RE: open for response until 7am est

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Kalista07 -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 4:01:22 PM)
Maybe it's just my own personal issues bleeding through here, but none the less.....It bothers me greatly that You knew her only "recent need" was to be loved and yet you couldn't show her that? It saddens me to think of how lonely Your life must be.....i, myself, am loved by various people who play various roles in my life (Most of them having NOTHING to do with BDSM)....... However, as an adult when i have a need, i additionally have a responsibility to ask for that need to be met...Not to pout and throw a temper tantrum like a three year old....However, if my Master EVER even dreamed of treating me either publicly (via these boards) or privately in even remotely a manner similar to the way You've treated her........We'd be done!! i say that not as a threat or a general statement, however as a reality........ i've always maintained that a Dom without a sub/slave is just a person who's dying to be in control...... Good luck to You and to Your left/right hand....Because it is truly my hope and my prayer that those are the only two who'll be stupid enough to even left you near them....... i agree with MadRabbit..... Kali

AquaticSub -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 4:02:55 PM)
So... why be mad at her? You trained her to behave that way by rewarding the behavior.

TwiztdErotic -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 4:10:49 PM)
quote: So... why be mad at her? You trained her to behave that way by rewarding the behavior. You have a point, although rewarding her was certainly not my intention.

Kaiynasha -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 4:12:29 PM)
Aquatic, I so agree with you, and this is why I said reflect and change the behavior through reinforcement and NOT punishment. And M/s or D/s is not simply about getting what you want. It is about you losing control and knowing it and sitting back and saying, "hmm." Then coming back and having what I call Talk Time and then start again. The behavior only changes when you change. The behavior only changes when you change your attitude and thinking about the situation.

AquaticSub -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 4:35:41 PM)
I believe it but that really doesn't change what happened. By making her do things when she acted out, you treated her and also taught her that in this particular dynamic this is acceptable behavior. You suddenly expected something completely different and when she behaved as you had trained her to, you got mad. In my particular relationship, we call each other goofy names that sometimes include cuss words because we find it amusing. Odd perhaps but there it is. One of my favorite names for him is "Twat Monkey". It makes him smile and gets him to laugh - these are rewards to me so I'm being "treated", which encourages me to continue to use the name. If he suddenly did a 180 and told me that it was completely disrespectful and stuck me in the corner for something that previously gotten me treats, I wouldn't react well. Puppies and dogs don't react well to suddenly being scolded for something that had always gotten them treats either. This is why training is tough on both ends. You have to make sure you are rewarding the right behaviors and you have to figure out what punishments/rewards are actually going to be effective in your particular situation. Things that will work as punishments for one person arouse or otherwise reward others.

MasterofScyn -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 4:38:02 PM)
This is funny to me.... Being woken up so early in the morning, then thrown into a corner for quiet time and to wake up fully.... Think I would be pissy too. Granted you threw her into the corner after she gave you some really good signs that she didn't want to be woken up. I hate mornings, specially hate mornings before the sun is even showing threw the window. Master lets me sleep if I tell him I need sleep, sometimes he'll wake me up in the middle of the night when he comes home from work, but hell he doesn't even like waking up before 7am. I think the reason people are being so off by the punishment is because it was right after she woke up. She clearly didn't want to wake up so early. Some people just simply don't like being woken up, I knew someone that would punch you if you woke him up.. People are just different when it comes to that. Waking up at the crack of dawn is something I depise doing, something I won't do if I can help it. (Which is why i'm trying to find a night job).. She's a person, not a puppy... You can pretend that she is a puppy, so can she, but in the end of it all, she is a human being. And well, just like dogs, every human is different. And no I didn't read all of this... only skimmed threw it.. Scyn ~

Morniel -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 4:45:33 PM)
Get a clue. TPE maybe, but TPE implies responsibility on the dominant/owner side. You certainly showed no responsibility, and definitely showed no caring. Hello? Her father (for whatever reason) is present in the home; that can put a damper on anything, let alone sex. And further HELLO? She has to be AT WORK today, yet you wake her up to have sex? What the hell kind of responsible master makes it hard for his submissive to maintain her job? If the situation is accurate as you describe it, then you're not a dominant or a master or an owner; you're a selfish, brainless, crybaby. If you've taken "total control" then you need to provide for her so she won't have to work -- so you CAN be inconsiderate and uncaring, and perhaps even harmful to her, by doing things like this. If you've taken "total control" then that means, hey guess what, you're also responsible for taking care of whatever relatives might be associated with her -- like the father with nowhere else to go.

fsub4use -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 4:48:11 PM)
i have a TPE - i care for my plants, water them, give them Miracle Gro, sunlight, attention, i pull out the weeds.... they give me oxygen and beauty and calm... but i must care for them. if i ignore their needs, they will droop and die. heck even a cactus needs water every now and then. just a thought.

TwiztdErotic -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 5:00:13 PM)
quote: And further HELLO? She has to be AT WORK today, yet you wake her up to have sex? What the hell kind of responsible master makes it hard for his submissive to maintain her job? Understand that by 5am she'd had 9 hours of sleep already, also that she didn't need to be in to work until 11.

laurell3 -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 5:11:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic quote: True, but the op obviously doesn't have a great deal of experience in picking good partners, or in how to have a healthy relationship that meets both people's needs. In fact he is clear on not caring if her needs are met or not as long as she does what she's told without him hearing about things that don't work for her. And that's not an attitude that successful partners in relationships have. It is an attitude that gets you left alone. Okay, I've already said that I don't have a whole lot of experience in TPE, but, I'm pretty sure that under those terms, her needs are unimportant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but TOTAL POWER EXCHANGE renders her powerless, strips her of all rights, and basically states that she is subject to the will of her Dominant. Meeting her needs is not a requirement. she knew what she was signing up for and knew whether or not her needs would be a priority. If she was intent on shoving a square peg into a round hole, so be it. Quite frankly, if something doesn't work for her, tough shit. Why should the Dominant bend to meet the submissive in a TPE relationship? They shouldn't. the submissive will either bend, or she will break. either course is just fine with me under those conditions. Sadism is an acceptable practice in this lifestyle, after all. As for my attitude resulting in me being left alone, that's fine with me as well. she's always known that she was free to leave this relationship if she didn't feel she could live up to what was expected of her. I certainly wasn't going to fight to keep her. Please, if you do not have experience in TPE or even fully understand what it entails, don't comment on the relationship. However, if you do have TPE experience then I'd be happy to hear from you. You are dangerous. This is the problem with your relationship, not her background or the fact that she has emotional problems, which I'm sure this relationship is probably making worse given your attitude. YOU have emotional problems if you truly believe that TPE means you can disregard her needs. Let me clue you into a simple fact, she's playing a puppy, she isn't actually one, she is a human being. If you lack the maturity to actually consider that regardless of role, she is a human being with needs/wants/desires/hopes, then just don't do it because you are the stereotype the vanilla world points at that makes the rest of us look like asses. The minute you stop treating her like an object that has no needs or rights and decide to get off your high horse and take the time TO fight to keep her and open your heart and realize caring for another human being isn't bending to them, is when she will start listening to you. I have no doubt she's "throwing fits", where would she have learned anything else? Your lack of depth, indifference, callousness and absolute cluelessness makes you a poor leader and does not give her anything to follow. Get a grip bud, the problem here is you.

Tigrita -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 5:31:14 PM)
Twiztd, let me ask you, do you think just any selfish, power hungry person can become a sucessful dominant and deserves a high-quality, obedient submissive? Your behavior indicates that this is your belief. It doesn't really fly when it comes to actually procuring a relationship and making it work. A dominant does in fact need to learn a few things, be empathetic, be willing to understand people, and does need to meet a submissive's needs. As mentioned, as a master, you become responsible for the well-being of another human. It doesn't sound like you've done much to earn your sumissive's trust and respect. Where exactly do you expect her motivation to serve to come from? For it to come solely from fear and insecurity would be very sad to most poeple here. And you stated bluntly 'why she saught a TPE relationship is beyond me"? Um, have you though about trying to understand why she saught a TPE relationship? That might make the relationship a lot more fulfillling for both of you. In my opinion, knowing what makes eachother tick is one of the most vital things to a relationship from the very begining. And about the punishment... I think the reason people have criticized your chioce of punishment, and your resort to punishment at all, is because you, yourself stated that it didn't work! Well, if it didn't work, then it must have been the wrong choice, eh? Some people respond well to a punishment dynamic, some, like myself don't. Just because it makes sense to you, and you have certain expectations of outcomes (waking her up, punishing her, ignoring her, whatever) doesn't mean that when pushed on a human being with complex psychology diferent from you and every other human being on the planet, that you will get the expected result. You have to work with a human being. The mindless, predictable, instantly programable robot slave does not exist. Training (with methods giving atention to her personal psychology), patience, and consent and fulfillment, are more effective ways to achieve mastering a deeply loyal and obedient submissive or slave. That and earning her respect to begin with, and you probably won't need to do a ton of training even.

MadRabbit -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 6:07:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 i agree with MadRabbit..... Kali Hey, don't pay any attention to me. I'm just here to start a pissing contest. I have no interest in pushing water up a hill with a guy who has been throwing up red flags since post #1.

SimplyMichael -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 6:45:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic quote: So... why be mad at her? You trained her to behave that way by rewarding the behavior. You have a point, although rewarding her was certainly not my intention. Okay guys, before the feeding frenzy starts and we rip the guys head off, he stepped up to the plate and has shown some humility. Anyone who can do that can grow and change. I don't really believe in TPE but but I have some talent as a dominant and you don't just grab some chick and start a D/s relationship. They are nurtured into life by the application of skill and time, two things you lack. You can learn but you can't leap into a race car and win. Stick around, MadRabbit is a kid too and a damn fine dominant although he has had his share of beatings here, you could learn a lot from him. Hell, even someone as arrogant as me reads his posts, sometimes even twice. That said, TPE, D/s or whatever fancy name you want to slap on it is about power but it isn't naked raw power, it is power that comes with and because of responsibility. You can act like some rich spoiled brat, throw your power around and ignore the destruction and emotional cost to those around you or you can act like noble high minded King Arthur. Which do want to be? I have a great deal of power in my personal relationship but I don't always get to exercise it, I could, but I choose not to. Why? Because I put her needs, her real needs before mine. Because my actions have consistently proven that I do that to her, when I ask for something that is hard for her, that pushes her, she strives to do it for me. When I put my needs before hers, she knows I weighed that decision, that I took OUR needs into consideration and that my choice is wise. Now before anyone things I manage this perfect, trust me, I screw it up all the time but I do better than most and sadly, that is pretty damn good. I sure hope to do better one day.

TwiztdErotic -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 6:57:55 PM)
quote: It doesn't sound like you've done much to earn your sumissive's trust and respect. Perhaps I wasn't quite clear that my current attitude towards her is a recent development. Recent being within the last week or so. Things were not always as they appear on this forum. In fact, even now, things aren't quite the way this thread would make them seem. In all honesty, what did I do that was so terribly wrong? I woke a slave up at 5 am for use. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I put her in a corner and ignored her when she was acting out. Again, there's nothing wrong with that. I looked to a forum for some suggestions, nothing wrong with that, either. The simple truth is that somewhere along the way I got tired of dealing with the same shit and stopped caring. As I've said, I should have left at that point and now I have. The arrangement between her and I has always been this: so long as she gives me an honest effort, I would do the same for her. If she wasn't giving an effort and making no progress, what point is there in continuing to give her what she needs? Long story short, I got tired of beating a dead horse and became a little bit cold and insensitive, but was I dangerous? certainly not.

TwiztdErotic -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 7:39:07 PM)
Well, here's a post she has just made to one of her online journals, perhaps seeing things from her point of view will help to gain a better understanding of the situation. quote: For some slaves/subs it is very easy to follow. Even if it means to do so blindly. For me, it is not. For this reason I tend to run into the same blocked pathways. Taking time to think about things and to consider my behavior and the reasons as to why, as helped me better understand myself. I strongly feel in order to get what I want, desire to give and crave, I need to understand the things that are difficult for me. TPE is something that is very, very hard for me to proceed with. Though the kink of D/s (M/s) is exciting, it is not my motivator or my reason as to why I want it, or why I press for it when it obviously is not working at that current time. There are things I need to come to terms with as an individual, and one of them is to let go. It is very hard for me, after all these years of fighting serious emotional and physical battles alone, to not feel as if I am an island. At heart. i don't much feel like I am an island, and without a support system of some kind (a boyfriend, a Master, a friend) i would fall apart at the seams and never be able to proceed with the fight. I put up this childish wall in order to get through the motions of life. This has worked for me to a certain extent, especially in the vanilla world. In D/s and TPE you don't choose the experience or the emotions your Master invokes or ask from you. This is so hard for me to understand and even allow. Though it is TPE, i essentially have control over what I give and the cause and effect of my endeavors. But the question I often ask myself is if being owned is what I desire, why then is it so hard for me to come to terms with being completely owned? pondering this question there are only a few answer I can find. One being that when push comes to shove, I am insecure about myself, and being insecure makes me feel unstable about the place I may or may not hold in my Master's eyes. as a result I feel that no matter how much I give, or how much I honestly care or love, in the end I will just be thrown away and never looked at as a diamond in the rough, or anything worth keeping. years and years of abuse as a child has had this affect on me. this is something I am fully aware of. No matter how much or how hard I try (even for myself), I never feel like I am doing a good job, or as if I am completely the task of succeeding. failure scares me to a point of failing, if that makes any sense. I understand it is unfiar of me to ask anyone Dominant or not to put their life or needs on hold in order to babysit my emotions. I don't think I would be up for the challenge of dealing with a person like me and my emotional issues, if the shoe was on the other foot. the sad thing here about this entire situation is that I cannot change the outcome of any D/s relationship I have, until I change the outcome of myself. as a result I will lose things and people and feel empty to a degree, but I know that i have to work on myself before I can enter into anything concerning TPE. However, i feel that D/s shouldn't be completely taken out of my life while I make the efforts to change and grow. I strongly feel that I could grow even more through the guidance of a Dom. I have thus far. If it was never for D/s I would have never felt the emotions I have the provoked me to step outside myself, and see what needs to be fixed. D/s has taught me respect, patience, perserverance, love, depth, selflessness, the ability to try and push myself even when I think I am at my limit, and most important of all it has taught me about myself and through it i have discovered myself and have found a portion of my identity. Perhaps starting out as a subbie and taking it slowly, instead of giving it all at once and getting scared away and pulling back, will help me with all aspects of my life. One thing I know for certain and that is that I crave, want, desire and need a helping, loving, Dominant hand to guide me and tell me when I am being an idiot. Often, I am blinded by my own arrogance and ignorance and often I cannot see past it.

laurell3 -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 7:43:49 PM)
Could you possibly be any more inappropriate?

TwiztdErotic -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 7:44:51 PM)
wtf? inappropriate? If you're referring to me posting that entry, I asked her if she minded before I did so.

SimplyMichael -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 8:25:05 PM)
quote: I am insecure about myself, and being insecure makes me feel unstable about the place *I may or may not hold in my Master's eyes. as a result I feel that no matter how much I give, or how much I honestly care or love, in the end I will just be thrown away* and never looked at as a diamond in the rough, or anything worth keeping. And until you can fix/deal/work around the above, you will never have the TPE or even the submissive you want.

dawntreader -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 8:43:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic one last thing, for all of you bastards who wished me ill..you'll be happy to know that upon coming home and attempting to finish up hour number two, she puked all over me after 20 minutes. Oh good grief![sm=boohoo.gif]

Aceton -> RE: open for response until 7am est (11/26/2007 8:58:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic Okay, I've already said that I don't have a whole lot of experience in TPE, but, I'm pretty sure that under those terms, her needs are unimportant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but TOTAL POWER EXCHANGE renders her powerless, strips her of all rights, and basically states that she is subject to the will of her Dominant. Meeting her needs is not a requirement. she knew what she was signing up for and knew whether or not her needs would be a priority. Do you understand the word "needs"? Do we need to get out a dictionairy for you? Whether you have a TPE or not, a need is a need. You can't ignore it, or things go south. Sorry, but you sound like a horrible, horrible Dom. You didn't give a damn about her, and she rebelled. TPE isn't an excuse to be a selfish asshole. TPE isn't a way to get some bitch to suck your dick and not have to worry about her. Do you really think that women want TPE relationships so some little dicked asswipe can use them and not give a damn about them? People's needs are ALWAYS important. Quit trying to make a human being fit a fantasy.

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