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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/27/2007 9:35:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

... Look at my little exchange above, somebody lists all the countries in the ME thinking that is somehow going to show how wrong I am, after showing how it proves my point, she concludes she won...

*sighs* I see your arrogance is getting in the way...

I had no intention to try to answer your questions addressed to Pinkme2... or to prove you wrong on whatever point it was that you were trying to make with them. They were every bit as meaningless as the one I posed to you.

Anyone can post a list of questions and insist that others reply to them, but we each have the freedom to select just what we will take the time to respond to and what we will ignore. When someone chooses not to accede to your demands, it doesn't grant you victory by default.

Additionally, I do not consider engagements in these forums as either a win or lose situation... I don't view every comment as a challenge to my "manhood". You did, however, prove my point by illustrating that you had no qualms about ignoring my question and I think it is fairly obvious that you weren't conceding inability to do so. That doesn't mean that I win and you lose... that would be childish.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/27/2007 3:59:03 PM

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So again, thanks for proving how little you understand about the subject at hand. Any chance you want to engage in some actual dialog or is this all you can manage?

(in reply to TreasureKY)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/27/2007 7:08:18 PM

ModeratorEleven

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Children, enough.

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/28/2007 10:21:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2

The single issue guys are the ones tagging along not visa versa. I wish it weren't so, because I dont' think that these communists groups preach peace.

....you say potato, i say...er..potato. Damn, typing leaves little scope for inflection, but you see what i mean. You have a position which is your right and duty. i have a position also that is different to yours. You take from the sites you linked to a certain set of data which is different to the data i take from it. Now, one of us is probably wrong but without the two of us going on the road and interviewing an awful lot of people we are unlikely to objectively be able to settle it here.

I can understand that we'll just disagree on this, and I'm cool with that.

quote:

i do take issue though with your inference that protesting against the Iraq war is somehow about weakening the national identity of the USA.

Umm... Did I say that it was weakening our identity? I do think it improves our enemy's morale though.

quote:

Arguably protesting such things is part of the USA's strength. Morale can not be based on falsehood, not if truth is our aim. Therefore such issues must be critically examined, and if it turns out that mistakes have been made they must be owned up to.

I think mistakes can be uncovered, discussed and prosecuted *after* we've won. It's all about perception, not truth. Haven't you been paying attention? *wink*

I have been debating a few years now, and when I can clearly see that a person is disrespectful, trollish towards me, and isn't interested in real debate, I usually ignore them, unless I'm feeling like I've got time to waste. And I didn't, so I wasn't going to go off on *another* tangent, just to satisfy someone who hates me. *shrug* (and this isn't directed at you, Philo.)

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/28/2007 10:51:02 PM

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quote:

I think mistakes can be uncovered, discussed and prosecuted *after* we've won. It's all about perception, not truth.

And of course you haven't a clue what "victory" looks like outside of a fairtale story but I do believe you that you believe perception is more important than truth, it's is after all sort of the Republican way.

(in reply to pinkme2)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/28/2007 11:02:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

I think mistakes can be uncovered, discussed and prosecuted *after* we've won. It's all about perception, not truth.

And of course you haven't a clue what "victory" looks like outside of a fairtale story but I do believe you that you believe perception is more important than truth, it's is after all sort of the Republican way.

Do you have a point in your rant? Is there a question in there?

No where did I say perception was *more important* than truth. Often, truth is in the eye of the beholder and becomes very difficult if not impossible to find... especially when you are dealing with a whole world, classified info and different people's take on the same situation. So that's why I say it's about perception.

You are extremely rude. If you want me to answer you in further posts, please debate respectfully.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/28/2007 11:19:18 PM

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You have never shown the ability to grasp, let alone answer, my questions and I haven't been rude I just treat you with the minimum level of civility required here.

You claimed anyone interested in the peace process is directly or indirectly manipulated by communists, based on the most ridiculous assumptions that wouldn't pass in any decent college class on logic let alone the real world. Oh, and some would consider that a rather large and ugly insult so before you whine about other's casting stones, you might wonder why you can look through the walls of your house.

When I debate with someone who impresses me with their command of the subject at hand I show my respect for them. You have yet to write anything worthy of any respect which is why I treat you with a minimum of civility.

(in reply to pinkme2)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/28/2007 11:23:37 PM

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I gotcha, Michael. I can grasp everything you've told me, I've just chosen not to answer your dull, emotionally charged, and ugly questions.. Have fun tormenting someone else. Goodnight.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/28/2007 11:31:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Socialism is simply another step along the way to communism, IMO.

What do you call Bush's "No Child Gets Ahead" program of taking over local control of schools?

If that ain't "The March of Socialism", what is?

Sorry... just saw this. Not sure what this has to do with the thread, but I'll take a stab at it.

It sure is a step in that direction, and I hate it.

(in reply to farglebargle)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 12:04:42 AM

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So if I have this correct, Pink said,
"What? You deny that communism isn't around anymore? Who is the main financier of most peace rallies? The communists." on page 4

Which simplymicheal translates into

"You claimed anyone interested in the peace process is directly or indirectly manipulated by communists,"
and continues to say," based on the most ridiculous assumptions that wouldn't pass in any decent college class on logic let alone the real world."

Can anyone tell me what logic says about simplymicheal's grasp of logic? What is the term for mis stating your opponents position, and arguing against it? It has always seemed to me to be an admission of defeat to resort to such a basic fallacy.

No one is saying that anyone who is against the Iraq war is a communist. The provided links show that Communists are heavily involved in the leadership of these groups. Most people do not know that ANSWER actually supports the dictatorship of N Korea. The whole tactic of joining popular fronts, to get whatever benefit of weakening the State to be overthrown was written down in the 19th century by the Marxists. Lenin had the pacifists and anarchists slughtered after he soldified powercalled them. Usefull Idiots is what he called them.

(in reply to pinkme2)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 12:56:44 AM

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I believe your Post #9 of this thread has been the longest post in any thread I've yet read on CM. Incidently, it also happens to be one of the more satisfying ones.

Good find.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 9:20:53 AM

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Of course it escapes all of the Bush worshipers that she in no way showed money coming from communists groups. As usual, Bush worshipers have at best a nebulous grasp of reality which of course is why Bush loves them so much, it makes fooling them so effortless.

Heck, most of them cant even begin to have discourse at the level of some of the liberals here and so they have to invent straw men to attack.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 9:53:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

When I debate with someone who impresses me with their command of the subject at hand I show my respect for them.

... and, by definition, anyone who disagrees with you obviously doesn't have "command of the subject" ... and is therefore not worthy of any respect.

Got it.

If you disagree with SM, then you are an idiot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
You have yet to write anything worthy of any respect which is why I treat you with a minimum of civility.

... and since only idiots dare disagree with SM, then they don't warrant any civility, respect, or humanity.

Got it.

hmmm .... I think the DSM-IV has a name for those type of belief patterns.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 10/29/2007 9:54:35 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 9:58:14 AM

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This is *EXACTLY* like when Rush Limbaugh said that anyone who disagreed with Bush on the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq was either "Crazy" or "a Phony Republican".

Hmmm... Interesting.

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(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 10:03:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I believe your Post #9 of this thread has been the longest post in any thread I've yet read on CM. Incidently, it also happens to be one of the more satisfying ones.

Good find.

Thank you. I liked reading the responses more than the originating blog entry, as well.

Firm

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 10:06:35 AM

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I can't believe this is still going on.

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 10:09:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

This is *EXACTLY* like when Rush Limbaugh said that anyone who disagreed with Bush on the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq was either "Crazy" or "a Phony Republican".

Hmmm... Interesting.

No. Not interesting.

Let me explain it in simple terms:

People will always hold different opinions, and believe different facts and different sources, based on their life experiences.

No two people will have the exact same beliefs.

Holding differing beliefs doesn't automatically make someone evil, stupid, criminal or reprehensible.

Some people - however - act, respond, and believe that holding a differing beliefs makes you evil, stupid, criminal or reprehensible.

This group of people tend to mock, belittle and insult all others who don't slavishly agree and kowtow to them at all times.

This is different from sarcasm, or heated disagreements about principles, interpretations or philosophical belief systems.

It's a basic function and form of their personalities. It will not change. They are not "open to reason". It's not about reason, logic, science or anything else .... it's about a narcissistic need to dominate and control.

Talking or engaging such people in rhetoric or discussion isn't really even a possibility, and is really just a waste of time (unless you just like throwing a little gas on the fire occasionally).

Firm

PS ... well, as least you finally got me to respond to one of your posts, FB. Don't expect it often. If ever again.

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 10/29/2007 10:27:32 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 10:27:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkme2
I think mistakes can be uncovered, discussed and prosecuted *after* we've won. It's all about perception, not truth. Haven't you been paying attention? *wink*

...this, i think, is the crux of our disagreement. i do strongly believe that the truth takes precedence over just about anything else. Another word for perception in politics is spin. Once we start down the road of managing perception as opposed to discovering truth, then we lose our moral anchors. We abandon our ethics.
The war on terror is only justifiable as a war of ethical systems.....essentially a question of what is the right way to create political and societal change. If we lose sight of that then we stand the very real risk of becoming the real terrorists. Perhaps not the 'strap a bomb on yer chest and find a bus' sort of terrorist.....but the sort of terrorist that uses fear as the weapon of choice.
i genuinely think we can do better than that.

(in reply to pinkme2)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 11:00:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
...this, i think, is the crux of our disagreement. i do strongly believe that the truth takes precedence over just about anything else. Another word for perception in politics is spin. Once we start down the road of managing perception as opposed to discovering truth, then we lose our moral anchors. We abandon our ethics.
The war on terror is only justifiable as a war of ethical systems.....essentially a question of what is the right way to create political and societal change. If we lose sight of that then we stand the very real risk of becoming the real terrorists. Perhaps not the 'strap a bomb on yer chest and find a bus' sort of terrorist.....but the sort of terrorist that uses fear as the weapon of choice.
i genuinely think we can do better than that.

I agree with Phil on this one the biggest terrorists in the Middle East is the US military.

(in reply to philosophy)

RE: An example of why our military loves the press .... - 10/29/2007 11:06:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
...this, i think, is the crux of our disagreement. i do strongly believe that the truth takes precedence over just about anything else. Another word for perception in politics is spin. Once we start down the road of managing perception as opposed to discovering truth, then we lose our moral anchors. We abandon our ethics.
The war on terror is only justifiable as a war of ethical systems.....essentially a question of what is the right way to create political and societal change. If we lose sight of that then we stand the very real risk of becoming the real terrorists. Perhaps not the 'strap a bomb on yer chest and find a bus' sort of terrorist.....but the sort of terrorist that uses fear as the weapon of choice.
i genuinely think we can do better than that.

I agree with Phil on this one the biggest terrorists in the Middle East is the US military.

...i'm reminded of the line from the Abyss.....'hippie, don't be on my side'.......Joanus, you may be right, you may be wrong. Now what is the best way forward? To name call and engage in childish yah boo you're a bigger terrorist than my fridge stuff? Or to try to identify the root of the problem (if there is a problem) and move on from there.
Bear in mind that no-one listens to you if all you do is identify the bad stuff, try identifying positive things too.
For instance, i have argued hotly with firmhand in the past, i don't apologise for that......but it got us precisely nowhere. All it did is entrench our previously held opinions. If change is to happen we all have to hold our preconceptions in a certain amount of contempt......this means you, me, firmhand, pinkme and the dalai lama........

(in reply to joanus)

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