RE: War on Drugs.

RE: War on Drugs. (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 9:20:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Interesting the assumptions being made - did you consider a third option? i work in the field of rehabilitation. Thanks anyway for implying i am a lier. it isn't just you, many who work in your field spread lies and instigate fear-mongering with tales of urban myths of laced marijuana, etc. You, your "field", the FDA, the DEA and large pharmeceutical companies all have a vested interest in keeping folks ideas about marijuana in the "Reefer Madness" fear-mongering realm of fantasy....or you could just call it lies.

velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 9:25:28 AM)
smiles if you say so. Or you could say people so addicted to a substance would say anything, use any rationalization to be able to keep doing it. i'm not trying to take away anyones blankie - just hoping it doesn't strangle you one day.

Mercnbeth -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 9:29:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears smiles if you say so. Or you could say people so addicted to a substance would say anything, use any rationalization to be able to keep doing it. i'm not trying to take away anyones blankie - just hoping it doesn't strangle you one day. right back atcha....this slave hopes you never need something to take your pain away, or your nausea for that matter, and find yourself confronted with self-righteous know-nothings in charge of who is allowed to have what, in their personal or medical best interest.

velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 9:36:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears smiles if you say so. Or you could say people so addicted to a substance would say anything, use any rationalization to be able to keep doing it. i'm not trying to take away anyones blankie - just hoping it doesn't strangle you one day. right back atcha....this slave hopes you never need something to take your pain away, or your nausea for that matter, and find yourself confronted with self-righteous know-nothings in charge of who is allowed to have what, in their personal or medical best interest. Don't put words in my mouth please... i never said to deprive people of any substance for medical purposes. i do suffer pain daily as i have fibromyalgia, i have been given vicodin which i will take sparingly on my worste days. Pot for cancer patients, if it relieves their suffering i would never be against. What i won't do is take a substance to alter my emotional/mental state of mind - i enjoy life and being in the moment too much for that. i come from a whole lineage of addicts and have seen too much suffering in my lifetime to ever feel differently.

Mercnbeth -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 9:40:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Interesting the assumptions being made - did you consider a third option? i work in the field of rehabilitation. Thanks anyway for implying i am a lier. No - If I'd know that I wouldn't have argued with you. I'd understand that you have a need to protect your job and career and rationalize its existence. It would be the same as someone working OSHA saying that all workplaces in their district are "safe". It will never happen because all the inspectors and the worthless bureaucrats who support them would be out of work.

canupleaseme -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 9:46:26 AM)
Whilst I think that alcohol can be as bad if not worse than drugs and I am personally not wure why they dont legalise weed, I have to say that personally starting smoking weed led me to eventually have , in my eyes, a drug problem that went onto all kinds of class a substances. I spent a year happily loving speed exstacy coke and ketamine and justifying it. I smoked more and more weed and got in a worse and worse state. It took me 3 months to clean myself up off the a's but it took me nearly a year to stop smoking weed. I know its not meant to be addictive but god ive found it right hard not to have a joint. I still do and I still feel for me personally weed was the worst drug I took. I guess it all boils down to self control and I dont really have any ( well maybe a bit more now) I know several friends who take it because they have a medical condition that causes them daily pain and I say why the hell not, like anything as long as you controll it and it doesnt control you.

velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 9:52:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Interesting the assumptions being made - did you consider a third option? i work in the field of rehabilitation. Thanks anyway for implying i am a lier. No - If I'd know that I wouldn't have argued with you. I'd understand that you have a need to protect your job and career and rationalize its existence. It would be the same as someone working OSHA saying that all workplaces in their district are "safe". It will never happen because all the inspectors and the worthless bureaucrats who support them would be out of work. How about instead of making jabs at me say what you mean to say - why leave it up for interpretation of reading between the lines of subtle insults to me? i will ask you directly - should everyone close shop, leave drug addicts alone and say hey it's all good, go ahead whatever feels good? Are you saying no one who smokes pot ever goes on to harder drugs, or for that matter a lifetime of pot smoking alone is ever a problem? i don't have a need to protect anything, much of my passion on this subject comes from watching those i love die - like my uncle who was writing and frothing at the mouth - my last imaage of him when i was nine. my brothers, both of whom began with pot. One had a heroin overdose and i had to stand in the ER watching as a team of doctors tried to save his life and only gave him a 30 percent chance of making it. One of my best friends growing up, we parted ways after high school - she was one of those who smoked pot in the back of the school - beautiful girl, intelligent, had scholarship to an ivy league - when i returned to NY at 22 she ended up a prostitute on the street to support her habit and eventually died of aids. It almost killed her mother, she was an only child. i was with her the last days and held her hand so angry at what drugs did to her and her family. i will ask again - stop making assumptions about me to defend something you rationalize as a good thing.

Mercnbeth -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:00:08 AM)
quote: my passion on this subject comes from watching those i love die - like my uncle who was writing and frothing at the mouth - my last imaage of him when i was nine. my brothers, both of whom began with pot. One had a heroin overdose and i had to stand in the ER watching as a team of doctors tried to save his life and only gave him a 30 percent chance of making it. One of my best friends growing up, we parted ways after high school - she was one of those who smoked pot in the back of the school - beautiful girl, intelligent, had scholarship to an ivy league - when i returned to NY at 22 she ended up a prostitute on the street to support her habit and eventually died of aids. It almost killed her mother, she was an only child. i was with her the last days and held her hand so angry at what drugs did to her and her family. Sorry you had the experience to associate with people using heroin, being prostitutes, and having no control over their lives. You have my sympathies but its totally irrelevant to the subject of marijuana. Unless it's now your position that marijuana causes AIDS? quote: i will ask again - stop making assumptions about me to defend something you rationalize as a good thing. You need to point to the assumption. Didn't make any and addressed each tangential argument you made separately; including your involvement in the rehabilitation industry. It's rare that I'm referred to as "subtle". Sorry if you find my arguments insulting they are not intended to be. Edited to add: quote: i will ask you directly - should everyone close shop, leave drug addicts alone and say hey it's all good, go ahead whatever feels good? Are you saying no one who smokes pot ever goes on to harder drugs, or for that matter a lifetime of pot smoking alone is ever a problem? Forgot to respond to this before hitting the OK. And are you saying that everyone who smokes pot goes on to harder drugs? At least its good to see you are off the idea of free PCP being added. What I'm saying is that the hypocrisy of "legal" should be eliminated. Whether you close shop or not is market driven. You happen to be in an industry that has government help in generating clients. Judges giving sentences of "rehabilitation" or jail support you. If a person who used marijuana wasn't considered a criminal he wouldn't appear in front of the judge in the first place and your industry would need to find another source of business. Why support hypocrisy? Are you as adamant and out there trying to get prohibition back on the book? At least in that case you have medical and empirical evidence supporting the position you have concerning marijuana. You can overdose from alcohol and its effects on the human body are well researched and documented. Are you out there trying to get prescription pain killers off the market? Here again you have virtually limitless evidence of overdosing and detrimental long term effect. I support two position in the macro - personal choice and the elimination of hypocrisy. The drug issue provides a great arena to address both.

Real0ne -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:00:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sundownhawk I say put the tobacco farmers back to work and let them grow marijuana then sell it, tax it and put the South Americans out of the “pot” business. How about the cia in the afghan poppy biz? lol quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth right back atcha....this slave hopes you never need something to take your pain away, or your nausea for that matter, and find yourself confronted with self-righteous know-nothings in charge of who is allowed to have what, in their personal or medical best interest. Therin lies the problem. As far as I am concerned ALL Drugs should be over the counter. I am one of those people who self medicate and tell the doctors what I will and will not take or want or whatever. I have yet to be refused a med (even narcotics incertain instances), but still this big brother approach to life goes against everything the constitution stands for in an effort to further big pharma. If it cannot be made into a government subsidized and controlled drug then it is legislated as illegal. Another one is tryptophan. They are taking over by targeting suppliers not the users, and suppliers have no real interest in upholding anyones rights as there are many (other) products to be sold. We have less and you have no idea how much less freedom here in the us than even most 3rd world countries under the guise of "taking care of my brother". DMSO is not illegal but the jack asses are even trying to dup its effects in to something that can be regulated as a drug as well as any herbals that work as "home remedies". The object is t o create something we have to pay for and legislate it so it can be done no other way. Father fascism.

velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:15:47 AM)
quote: i will ask you directly - should everyone close shop, leave drug addicts alone and say hey it's all good, go ahead whatever feels good? Are you saying no one who smokes pot ever goes on to harder drugs, or for that matter a lifetime of pot smoking alone is ever a problem? Did you forget my inquiry?

Mercnbeth -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:20:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears smiles if you say so. Or you could say people so addicted to a substance would say anything, use any rationalization to be able to keep doing it. i'm not trying to take away anyones blankie - just hoping it doesn't strangle you one day. right back atcha....this slave hopes you never need something to take your pain away, or your nausea for that matter, and find yourself confronted with self-righteous know-nothings in charge of who is allowed to have what, in their personal or medical best interest. Don't put words in my mouth please... i never said to deprive people of any substance for medical purposes. i do suffer pain daily as i have fibromyalgia, i have been given vicodin which i will take sparingly on my worste days. Pot for cancer patients, if it relieves their suffering i would never be against. What i won't do is take a substance to alter my emotional/mental state of mind - i enjoy life and being in the moment too much for that. i come from a whole lineage of addicts and have seen too much suffering in my lifetime to ever feel differently. and if you were allergic to vicodin/oxycontin, etc. and found marijuana to be a terrific all-natural substitute for your pain relief with the added bonus that it eliminates your nausea and stops the puke-cycle, how would you respond to someone who talks a bunch of fear-mongering, urban-myth passing, misinformation about it and in response to your support of said medicine says things like: "i'm not trying to take away anyone's blankie, just hoping it doesn't strangle you one day" this slave didn't put words in your mouth, merely called you on yours. why would you say that to anyone who found relief from marijuana-for any reason, physical or mental...and this slave isn't talking about your junkie friends and relatives...she's talking about folks with positive experiences, who have documented biological illnesses, not the "disease" of drug addiction.

Mercnbeth -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:30:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: i will ask you directly - should everyone close shop, leave drug addicts alone and say hey it's all good, go ahead whatever feels good? Are you saying no one who smokes pot ever goes on to harder drugs, or for that matter a lifetime of pot smoking alone is ever a problem? Did you forget my inquiry? At first yes - but I corrected my error. Sorry. Edited to add: quote: i will ask you directly - should everyone close shop, leave drug addicts alone and say hey it's all good, go ahead whatever feels good? Are you saying no one who smokes pot ever goes on to harder drugs, or for that matter a lifetime of pot smoking alone is ever a problem? Forgot to respond to this before hitting the OK. And are you saying that everyone who smokes pot goes on to harder drugs? At least its good to see you are off the idea of free PCP being added. What I'm saying is that the hypocrisy of "legal" should be eliminated. Whether you close shop or not is market driven. You happen to be in an industry that has government help in generating clients. Judges giving sentences of "rehabilitation" or jail support you. If a person who used marijuana wasn't considered a criminal he wouldn't appear in front of the judge in the first place and your industry would need to find another source of business. Why support hypocrisy? Are you as adamant and out there trying to get prohibition back on the book? At least in that case you have medical and empirical evidence supporting the position you have concerning marijuana. You can overdose from alcohol and its effects on the human body are well researched and documented. Are you out there trying to get prescription pain killers off the market? Here again you have virtually limitless evidence of overdosing and detrimental long term effect. I support two position in the macro - personal choice and the elimination of hypocrisy. The drug issue provides a great arena to address both.

velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:33:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth And are you saying that everyone who smokes pot goes on to harder drugs? At least its good to see you are off the idea of free PCP being added. *No not saying everyone, just many. i stated what i know about pcp and pot - why the need to go back and repeat myself?* What I'm saying is that the hypocrisy of "legal" should be eliminated. Whether you close shop or not is market driven. You happen to be in an industry that has government help in generating clients. Judges giving sentences of "rehabilitation" or jail support you. The rehabilitation i am involved in has nothing to do with judge mandated sentences - they are way beyond that point by the time i see them. i wonder how you would feel if there were no resources for drug addicts in your little neck of the woods, and it became affected by desperate drug addicts looking for a fix - circumstance determines attitude. If a person who used marijuana wasn't considered a criminal he wouldn't appear in front of the judge in the first place and your industry would need to find another source of business. Doesn't mean it's still not going to effect his life. Why support hypocrisy? Are you as adamant and out there trying to get prohibition back on the book? At least in that case you have medical and empirical evidence supporting the position you have concerning marijuana. You can overdose from alcohol and its effects on the human body are well researched and documented. Are you out there trying to get prescription pain killers off the market? Here again you have virtually limitless evidence of overdosing and detrimental long term effect. i just speak my heart and experiences and try to help those who want and need help. There is nothing more futile then trying to help an addict who doesn't "need" help - learned that a longggggggg time ago. In fact traditional rehabs don't want addicts coming to them for help unless they are 100% on board and admit they have a problem and need the help. Yes they do get court mandated clients they have to suffer, but they don't waste too much effort on them. I support two position in the macro - personal choice and the elimination of hypocrisy. The drug issue provides a great arena to address both. Would personal choice include informed choice? i hope so because you paint the rosey picture which is misleading - that may be your experience but there are many out there who have such addictable personalities/chemistries that one substance will lead to another and they will loose control of their lives - are you saying this never happens?

kc692 -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:35:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Interesting the assumptions being made - did you consider a third option? i work in the field of rehabilitation. Thanks anyway for implying i am a lier. And of course those that come to you (if this is the case, as I suspect because they are continually getting tested, and continually failing, so I am guessing you are court mandated for them) would NEVER tell you anything to make you feel sorry for them, now would they? And yes, take those who cannot accomplish the tasks they need to succeed in life over those that seem to be doing rather well at it.

kc692 -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:36:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears smiles if you say so. Or you could say people so addicted to a substance would say anything, use any rationalization to be able to keep doing it. i'm not trying to take away anyones blankie - just hoping it doesn't strangle you one day. Again, by your own admission, believe those that would "say anything" to tell you the unadulterated truth.

velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:38:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth and if you were allergic to vicodin/oxycontin, etc. and found marijuana to be a terrific all-natural substitute for your pain relief with the added bonus that it eliminates your nausea and stops the puke-cycle, how would you respond to someone who talks a bunch of fear-mongering, urban-myth passing, misinformation about it and in response to your support of said medicine says things like: "i'm not trying to take away anyone's blankie, just hoping it doesn't strangle you one day" this slave didn't put words in your mouth, merely called you on yours. why would you say that to anyone who found relief from marijuana-for any reason, physical or mental...and this slave isn't talking about your junkie friends and relatives...she's talking about folks with positive experiences, who have documented biological illnesses, not the "disease" of drug addiction. i didn't say it to "anyone who found relief from marijuana-for any reason, physical or mental" i responded to you. You were the first to bring up pot for medicinal purposes and i said i had no probelm with that - so where is your issue?

kc692 -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:39:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: velvetears Interesting the assumptions being made - did you consider a third option? i work in the field of rehabilitation. Thanks anyway for implying i am a lier. No - If I'd know that I wouldn't have argued with you. I'd understand that you have a need to protect your job and career and rationalize its existence. It would be the same as someone working OSHA saying that all workplaces in their district are "safe". It will never happen because all the inspectors and the worthless bureaucrats who support them would be out of work. How about instead of making jabs at me say what you mean to say - why leave it up for interpretation of reading between the lines of subtle insults to me? i will ask you directly - should everyone close shop, leave drug addicts alone and say hey it's all good, go ahead whatever feels good? Are you saying no one who smokes pot ever goes on to harder drugs, or for that matter a lifetime of pot smoking alone is ever a problem? i don't have a need to protect anything, much of my passion on this subject comes from watching those i love die - like my uncle who was writing and frothing at the mouth - my last imaage of him when i was nine. my brothers, both of whom began with pot. One had a heroin overdose and i had to stand in the ER watching as a team of doctors tried to save his life and only gave him a 30 percent chance of making it. One of my best friends growing up, we parted ways after high school - she was one of those who smoked pot in the back of the school - beautiful girl, intelligent, had scholarship to an ivy league - when i returned to NY at 22 she ended up a prostitute on the street to support her habit and eventually died of aids. It almost killed her mother, she was an only child. i was with her the last days and held her hand so angry at what drugs did to her and her family. i will ask again - stop making assumptions about me to defend something you rationalize as a good thing. Are you saying everyone who does smoke DOES do those things? I am personally of the same opinion as many others...legalize it, and let the ones that die off that will.....would stop alot of other crimes...oh but then, who would you counsel?

Mercnbeth -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:42:35 AM)
quote: so where is your issue? The issue is with hypocrisy and absolutism which discounts or is blind to reality.

kc692 -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:45:23 AM)
leaves the issue to mercnbeth because they are calmer to deal with idiocy...if not I might have to go find a fattie, of which I have not done in years, lol!!

velvetears -> RE: War on Drugs. (10/17/2007 10:50:37 AM)
quote: Are you saying everyone who does smoke DOES do those things? Go back and read for the answer to that i won't repeat myself. i don't know you or your life circumstances but i hope the problem never touches your life in any form - even if it's getting your throat slit so someone can rob you of 10 bucks to score some crack. quote: The issue is with hypocrisy and absolutism which discounts or is blind to reality. i never spoke in absolutes and there is nothing hypocritical in sharing what ones experiences and knowledge are. Your mileage differs from mine, fortunate for you... the best of luck to you.

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