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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 5:24:08 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

I asked her because she said she was ignoring the murder aspect.


To me, it is not murder.  I do not equate abortion with murder.


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(in reply to CuriousLord)
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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 5:27:31 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

I asked her because she said she was ignoring the murder aspect.


To me, it is not murder.  I do not equate abortion with murder.



You are soft on crime.

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(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 5:33:00 PM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

I asked her because she said she was ignoring the murder aspect.


To me, it is not murder.  I do not equate abortion with murder.




You are soft on crime.


Nooo we are all just soft on you!

< Message edited by susie -- 10/8/2007 5:41:30 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 403
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 5:40:18 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Better dead than in a good home?


Who said that? Not I. Try again...

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
I'm not going to argue with you about the "moral assholes" comment.


I had you blocked until just a few moments ago. But that you think I meant you is interesting, isn't it?

Edited to add:
And now I go back to blocking you. I'm just not interested in anything you have to say. Buh-bye...

< Message edited by SugarMyChurro -- 10/8/2007 5:46:51 PM >

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 404
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 5:42:04 PM   
onekinkybitch88


Posts: 8
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		abortion isn't murder technically.. the heart doesn't start beating until about six weeks or so

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 405
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 5:45:48 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline 		lets see if i can spell this out...

i don't give a flying fuck what his argument is...and perhaps i used the wrong word...i mean't moral when i said religious...they are at times interchangable, in this case, they are not....

my problem was with your tactics....imparticular this sentence...
quote:


Whilst everyone is entitled to their opinions there is a way to put those opinions across that does not require denigrating others opinions or making personal attacks.

because both the sentence preceeding it, and the one following it denigrate the opinion of one particular other (CL) and make a personal attack (on CL)

not that he really needs me to back him up, he's got big boy under-roos....



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One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to susie)
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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 5:50:04 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLynx

I mean people don't want to believe this, but women could end up losing most if not all that we have strove for.


Do you really think making the killing of unborn children a central element of the women's rights movement is a good move in terms of avoiding the potential for a backlash?

Just wondering...

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to LadyLynx)
Profile   Post #: 407
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 5:50:49 PM   
chellekitty


Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

You know, tolerance is a two way street.


i am proudly intolerant and judgmental and noncomplacent and well down right opinionated....and thats just me...and i am good with who i am today...because i am finding my balance on a minute by minute, second by second basis between cruelty, apathy and the white knight syndrome and i can look myself in the mirror and not be ashamed and then go to sleep with absolutely no problems....


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
Profile   Post #: 408
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 5:52:28 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

 The rest, while I believe very differently than they do, have an honest difference of opinion than I.


.......this one sentence is the mark of an intelligent mind wrestling with an ethical problem..........CL, please take note. Raw intelligence is not enough in this kind of arena........


I appreciate that, phil.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 409
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 5:58:56 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty
i am proudly intolerant and judgmental and noncomplacent and well down right opinionated....and thats just me...


Then don't ask for tolerance - you must be prepared to take as well as you give.

And so must CuriousLord.

I guess you are here merely to contradict yourself. It is duly noted.

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 410
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 6:16:46 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

I find it inflammatory when a woman who has made a decision (and not an easy one) to abort a fetus that she has been told will not survive to term is called a murderer.


Some forms of euthanasia, like this one, are not murder, clearly.
I'm just saying that some people mistakenly think "murder" and "kill" are interchangeable.
They're not, of course. The former is the crime of killing. The latter is just killing.

But we're not very touchy on other words being misused around here.

quote:


You may think it is killing but to call a woman who has had to abort a wanted baby a murderer is inflammatory which ever way you look at it.


I'm not "thinking" anything... it's killing... specifically euthanasia.
Which is pretty much all good in my book, under such circumstances.
I'm just saying that the inflammatory aspect is misusing the word "murder."
And that could easily have been attributed to a wrong choice of words, really.

Not that I'm agreeing with CL on the abortion issue.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 411
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 6:44:42 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Read the whole thread and his comments to women that tell stories of heartwrenching stories of having to chose and then come back and say this.


I'm back. And I get that people are offended by his opinions.
I just didn't get why she got hung up on that wording.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 412
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 6:49:55 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty


not that he really needs me to back him up, he's got big boy under-roos....




are you sure?
l

(in reply to chellekitty)
Profile   Post #: 413
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 6:52:33 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Read the whole thread and his comments to women that tell stories of heartwrenching stories of having to chose and then come back and say this.


I'm back. And I get that people are offended by his opinions.
I just didn't get why she got hung up on that wording.

Health,
al-Aswad.



ok my apologies.
l

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 414
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 7:13:47 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Read the whole thread and his comments to women that tell stories of heartwrenching stories of having to chose and then come back and say this.


I'm back. And I get that people are offended by his opinions.
I just didn't get why she got hung up on that wording.

Health,
al-Aswad.



You honestly don't get why someone got "hung up" on being called a murderer and an inhuman monster?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 415
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 7:21:04 PM   
DesireDeeva


Posts: 48
Joined: 10/5/2006
From: IN...livin in MI.
Status: offline 		julietsierra, I applaude you for being so open w/us.
 I'm not on either side because I don't "have" to be, if I were raped and ended up being pregnant and had an abortion, would you call me a murderer? what if I didn't get raped and became pregnant yet had an abortion? do I not have any say so as to whether or not I wanted to have the child??? I've never had an abortion but it would be "my"choice if  I chose to do so for whatever reason.
Murder you say? ok....but that doesn't stop some women from using abortion as a form of birth-control, it didn't stop some women from using hangers to terminate a pregnancy, should abortion be outlawed??? good question...but  I  doubt if it would ever happen... and what about the women who have the child or children and then kill them? should these women have had an abortion instead of having the child or children????
Is there really a "right " or "wrong" regarding this subject? it's a matter of "choice" in my opinion. *now back to CSI Miami* good thread btw.

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 7:52:30 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

You honestly don't get why someone got "hung up" on being called a murderer and an inhuman monster?


Yeah, I do. Go back. Reread what I wrote from the start. Maybe that'll clarify. Seriously.
You're getting the wrong idea here. And I never meant for this to go on for ages.

Health,
al-Aswad.

< Message edited by Aswad -- 10/8/2007 8:15:19 PM >

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 417
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 8:20:30 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Haven't I seen you make judgements in other topics, based upon your own morals?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
Better that moralizing, judgmental assholes mind their own business.


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When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

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RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 8:23:23 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

You honestly don't get why someone got "hung up" on being called a murderer and an inhuman monster?


Yeah, I do. Go back. Reread what I wrote from the start. Maybe that'll clarify. Seriously.
You're getting the wrong idea here. And I never meant for this to go on for ages.

Health,
al-Aswad.


Whew. You had me worried there.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 419
RE: Abortion - 10/8/2007 8:33:31 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

~FR~
 
CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE
SECTION 187-199

187.

  • Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice aforethought.
  • This section shall not apply to any person who commits an act that results in the death of a fetus if any of the following apply:
    1. The act complied with the Therapeutic Abortion Act, Article 2 (commencing with Section 123400) of Chapter 2 of Part 2 of Division 106 of the Health and Safety Code.
    2. The act was committed by a holder of a physician's and surgeon's certificate, as defined in the Business and Professions Code, in a case where, to a medical certainty, the result of childbirth would be death of the mother of the fetus or where her death from childbirth, although not medically certain, would be substantially certain or more likely than not.
    3. The act was solicited, aided, abetted, or consented to by the mother of the fetus.

  • Subdivision (b) shall not be construed to prohibit the prosecution of any person under any other provision of law.1


    • Looking again at Celeste's excerpt from the California Penal Code, I'm struck that it distinguishes between a "human being" and a "fetus." I wonder if other states do so as well.

    It's also interesting that, as Level and I calmly discussed earlier, the law specificies that the act is done "with malice."


    < Message edited by dcnovice -- 10/8/2007 8:35:28 PM >

    _____________________________

    No matter how cynical you become,
    it's never enough to keep up.

    JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
    INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

    (in reply to BitaTruble)
    Profile   Post #: 420
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