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The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 7:57:19 AM

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The Insanity of Bush Hatred

Our politics suffer when passions overcome reason and vitriol becomes virtue.
BY PETER BERKOWITZ
Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:01 a.m. EST

Hating the president is almost as old as the republic itself. The people, or various factions among them, have indulged in Clinton hatred, Reagan hatred, Nixon hatred, LBJ hatred, FDR hatred, Lincoln hatred, and John Adams hatred, to mention only the more extravagant hatreds that we Americans have conceived for our presidents.

But Bush hatred is different. It's not that this time members of the intellectual class have been swept away by passion and become votaries of anger and loathing. Alas, intellectuals have always been prone to employ their learning and fine words to whip up resentment and demonize the competition. Bush hatred, however, is distinguished by the pride intellectuals have taken in their hatred, openly endorsing it as a virtue and enthusiastically proclaiming that their hatred is not only a rational response to the president and his administration but a mark of good moral hygiene.

...

In short, Bush hatred is not a rational response to actual Bush perfidy. Rather, Bush hatred compels its progressive victims--who pride themselves on their sophistication and sensitivity to nuance--to reduce complicated events and multilayered issues to simple matters of good and evil. Like all hatred in politics, Bush hatred blinds to the other sides of the argument, and constrains the hater to see a monster instead of a political opponent.

I think the hatred that is so pervasive and accepted by the "progressive left" in America is one of the two threads in modern US politics that bodes ill for the republic.

The other, related thread is the wide acceptance of conspiratorial theories of government and history.

Firm

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 7:59:42 AM

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<snip>In short, Bush hatred is not a rational response to actual Bush perfidy.<snip>

Ja, it is.

Ron

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 8:28:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

In short, Bush hatred is not a rational response to actual Bush perfidy. Rather, Bush hatred compels its progressive victims*--who pride themselves on their sophistication and sensitivity to nuance--to reduce complicated events and multilayered issues to simple matters of good and evil. Like all hatred in politics, Bush hatred blinds to the other sides of the argument, and constrains the hater to see a monster instead of a political opponent.

*emphasis added

But to take our two most recent presidents: the "vitriol turned virtue" aimed at Clinton was due to a blowjob. A consensual blowjob. No victims there. However, I would suggest the the victims of "W" are those who have died and are still dying in Iraq and the families they leave behind. All because of this senseless evil war initiated with and still predicated on bullshit and lies. That is enough for me to label him a monster--not an opponent.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 8:45:28 AM

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Hatred of Bush and his administration is quite rational. The further east you travel the more the hatre4d and the more rational it becomes. Well, until Japan anyway.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:11:18 AM

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FR,

All the above post confirm the point of the article.

If you demonize your political opponents, isn't this dehumanizing them?

And isn't dehumanizing the first step to killing, rather than engaging in the political process?

Firm

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:15:45 AM

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If this is the case we have been killing political processes since the dawn of time.

Cyrus

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:22:57 AM

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The Bush haters and conspiracy theorists are referred to as Moonbats by folks on the Right.

I'm sure conservatives aren't ready to start lining them up along a wall, it's just that they have come to the conclusion that it's senseless to try and reason with them.

And there has been plenty of evidence on these threads to prove that.

< Message edited by eldervelvet -- 11/15/2007 9:28:42 AM >

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:28:48 AM

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and it may be why the folks on the left refer to bush and administration as criminals.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:29:40 AM

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they used to just take traitors out and shoot them. I would say its a pretty civilized response.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:31:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eldervelvet

The Bush haters and conspiracy theorists are referred to as Moonbats by folks on the Right.

thats what happens when you dont buy bushs conspiracy theory :)

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:33:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

FR,

All the above post confirm the point of the article.

If you demonize your political opponents, isn't this dehumanizing them?

And isn't dehumanizing the first step to killing, rather than engaging in the political process?

Firm

we can call it training in modern warfare for short.

How about an amendment against the use of weapons of mass delusion? (iraqi FREEDOM) LOL

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:35:49 AM

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Firm

I don't hate George W. Bush- I've never met the man. And hatred implies love- the two are flip sides of the same coin. However, I despise him for his actions to whit:
1) The pervasive rise of secrecy in this administration- especially around science. The Patriot act which, while passed by Congress- certainly had strong executive support, is a pernicious attack on our constituional freedoms and legal protections.
2) Condoning torture as evidenced by Abu Ghraib and Guantanomo. Harry Truman had a sign on his desk- the buck stops here. The buck doesn't seem to stop anywhere with this administration. With a democracy, we are all ultimately responsible for the actions of this administration, and I am furious that my tax dollars support torturers and murderers.
3) The cowboy diplomacy which has lead the US to invade a sovereign nation which posed no imminent threat to our security. Rather than taking responsibility for this action, there has been further demonizing of a large group of people in order to justify this hasty and ill conceived action. rather than focusing on the individuals responsible for criminal acts of wanton destruction.

I could go on, but I'm sure that there are plenty of well known reasons. However, to the point of your post- that hatred- not disagreement with the policies, but hatred of George W. Bush is becoming pervasive amongst liberals can be summarized in a few points as to the cause-
1) Condoning torture.
2) An anti-intellectual stance.
3) Enlisting the aid of religious conservatives.
4) Casting liberals or people with an anti-war viewpoint as unpatriotic.

Most policy decisions can be debated dispassionately. For example, the tax policies of this administration which have heavily favored the wealthy, do not really lead to a visceral response. Pro and con points can be enumerated without the sense that some moral boundary has been violated. The viewpoints of either side can be respected. However, condoning torture does lead to an inflamed and passionate response- as well it should. Condoning torture is not an attack on our wallets- it's an attack on our moral principles and the sacrifices of men and women throughout history to build a republic which would serve as a shining example to other nations.

Enlisting the aid of Christian demagogues is also an anathema to liberals, since it seems to violate the principle of the separation of church and state. While certainly individual religious beliefs can shape our political convictions, if this is done on an individual basis, it poses no threat to our constitution. However, when religious organizations began throwing organized political muscle around, this has the stink of crossing an ethical boundary- and thus is met with anger and derision from liberals. Coupled with George W. Bush's apparent anti-intellectual viewpoint- "I don't believe in evolution." this again seems like dirty pool from the neocon camp.

But perhaps the most hateful neocon tactic of all is the ad hominem aspersion that casts liberals as traitors. If a liberal tried to debate the validity of the Iraq war with a neocon, he or she is often branded as unpatriotic- or effectively calling someone a traitor. Having a democracy means that there are freedoms to express viewpoints, but castigating someone as a traitor implies that this freedom should be taken away from the person offering this viewpoint. Hence it stifles debate, and enrages people that are effectively being muzzled. What kind of democracy are we living in if by offering an opposing viewpoint, we are branded as traitors? Hence, there is real anger at the abuse of democratic principle to demonize liberals- this isn't an honest debate where there is mutual respect on both sides- this is a barroom brawl and emotions are running hot.

Does this help show the liberal viewpoint and why neocons are being met with anger by liberals?

Sam

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:39:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

If this is the case we have been killing political processes since the dawn of time.

Cyrus

Well, yeah, "Cyrus", "we" have been killing the political process since the dawn of time.

The British/American system of democracy, however, is based on a principle that a civil society can have segments that disagree about issue, but still get along without erupting into killing to solve those political conflict.

I think the Opinion piece and my comments are about the utter abrogation of that possibility (a "civil" dispute, even if heated, which recognizes the other sides essential humanity) by the "progressive" intellectual elite, the supposed torch bears for the "civil" approach to politics.

Firm

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:39:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
Does this help show the liberal viewpoint and why neocons are being met with anger by liberals?

I would add and libertarians and constitutionalists and independents!

Wouldnt want to leave them out :)

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to samboct)

RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:40:09 AM

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Why doesn't he actually cite any sources to support his hypothesis? There's some anecdotal evidence offered, but nothing to support his broad claims.

He doesn't even attribute the alleged statements made to anyone. I sort of understand his point, but choosing Bush to defend isn't the way to go about it.

That's very much like defending Hitler. You *might* have a good argument, but it's pointless to bother.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 11/15/2007 9:41:31 AM >

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:43:15 AM

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Ah! Of course... those of us who hate the Bush administration reduce things to their simpleist forms.... Unlike the President himself who utters such things as:

"You're either with us, or against us."
"We will be greeted as liberators."
"They are evildoers!"
"They hate us because of our freedoms!"
"Heck of a job, Brownie!"
"Saddam Hussein is trying to buy yellowcake Plutonium from Nigeria!" (paraphrased)
"We have to make sure that the next terrorist attack does not end in a mushroom cloud."
"If you want to prevent WWIII, we have to stop Iran."

Among many, many, many, many, many more...

Why do we "Moonbats" hate Bush? Oh, I dunno... the erosion of our civil liberties? The Iraq fuckup? The crippled economy? (now 9 trillion in debt) The FEMA/Katrina fiasco? His failed attempt at privatizing social security? Alberto Gonzalez's attempt to circumvent the Constitution in illegal wiretapping of americans? The fact that he and his family are in the pocket of the Saudi Roal family? The attempt at singling out gays as second class citizens via a proposed constitutional ammendment banning their equal rights? His support of "Intelligent Design" in high school science classes? The voter fraud commited by brother Jeb to get him in the white house?

Impeach the cheerleader... save the world.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:45:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
Does this help show the liberal viewpoint and why neocons are being met with anger by liberals?

I would add and libertarians and constitutionalists and independents!

Wouldnt want to leave them out :)

Don't forget the REAL CONSERVATIVES, to whom Bush and all his supporters are only Neocon Party Whores...

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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:51:20 AM

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quote:

Firm

The British/American system of democracy, however, is based on a principle that a civil society can have segments that disagree about issue, but still get along without erupting into killing to solve those political conflict.

That is not the case by a damn sight in these systems. Since all this is OpEd, I am not going to elucidate further on that. And do not suppose that I have failed to notice your slipping in the 'killing' of George W. Fuckweasel from aspirant poetry to fact. Perhaps you will explain this very point to George W. Bush the same man that waltzed us into the jaws of global conflict and is solving political conflict in Iraq via these lofty aspirations.

I call bullshit on the piece and the conclusions.

what bullshit rhetoric, now everyone should have some empathetic feelings for fuckwads, because it is the meat and potatoes of the political system, and why can't we get along? Well, you reap what you sow, that is about how it works, except politically, your cup will runneth over in the most venomous currency in kind.

Fuck that.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 9:55:38 AM

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sam,

Thanks for the detailed reply, and I do remember that thread of yours which addressed some of the same issues.

But you miss the point here, I think.

If you assume that the "other side" is evil, then you are removing the possibility that they have logical and sufficient reasons for their actions and decisions within their world view - even if you disapprove and disagree with those actions and decisions.

When you move the discussion (within the context of the political process) away from a good faith assumption of differing viewpoints, and start ascribing actions and policies to venal beliefs, you shut down the possibility to political compromise.

Once you shut down the possibility for political compromise and discussion, what options do you leave your opposition to engage and work with you? None.

This can start a cycle which could easily end up in violence and murder - all justified for the "greater good" of course. We have had many nations go down this path in the last couple of centuries.

The "progressive" and "liberal" branches of philosophy have always (in the past) been the side of the political equation that preached compassion, understanding of differing viewpoints, and acceptance of everyone's humanity.

Yet ... yet .... they are the very ones who are discarding all of these defining characteristics of "liberalism" today, and are embracing, supporting and encouraging the very opposite of what are suppose to be their core values.

And you, and they seen nothing wrong with this?

*scratches head*

Firm

PS. It would be good if anyone entering this discussion click the link and read the entire opinion piece. I quoted only three paragraphs of a much longer work.

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RE: The Insanity of Bush Hatred - 11/15/2007 10:02:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

Firm

The British/American system of democracy, however, is based on a principle that a civil society can have segments that disagree about issue, but still get along without erupting into killing to solve those political conflict.

That is not the case by a damn sight in these systems. Since all this is OpEd, I am not going to elucidate further on that. And do not suppose that I have failed to notice your slipping in the 'killing' of George W. Fuckweasel from aspirant poetry to fact. Perhaps you will explain this very point to George W. Bush the same man that waltzed us into the jaws of global conflict and is solving political conflict in Iraq via these lofty aspirations.

I call bullshit on the piece and the conclusions.

what bullshit rhetoric, now everyone should have some empathetic feelings for fuckwads, because it is the meat and potatoes of the political system, and why can't we get along? Well, you reap what you sow, that is about how it works, except politically, your cup will runneth over in the most venomous currency in kind.

Fuck that.

Call Bullshit all you want, but you've not made a cogent argument or taken an understandable position.

The last time, in the US, that the political process went down this road, we ended up with the Civil War.

We almost had such a breakdown during the 60s.

I am suggesting that we are on the road to a third one - and futher, that perhaps the "progressives" and "liberals" who are encouraging such a confrontation may find themselves on the wrong side of history this time.

Firm

PS. Did you even read the entire piece, or are you just blathering on based on a "fly by" of the three paragraphs that I quoted above?

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