high a price to pay. And I will do my damndest to persuade others to think likewise.

There is a reason why the basic rule of gun safety is to treat every weapon as if it were loaded. Failure to respect that rule is why people manage to do most of the damage they do with guns.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 5:03:57 PM

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I'm not going to take a chance on misreading you again...

Ammunition has a pesky habit of occasionally showing up where it is least expected. Like inside 'unloaded' guns. And inside 'blank' or 'dummy' filled chambers.

(in reply to camille65)

RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 5:06:45 PM

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From: Austin Texas
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Seriously, I own a gun that is kept in a lock box. I am the only key holder. There is no ammunition for that gun. Have I played quick-draw in front of the full length mirror? Maybe.

I think that precautions can be taken, that people must comprehend the danger. And if they want to play, well I hope they do it safely.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 5:10:31 PM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

There is no powder, no live primer, how CAN it fire?

That particular round obviously cannot fire. But if it looks just like the live round sitting next to it.... To my mind, that's just too easy a mistake to make, and the consequences of making it too high a price to pay. And I will do my damndest to persuade others to think likewise.

There is a reason why the basic rule of gun safety is to treat every weapon as if it were loaded. Failure to respect that rule is why people manage to do most of the damage they do with guns.

Which is why I suggested DRILING holes in the dummy round casings.. Kind of easy to spot a live one that way.

< Message edited by RRafe -- 9/25/2007 5:12:26 PM >

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 5:13:54 PM

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quote:

I think that precautions can be taken, that people must comprehend the danger. And if they want to play, well I hope they do it safely.

And you are quite correct.

There is a difference of opinion over which precautions will help to ensure that it is done 'safely'.

Some people are advocating rigorous procedures to create safe fantasies, while others are advocating suspending basic safety rules, taking a risk, and tossing around buzz words.

Anyone who wants to follow the latter path gets my wishes for good luck, because that is fundamentally what they are relying on.

(in reply to camille65)

RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 5:15:24 PM

RRafe

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Joined: 8/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

I think that precautions can be taken, that people must comprehend the danger. And if they want to play, well I hope they do it safely.

And you are quite correct.

There is a difference of opinion over which precautions will help to ensure that it is done 'safely'.

Some people are advocating rigorous procedures to create safe fantasies, while others are advocating suspending basic safety rules, taking a risk, and tossing around buzz words.

Anyone who wants to follow the latter path gets my wishes for good luck, because that is fundamentally what they are relying on.

I'm all for the rigorous precations. But I doubt that a plastic gun with a red tip is going to fool anyone.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 5:16:29 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Seriously, I own a gun that is kept in a lock box. I am the only key holder. There is no ammunition for that gun. Have I played quick-draw in front of the full length mirror? Maybe.

I think that precautions can be taken, that people must comprehend the danger. And if they want to play, well I hope they do it safely.

Hello Charlie's Angels!

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

To my mind, that's just too easy a mistake to make, and the consequences of making it too high a price to pay. And I will do my damndest to persuade others to think likewise.

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 5:22:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

I'm all for the rigorous precations. But I doubt that a plastic gun with a red tip is going to fool anyone.

Some subs are really nearsighted... perhaps yelling BANG!! convincingly?

(in reply to RRafe)

RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 5:31:20 PM

RRafe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

I'm all for the rigorous precations. But I doubt that a plastic gun with a red tip is going to fool anyone.

Some subs are really nearsighted... perhaps yelling BANG!! convincingly?

I dunno, they are really hard sells man. Especially when they trust you TOO much (curses a bit) makes the mind fuck thing DIFFICULT..............*wanders away muttering...........*

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 5:57:53 PM

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Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
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This is the limit that was agreed on, as to the defination of an 'empty gun'. It is much like sterile field, for those of you with medical training:
An empty gun is one which you have PERSONALLY verified is empty, and, which, since you last totally verified this personally, has never left your line of vision nor droped below your waist for any time - not even a moment. You can say, 'there is no such thing as an empty gun' all you want, but if you opened the gun, verified it was empty, checked the chamber, ect, ect, and it has been in your hand and in your direct line of vision since you did that, then it is an empty gun. This is what people do when they clean a gun, right? I mean, sometimes they don't do that, and then they end up with a sunroof in either thier living room or thier head. But that is not because the gun magically devoloped a live round, it is because they did not follow the rule to check it completely RIGHT BEFORE cleaning. Why would the same rule not make a gun 'empty' for gunplay?
And, obviously, dummy rounds and live rounds should never, never be stored together.
We talked about several other issues for saftey as well. I am not a gun owner myself, so I can't tell you what model he was speaking of, but he said he prefered a particular gun of his for a couple of reasons:
It looked no different from the front when loaded or unloaded, but from the back view, he would be able to see the edge of a chambered up round.
The safety mechinism was designed so that it actually dropped the firing pin out of place, so that there is no way for the gun to go off while the safety is on. Even if you drop it. Even if you pull the trigger. ect. ect.
Regardless, this is clearly RACK play. But, I admit, I have always had a fantasy about giving a gun a blowjob. Of course, on my profile I admit to having fantasies of being burnt at stake, so why should that be surprising?

(in reply to RRafe)

RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 6:36:57 PM

RRafe

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Yes, thus the rigorous precautions. Even the more dangerous scenario that I outlined will WORK if the top keeps to a rigid Setup plan. The ONLY available live round being expended immediately. There would be a safe backdrop to absorb the bullet as well.

Seriously here-it's all about the same things you do in any edge scene involving RACK..........you set it up in advance NOT to fail-and have multiple safety back ups in place BEFORE you start. Most of the train wrecks that we hear about are from people improvising on the spur of the moment.

Which is definitely unwise.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 8:01:08 PM

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TY all for your advice and concern for the community.

I have never done this. You know, I wasn't assuming the trigger would be pulled. Just to be gently touched, caressed, teased by a real handgun could be hot, in my opinion.

I understand a gun can be fully ..decapacitated? Blocked never to be used. Or even triple checked with extreme caution.

Of course, I would only consent to this with a verified expert with mutual long established trust. Not at all taken lightly.
It certainly is no joke. I do happen to have known a young man who was killed. He and a buddy were fooling around, horseplay and one gun went off. 1 shot to the head ended a happy 23 year olds life....

(in reply to celticlord2112)

RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 8:11:27 PM

RRafe

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I'd be more than worried too-but again, you don't leave anything to chance.

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RE: Gun Play - 9/25/2007 8:56:23 PM

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Dear tsatske, Ladies and Gentlemen;

I do not find guns and or weapons of any kind a problem. The real problem is with the people who are around them.

I have been blessed in being exposed to the best combat marksmen, agents for the US Government, such as the US Marshals, US Secret Service, US Treasury and local law enforcement officers and military as they had dealings with my father on a personal and professional level.

One thing has always stuck in my mind from childhood to the present day; is that guns, e.g. rifles, shotguns, semi-auto, auto and revolvers and or machine guns; are created from mechanical mechanisms--these man made mechanisms are not free from breakage and or flaws and or failures. Even the most cautious handler can be 'done in' by the failure of a safety and or some other part in a weapon. Nobody mentions that beyond human efforts to be safe; the weapon itself can become 'unsafe' just because of a failure in it's system.

Another concern that was shared, was not following safe handling and maintaining of weapons. Another posted the same protocol on handling guns/weapons--always assume the weapon is loaded, that it is ready to fire and ready to kill. It is a tool-not a toy. Too many are using weapons as to force the police into killing--thus the term; "Suicide by Cop." Even at the range where agents and law enforcement officers and or military go--there are really strict safety rules. Even then, just takes a moment to be careless, misjudge and or 'assume'--to have an accident.

Another concern would be if a sudden attack/prank was pulled on someone like me, or someone with a background like mine--Go into a kill to survive mode because my mind is still programed that a weapon towards me is an intent to kill. I will gently say, that women have been serving in the military a while now, as well as para-military and or law enforcement areas now--it is an assumption that veterans are just men--now days, it is best to remember that the woman confronted may/could be a former veteran of the military and or law enforcement. Women can go into a 'kill' mode also--not just men.

I would not participate in gun play myself--I respect weapons as tools and not a toy. I know the damage they can do and I know the damage I can do when I see a threat to my life, I may die but--I will take the attacker with me.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to tsatske)

RE: Gun Play - 9/26/2007 6:42:25 AM

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~FR~

I saw someone mention something up there about understand the "your kink may not be my kink" thing, but still gave the advice not to do it. The same post made mention about sometimes fantasies should be realized if they cant be realized safely. I truly believe it is possible to participate in gun play safely. Sure there are risks, but there are risks in sky diving and driving on a saturday night around 2am when the bars empty. You gather all the knowledge you can possible gather, you take all precautions you possibly can, and unlike sky diving and driving, you actually CAN control all the factors. On the road you cant control what some drunk idiot is going to do behind the wheel, but in your bedroom you can. It is possible to get a stageprop weapon, it is possible to "demill" an actual weapon, it is possible to not use any ammo at all, or to use demilled ammo as well. We do not engage in gun play, I have one time in a previous relationship and as I stated before, trust me it was not very risk aware and a good part of the reason the realtionship is no longer.

I have in my home over 50 firearms. Anytime I was to take one out to do anything with, whether it is to shoot an animal that is destroying my garden or attacking my livestock, or to go to the range for target practice, or down to the VFW for a turkey shoot, or out into the woods to hunt, or just for routine maintenance and cleaning. The very first thing I am going to do is take it apart and check to see if it s loaded, and what its loaded with. The instant someone else hands me a firearm of theirs, even if they state adamently that they already unloaded it, Im going to check to verify that myself. Before I fire any weapon I am going to be damn sure whats in the chanber, make sure nothing that isnt supposed to be in there is, and make sure the correct type of ammo is. Im gonna pretty damn sure what position the safety is in, and Im gonna be damn sure of not only what Im aiming at, but whats behind what Im aiming at....All of these things and more are basic common sense (and yet not so common) rules for handling a weapon. Im not going to throw all that knowlede and habit out the window because Im using a weapon in bed instead of the woods. Anyone who doesnt have the knowledge and common sense to use any weapon safetly, should not be handling it at all.

I believe whole heartedly that this type of play can be done safely, and I also applaud anyone considering it as a fantasy to go out and search for any and all knowledge and training they can possibly get. The more knowledge they gain, the more they are goingn to realize either how to do it safetly, or that unless they can do it safelty, its a fantasy that needs to be shelved.

Most of what has been discussed on this thread is about guns and whether they can be made safe or not....I think it also needs to be dicussed more thoroughly excatly how much of a mind fuck this can be. A few others have made comments about mentally not being able to handle a situation like this. During something like this, you better damn well know your partner, and be willing to stop at any signs of a problem. Fight or flight fear can really take a person by surprise, and lead to all sorts of reactions you werent expecting.

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Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
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(in reply to LadyHugs)

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