RE: What are words for? (Full Version)

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Alumbrado -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 1:31:31 PM)

The sooner you get over the notion that being disagreed with is being belittled, the better chance you have of not getting so many 'belittling' replies.[:D]



Rover -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 1:45:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidnightMaiden

quote:

First of all, your breathing can be an exceptionally inaccurate method of determining what is happening (unless you cease breathing, which is almost universally regarded as a problem).


Thanks for the two smart arse comments I received from two other posters besides yourself John, being genuinely knew to the scene and still learning many things, it's great to have responses that are belittling.
 
To begin, I'm not responsible for anyone's responses other than my own.  And my response was not intended to be smart arsed, so if you interpreted it that way you infered something on your own.  I remind you that in your post to me, you were the one who brought up not breathing. 

quote:


I believe that the initial question I responded to said "you realize your breath is restricted to the point that you are unable to breathe at all".  So I made the assumption that I had stopped breathing, which I would assume any Top would be able to spot? 
 
I have no idea who said what initially.  It's impossible to keep track of a thread in all its twists and turns.  But I do know that you quoted me, and the reply was to me, so I responded.  No assumptions there.
 
quote:

Is there a Top reading that that would not notice their bottom had stopped breathing entirely?  I am not talking about being able to trust my Top to monitor slight fluctations, I am talking about being able to trust a Top to spot that I had STOPPED BREATHING.
 
Since you're new, I'll say this as nicely as possible.  There many scenes in which the Top would be completely unaware of the bottom's breathing.  By way of example, some friends of mine used to include a garbage bag in their play (combination breath play with punching, and sometimes they combined it with piss play as well).  It was physically impossible for him to monitor his girl's breathing, or to know if she had stopped breathing, if it were not for a safe signal (she held onto a set of keys or bell which would drop if she lost consciousness, ceased breathing, or was otherwise in distress). 
 
Don't assume too much, as you do not know what you do not know.
 
John



laurell3 -> RE: Safe words (11/15/2007 2:44:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: briska

Direct response to the OP-

"No, Seriously - that hurts!" usually. More often than not, Sir will talk to me in japanese during a scene to constantly make sure I'm okay, but every once in a while I throw this one out there. ;)

Also, non-verbally a big RED is when i start to fall into my bonds - putting all my weight on the rope/cuffs rather than standing on my own. It's kind of like my body saying "Ok, I'm in subspace now, and my knees just buckled so you should probably take me down..." Of course, Sir and I have been together for a couple of years now, so (yes, roll your eyes if you must) He can see and has taken me down/stopped playing when this happens.




finger-snapping, items...my point is obviously in this situation providing that information is somewhat imperitive, does that somehow magically transform the sub into a top?  Of course not, it keeps you both safe and out of prison [8D]



laurell3 -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 2:48:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Ja, sounds like a war of opinions.  Because there is no one 'right' way to go about safewords, and it does illustrate two polarized camps within the BDSM community, it comes up over and over.  Sort of like abortion rights on a political message board.

As I've said before, I don't play with safewords.  It isn't because I don't care about who I'm playing with.  It's because I expect them to communicate with me within the scene.  "Ow, that hurts" or "Please Master, no more" are perfectly acceptable to me in a scene.  I don't seen scenes or plays as performances like I would as an actor in a play; what is happening is real, and takes place in a real headspace.  It isn't fantasy for me. 

I won't list the reasons I don't use safewords; I've done it a few times in the past, but to me it does just boil down to trust.  You need to trust the person you are playing with, and you trust yourself.  Safewords don't replace trust, and only have value when trust has been established.

Stephan


 
noooo he said the "a" word!



briska -> RE: Safe words (11/15/2007 2:53:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: briska

Direct response to the OP-

"No, Seriously - that hurts!" usually. More often than not, Sir will talk to me in japanese during a scene to constantly make sure I'm okay, but every once in a while I throw this one out there. ;)

Also, non-verbally a big RED is when i start to fall into my bonds - putting all my weight on the rope/cuffs rather than standing on my own. It's kind of like my body saying "Ok, I'm in subspace now, and my knees just buckled so you should probably take me down..." Of course, Sir and I have been together for a couple of years now, so (yes, roll your eyes if you must) He can see and has taken me down/stopped playing when this happens.




finger-snapping, items...my point is obviously in this situation providing that information is somewhat imperitive, does that somehow magically transform the sub into a top?  Of course not, it keeps you both safe and out of prison [8D]


I never said I had any qualms about being transformed to a top.  I'm just saying that's how he knows when I'm not speaking.  If i can't stand, how can I snap my fingers? Also, I can drop an item just by being hit a certain way, but that doesn't mean I need Him to stop playing with me.



laurell3 -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 2:59:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidnightMaiden

quote:

First of all, your breathing can be an exceptionally inaccurate method of determining what is happening (unless you cease breathing, which is almost universally regarded as a problem).


Thanks for the two smart arse comments I received from two other posters besides yourself John, being genuinely knew to the scene and still learning many things, it's great to have responses that are belittling.

I believe that the initial question I responded to said "you realize your breath is restricted to the point that you are unable to breathe at all".  So I made the assumption that I had stopped breathing, which I would assume any Top would be able to spot?  Is there a Top reading that that would not notice their bottom had stopped breathing entirely?  I am not talking about being able to trust my Top to monitor slight fluctations, I am talking about being able to trust a Top to spot that I had STOPPED BREATHING.



Smartass comments?  I was trying to come up with a hypothetical wherein most would agree you would tell the top regardless in whatever way you could and there wouldn't be any assumption that saving your life was "topping them".  In no way were my comments smartass, they were attempting to make the point of the question instead of gettting bogged down in details of the hypothetical.

Anyway, I give up, it's obvious this thread is going nowhere but the usual head in wall banging exercise.



Stephann -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 3:03:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

noooo he said the "a" word!


Who woulda thought abortion rights and safewords would garner equal amounts of virtual blood?

Hon. J. "The Body" Ventura




MadRabbit -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 3:19:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Hey if that kid wants to come back and toss some more insults he can feel free to.  I might even throw some back this time [:D]


Well...hey mom...you are more than welcome to quote me as to where I insulted you.

It might be a good idea...wouldn't want anyone to think you were making shit up and putting words in MY mouth or anything.

I would love to to see my vicious, childish ad homineum attacks againt you.

Your more than welcome to hold any beliefs you want. However, if you are going to come here and make absolute statements about things like "Safewords are commands and give control to the submissive" using silly contradictery logic that is completely inconsistent when applied beyond the narrow parameters you keep adamanently holding to out of sheer stubborness and insecurity of being at fault, well...hey...I'm going to make you look silly.

At this point, all your arguments have pretty much been proven invalid through the course of logical discussion and while might provide valid reason for your own little way in your own little Idaho, they hold exactly zero air or substance on the mantle of reality.

Your just pouting now and making the concious choice to keep your head lodged between your legs.

I fully support this concious choice and will continue to enjoy the amusement and entertainment of your continued masochism in this thread.



laurell3 -> RE: Safe words (11/15/2007 3:31:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: briska

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: briska

Direct response to the OP-

"No, Seriously - that hurts!" usually. More often than not, Sir will talk to me in japanese during a scene to constantly make sure I'm okay, but every once in a while I throw this one out there. ;)

Also, non-verbally a big RED is when i start to fall into my bonds - putting all my weight on the rope/cuffs rather than standing on my own. It's kind of like my body saying "Ok, I'm in subspace now, and my knees just buckled so you should probably take me down..." Of course, Sir and I have been together for a couple of years now, so (yes, roll your eyes if you must) He can see and has taken me down/stopped playing when this happens.




finger-snapping, items...my point is obviously in this situation providing that information is somewhat imperitive, does that somehow magically transform the sub into a top?  Of course not, it keeps you both safe and out of prison [8D]


I never said I had any qualms about being transformed to a top.  I'm just saying that's how he knows when I'm not speaking.  If i can't stand, how can I snap my fingers? Also, I can drop an item just by being hit a certain way, but that doesn't mean I need Him to stop playing with me.



Nevermind I was trying to come up with a hypo everyone can agree on, and the actual exact logistics aren't as important as the "topping" issue repeated in the thread.  I was not commenting to you personally about the topping issue. 

However, I can see some want to throw mud until the Mod shows up instead, so be it.



xoxi -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 3:37:11 PM)

Well since I have nothing better to do....

Here you insinuated that I live in my own world and have neither common sense nor logic:
quote:

Welcome to the World of XoXo, where common sense and logic and everything operates according to the rules and definitions that she is making up as she goes along with no regard to any possible parameters besides her own.


Here you claimed that when I said "they are equally a command" meant "they are both a command" that I had twisted my argument. Not quite sure how you got to that point, but you did.
quote:

I can't even come up with an argument anymore because you have twisted yourself up so much that I have no idea what your argument is anymore.


Here you assert that by continuing to defend my beliefs as valid rather than accept others putting words in my mouth I'm doing so simply out of stubbornness and ego:
quote:

Hey, your wounded ego and stubborneness aren't my problem.


Here you claim my beliefs are invalid:
quote:

At this point, this amounts to "I don't want to use safewords because I don't like them!" since there isn't a valid argument.


Here once again you say I'm illogical:
quote:

Not listening or refusing to accept logic will cause these kinds of thoughts.


Here you say that the only reason I believe what I believe is because I made up unrealistic rules:
quote:


Its easy to be right with your beliefs in this discussion if you make up the rules, but the rules you are making up aren't realistic.


Here you compare my defending my own opinion to claiming that an incorrect fact that can be objectively proven is correct:
quote:


You can believe whatever you want to. You can believe there is a moon made of green cheese. It still doesn't change the fact that your conjecture (or "beliefs") is/are flawed.


Here you once again ascribe some sort of ridiculous illogical view to me that I never once claimed to have:
quote:

In the word according to xoxi where tops are controlled by the magical power of the bottom's safeword, then we are all, in fact, enslaved and submissive to the magical power of the stop sign we confront everyday.


Although I suppose the only direct 'insults' by the strict definition of the term (as you seem the type who will deny the fact that you were being rude simply because there were no direct insults) were in your very first post to me when you called me narrow minded and said that defending my beliefs was pathetic:
quote:

Personally, if I had this narrow minded outlook that was being presented here, I would be annoyed at having to live under the constant tyranny of an inanimate road sign.

I've immensely enjoyed reading this discussion...but come on....

11 pages of watching you and Merc try and restrain this discussion to the narrow minded parameters of your own creations will exhaust anyone's patience.

Your just wrong.

Give it up.

Its pathetic at this point.


That's five whole minutes of my life I won't get back now [8D]  Fortunately my hair is drying and I've already checked my LJ so there's not much else to do.



xoxi -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 3:45:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Your more than welcome to hold any beliefs you want. However, if you are going to come here and make absolute statements about things like "Safewords are commands and give control to the submissive" using silly contradictery logic that is completely inconsistent when applied beyond the narrow parameters you keep adamanently holding to out of sheer stubborness and insecurity of being at fault, well...hey...I'm going to make you look silly.


Okay I'm going to give you a chance to actually use logic to prove me wrong rather than just snarky comments.  This is the simplified version of my argument:

1. From this point forward when I use the term 'safeword' I define it as a word that the top and bottom have agreed means a certain thing, and when said by the bottom, proscribes a particular course of action.

2. I find it irrelevant what the particular course of action is.  It can be anything from "listen to this information now" to "stop the scene" to "get me a glass of water."  The specifics of what response the safeword invokes is irrelevant - suffice it to say the safeword invokes a predetermined response.

3. When agreeing to use the safeword, the Top agrees that every single time the safeword is used, he will respond with the predetermined course of action as agreed upon at the beginning.

4. Therefore when the safeword is used, the Top is required to follow it.

5. The bottom is generally the one who says the safeword.

6. Therefore when the bottom uses the safeword, the top is required to obey the bottom and respond to the safeword.

If you wish to logically debate these points, please do.  Please don't bring up any other posts - this is the bare bones of the debate, this is the argument I subscribe to, this is what I believe. 

If you want to *logically* argue with this - do it.



MadRabbit -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 4:03:33 PM)

Lets take a minute to review some of xoxi's posts reflecting her maturity and open mindness on the subject.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

go fuck yourself. 


A perfect example of not hurling insults and just expressing viewpoints.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

I have no problem with people using safewords.  I've used them in the past.  I think they can be incredibly useful tools.  That doesn't change the fact that it's a command [;)]


Oh wow...look....

Thanks, hun.

I am glad its okay that I can use safewords to give control to my submissive according to the one true way of xoxi.

What is all the more amusing is that in the very next post...

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

You really didn't read what I said, did you?

I didn't say red=stop. 


Well, Christ....apparently we did read what you said in the previos post because I am pretty sure you said that a safeword did equate to a command absolutely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Maybe.  But my point wasn't that red=stop, my point was that red=stop=a command.  And I genuinely feel that if you replace 'stop' with 'let me tell you this now' it's still a command....the middle part is just a synonymous explanation of the term "red" - my premise could basically be construed as IF red=a command the Master must obey, THEN it means the Master's power is not absolute.  So you might be arguing against red=stop with Merc, but with me, you're arguing against red=a command.   I know that if you ordered your partner to use a safeword you wouldn't feel it was a command and I appreciate that viewpoint as valid. 



Okay...its all coming clear now. Red doesnt equate to stop. It equating to being a COMMAND that means stop.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Like I told Archer, you have every right not to share my viewpoint, but there's no reason to say it's not valid.  Your relationship is very different from my own and I respect that difference.  I was writing about my ideas, my relationship, and how I view safewords. 


Aww...okay...your only expressing your viewpoints and recognizing that there is other valid viewpoints...

Lets keep this sentiment in my mind....

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

You still constantly claim that A SAFEWORD IS UNIVERSALLY A COMMAND.


Yup.  Cuz that's what I believe.  In fact I'll go one step further and say that if a safeword is agreed to, it is not only a command but a command that must be followed if the Top has any sense of honor.



Okay so which is it?

Is there did different contexts and relationships in which safewords can be used without them being commands?

Or are they universally commands in the world according to xoxi?

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

And as long as we have come to the agreement that your arguments against safe limits, while perfectly fine f0r your style, have no actual validity for anyone else who choose to use safewords, then thank you.


Change that to "may or may not have actual validity for anyone else who choose to use safewords, based on that person's own values and ideas" then we'll agree.

I kinda like words to mean specifically what they mean and I'm sure as fuck not going to agree that my ideas are ONLY valid for me.  They're valid for anyone who subscribes to them.  Just like yours are.



This is interesting because I am sure right here you admitted that your viewpoints aren't valid....

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Okay. You win. My argument and motivations amount to squat in a big picture sense.


Oh wait...I get it...

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

But as far as the small picture goes, in that one little relationship between two people out of six billion in the world, my motivations mean quite a bit.  And really, that's all I care about...and all I was trying to say from the beginning.


They are valid when when you make up the rules and choose to ignore how completely unrealistic your logic is...

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi
The only difference is that you're saying I'm wrong and invalid, while I'm saying some people might see it as a command, other people might see it as not a command.  So if anyone's saying there's only one way to do things, it's certainly not me.


Huh...might want to read some of the above...

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

I just specified quite a few times that I was referring to safewords that must be followed according to the paradigm of the relationship.  If it doesn't apply, let it fly.



Okay so which is it? Can safewords can mean different things in different relationships..or....

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

You still constantly claim that A SAFEWORD IS UNIVERSALLY A COMMAND.



Yup


...are they universally a command that causes the dominant to submit to the will of the submissive in a universal sense?



subtee -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 4:06:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi


Okay I'm going to give you a chance to actually use logic to prove me wrong rather than just snarky comments.  This is the simplified version of my argument:

1. From this point forward when I use the term 'safeword' I define it as a word that the top and bottom have agreed means a certain thing, and when said by the bottom, proscribes a particular course of action. (Emphasis added.) Wrong. Don't even need to move to the rest because this is not correct.


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laurell3 -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 4:09:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi


Okay I'm going to give you a chance to actually use logic to prove me wrong rather than just snarky comments.  This is the simplified version of my argument:

1. From this point forward when I use the term 'safeword' I define it as a word that the top and bottom have agreed means a certain thing, and when said by the bottom, proscribes a particular course of action. (Emphasis added.) Wrong. Don't even need to move to the rest because this is not correct.


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[sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif]    I'm going to use this disclaimer on my faxes and see how long it takes for people to notice it, lol!



Mercnbeth -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 4:12:03 PM)

quote:

At this point, all your arguments have pretty much been proven invalid through the course of logical discussion and while might provide valid reason for your own little way in your own little Idaho, they hold exactly zero air or substance on the mantle of reality.

M.R,
"Proven invalid"? She's representing her relationship. You choose to call a specific aspect of it "invalid". Why is it so important that everyone be in step with you and the rest of the band regarding this position? She's made some good arguments and so have others on the other side. Even if someone has changed whatever they do in their relationship it doesn't, and shouldn't, invalidate anyone who doesn't.

She has conviction, confidence, and strength; and, unlike some, is speaking from being in a relationship. One thing you should keep in mind - it works for her, while in a relationship; something you seek to have someday. The use of safe-words and her Master's believe in their inappropriateness is between her and him. Having that position myself, I don't consider you the ultimate authority on its validity. Besides, its valid for them, for me, and while I'm at it. anyone who makes a decision to submit to me.

I'll stipulate that, having never met xoxi or her Master, she could be on-line only, never been with her Master in real time, and thinks a flogger requires batteries. For that matter, to you who never met us, beth can be a 250 pound bald guy. But she and her arguments aren't invalid just on your say so, or because other "what if's..." have been created. What if that were your slave?

quote:

11 pages of watching you and Merc try and restrain this discussion to the narrow minded parameters of your own creations will exhaust anyone's patience.
You said this 10 pages ago. Are you yet convinced that xoxi doesn't need or want to be "in step" in any "band"?

Being so sure and positive of your way - I would think that you wouldn't need 10 more pages to prove your argument is "valid" as compared to xoxi. Is it that important to convert?

Maybe once in a relationship you'd consider the perspective that anything that defines it makes it valid for at least as long as the relationship lasts. 

The combined efforts of Irish Mist and John make a lot of sense to me. Now I added a green hight-light and would comment that if it did it represents on some level a retention of scene dominance - but its not important and doesn't invalidate you or anyone else if they feel differently. I've read all the arguments and also will not get in step with the band.

quote:

A safe word is a wonderful tool to have. When used with a partner who is honest, and shows a willingness to help you evolve. If you are going to play with someone for the first time; HAVE A SAFE WORD that will stop play if things become too intense for you.
 
Over time your mutual understanding of a safe-word may evolve to become a source of information requiring immediate attention, rather than something that stops play.  Make sure that you both have the same understanding of what a safe-word means in your relationship or with your play partners.
 
However; you must also realize that not everyone is going to care about what you want. Not everyone is honest, safe, and wants to keep you safe. In these cases, a safe word will mean NOTHING because they will continue no matter what you say, how you act, if you are injured, hurt…etc. That is why it is important that you only play with someone WHO YOU KNOW AND TRUST with your life.
 
Now, for some, playing in a dungeon or at a play party with others present, it might not be that important that you get to know the person because there are others present. However, if you plan to be alone with someone… remember that you are placing your own life in the hands of this person.


Yet if someone entered into a relationship that works but doesn't follow any of the premises disclosed; it would not make it or their arguments in support, invalid.



xoxi -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 4:13:55 PM)

If a safeword doesn't proscribe a particular course of action then what does it do?

You can say that it's a signal - but I would say it's still a signal that must be responded to.

If it's a signal that can be responded to or ignored at the top's whim, I would argue it isn't very useful.  If the bottom says 'red' to signal "I have information" and the top replies "yeah, so? Keep your information to yourself, I don't want to hear it" then what good does it do?  How is that even a safeword?



subtee -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 4:20:25 PM)

 
quote:

One thing you should keep in mind - it works for her, while in a relationship; something you seek to have someday. The use of safe-words and her Master's believe in their inappropriateness is between her and him. Having that position myself, I don't consider you the ultimate authority on its validity. Besides, its valid for them, for me, and while I'm at it. anyone who makes a decision to submit to me.

I'll stipulate that, having never met xoxi or her Master, she could be on-line only, never been with her Master in real time, and thinks a flogger requires batteries.


Just to be clear, she has already stated that she has not met him yet.



MadRabbit -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 4:23:00 PM)

Okay...lets deal with these one at a time, babe....

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Well since I have nothing better to do....

Here you insinuated that I live in my own world and have neither common sense nor logic:
quote:

Welcome to the World of XoXo, where common sense and logic and everything operates according to the rules and definitions that she is making up as she goes along with no regard to any possible parameters besides her own.

 
I was insinuating that you were trying to shove this entire discussion along your rules and your parameters and not allowing room for anyone elses.
 
Not a personal insult. A synposis of your behavior.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi
Here you claimed that when I said "they are equally a command" meant "they are both a command" that I had twisted my argument. Not quite sure how you got to that point, but you did.
quote:

I can't even come up with an argument anymore because you have twisted yourself up so much that I have no idea what your argument is anymore.
.


Once again...not an insult. I am just stating that I have absolutely no idea what argument is. How did I reach this point? Read the post that proceeded this one

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi
Here you assert that by continuing to defend my beliefs as valid rather than accept others putting words in my mouth I'm doing so simply out of stubbornness and ego:
quote:

Hey, your wounded ego and stubborneness aren't my problem.


Not an insult. A conjecture that you were making arguments out of wounded ego and stubborness.

If your crying and I walk up to you and say "Hey, your crying and its not my problem.", would you consider me to be hurling grotesque attacks against your personal character?

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi
Here you claim my beliefs are invalid:
quote:

At this point, this amounts to "I don't want to use safewords because I don't like them!" since there isn't a valid argument.


So someone saying your wrong is an insult? Huh...

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi
Here once again you say I'm illogical:
quote:

Not listening or refusing to accept logic will cause these kinds of thoughts.


Now your putting words in my mouth. If I had said you were illogical, I probably would have said "You are an illogical person." I didnt say that. I said "You are not listening and refusing to accept logic" which means exactly what it says. Its a comment of what you are doing.

Perhaps if I walked up to you on the street and said "You walking to the mall", this would qualify as a gross and outrageous personal attack agaisnt you?

What about..."Hey...your breathing!"?

GASP!

quote:


Here you say that the only reason I believe what I believe is because I made up unrealistic rules:
quote:


Its easy to be right with your beliefs in this discussion if you make up the rules, but the rules you are making up aren't realistic.


Nope. Not what I am saying at all. I am saying you are trying to set the parameters for this discussion as being the only parameters and when someone does that and refuses to accept anyone else's, they are always going to be right and win the debate.

Once again...a comment about what you are doing.

"Your breathing!"

Oh...will the insults ever end?

quote:


Here you compare my defending my own opinion to claiming that an incorrect fact that can be objectively proven is correct:
quote:


You can believe whatever you want to. You can believe there is a moon made of green cheese. It still doesn't change the fact that your conjecture (or "beliefs") is/are flawed.


Are you actually reading anything I am writing or just putting words in my mouth?

I'm pretty sure what I said was just because you beleive in something doesnt mean the logic isnt flawed.

Scientology is a good example of this.

quote:


Here you once again ascribe some sort of ridiculous illogical view to me that I never once claimed to have:
quote:

In the word according to xoxi where tops are controlled by the magical power of the bottom's safeword, then we are all, in fact, enslaved and submissive to the magical power of the stop sign we confront everyday.


I'm getting tired. How about you explain to me how this one is a personal insult as opposed to just a strawman argument I made to communicate how silly I am finding the viewpoint?

quote:


Although I suppose the only direct 'insults' by the strict definition of the term (as you seem the type who will deny the fact that you were being rude simply because there were no direct insults) were in your very first post to me when you called me narrow minded and said that defending my beliefs was pathetic:
quote:

Personally, if I had this narrow minded outlook that was being presented here, I would be annoyed at having to live under the constant tyranny of an inanimate road sign.

I've immensely enjoyed reading this discussion...but come on....

11 pages of watching you and Merc try and restrain this discussion to the narrow minded parameters of your own creations will exhaust anyone's patience.

Your just wrong.

Give it up.

Its pathetic at this point.


A direct insult would have been "You are narrowminded".

Perhaps the direct insult is where I said you were wrong? Does a disagreement qualify as an insult to you?

quote:
That's five whole minutes of my life I won't get back now [8D]  Fortunately my hair is drying and I've already checked my LJ so there's not much else to do.



Yeah...what a waste.





MystressDream -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 4:24:28 PM)

Replying to nobody in particular here...
 
408 posts.... most of the last 100 from two people who have never actually had a real time relationship??
 
Ummmm... there is another thread going about the intellectual levels of people in this lifestyle.
 
Kind of ironic, don't you think??   <chuckle>
 
Hey people...... Ever hear the saying "Just agree to disagree"????
 
I'll return you to your regularly scheduled program now... may check back in a week and see how far it has progressed... just for the entertainment value.



subtee -> RE: What are words for? (11/15/2007 4:25:45 PM)

ORIGINAL: xoxi
quote:


If a safeword doesn't proscribe a particular course of action then what does it do?
Hopefully whatever the folks involved have agreed it would do. No guarantees though.

quote:

You can say that it's a signal - but I would say it's still a signal that must be responded to.
This is a leap I cannot make with you.
quote:

If it's a signal that can be responded to or ignored at the top's whim, I would argue it isn't very useful. 
Another leap. I'm not with you.
quote:

If the bottom says 'red' to signal "I have information" and the top replies "yeah, so? Keep your information to yourself, I don't want to hear it" then what good does it do?  How is that even a safeword?
Similarly, if the bottom says, "crickey! there's a croc chewing my ass" he could just as easily say "I don't want to hear it." However, if they have agreed, whether it be a safeword or the croc thing or simply saying, "sweet one, my vagina has ripped in two" it is a communication, not an imperative.




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