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RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 7:38:42 AM

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From: Kentucky
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I think the OP did the right thing. If someone invites me out, I expect it to be on their nickle unless we agree ahead of time that we will go dutch. In the same vein, I will pay if I extend the invitation. If I was told we were going somewhere, that expectation holds even more true.

As adults both working for a living and having financial obligations, it is only fair to be considerate about distributing the expense of a relationship between both partners as equally as possible.

The assertion that the OP is whoring her submission out to him if she expects to be treated to drinks or a meal is ludicrous. Just as absurd would be to say the dom is whoring his dominance out to her by accepting her "payment" of free home cooked meals.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 7:39:20 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

So basically you're a whore and he needs to pay for your time. Because ultimately that is what you're saying. He needs to shell out the dollars to take you somewhere. LOL. Ironic that you want him to take on an expense that you yourself won't take on. You say that you happily want him to take control but when he does it, you cry foul. And yes, telling you to pay for your own drinks is still controlling the situation. Maybe you should try dating a submissive man if you don't want to pay you own way?

Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed? No disrespect intended, but golly MrDiscipline, if she were a whore she wouldn't be out with a cheap bastard like him now would she?

girly

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 7:39:26 AM

SeekingMyrmidon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The compatibility regarding the issue of finances is no less a consideration than compatibility regarding which end of the flogger preferred.

Beautifully stated!

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RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 7:40:00 AM

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quote:

Opinions ????

Welllllllllll

I would have turned the drink onto him and then smashed the glass against his head before turning away and walking home.

But that's just me

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(in reply to kails)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 7:44:23 AM

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well, I can see a point to a dom expecting financial input from a sub. I can also see that maybe you both should buy drinks and both pay for dinner. Not my way of doing things, but it works for some.

However, it seems to me that if someone invites another to the pub, the first round at least should be paid for by the person doing the inviting.

Moreover, I would have expected him to say that he expected you to pay half when out drinking etc. at the outset and to have at least offered to pay towards the meals you prepared. 'what's good for the goose, is good for the gander'

I trust you sent him a bill for the meals

(in reply to Sabella)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 7:55:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kails

I can see arguments happening on both sides for this one.

Ok, Im playing with this Dom. He's been fed several meals by me, out of my cupboard. Fine, cosy in fact.

Then he tells me we are going to a pub. We get there, he gives me the amount for his drink and tells me to get it.

I purchase the drink, take it over to him, give him his 5 cents change, turn around, leave the pub and do the 1 1/2 hour walk home. He states later that he does not believe paying for my drink is part of D/s.

Im interested to see what others views are on this. My view is ... I did not have a choice about going to a pub, i give full control over to the Dom. But damned if Im gonna go dutch when we go out. Especially considering control is expected and happily given at all times, no matter where we are.

Opinions ????

Well, I was gonna say what about common curtsey while you're seeing someone? (you fed him several times...it's his turn to treat.), but then you dropped the comment: "i give full control over to the Dom"...so this WAS a D/s play-date of sorts.

So...while I always go 'Dutch' while getting to know each other, I can see where some believe the sub should pay...once you're into an actual D/s relationship; though generally, I'd say that is male subs (even in the D/s world, people are aware men make more than women...and besides, many (but not all) Dominas require 'tribute'.)

Having said that, I still think that since you'd fed him several times, he's pretty cheap not to have treated you!

Those who would suggest you are a whore don't seem to have a handle on the meaning of the word. Sheeshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm with those who believe in chivalry and good manners, regardless of the situation.

Beverly

edited for clarity

< Message edited by MsBearlee -- 12/4/2007 8:02:20 AM >

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(in reply to kails)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 8:09:23 AM

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We are talking about a DRINK here, not a comitment to buy property. The guy is just a cheap ass, pure and simple.

Jeff
(makes a note to pay for Mist's drinks)

(in reply to MsBearlee)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 8:10:17 AM

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I would think that if you are contemplating asking the wench to tongue your touchhole in the wee hours, buying her a beer is not unseemly.

Ron

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(in reply to MsBearlee)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 8:14:46 AM

Koala

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I, as someone not interested in TPE, do not view finances as part of play. In my mind, a BDSM relationship is still a relationship, and we are equal partners in each decision. As for going out to a pub, I'm old fashioned in that I will insist on paying - it's only gentlemanly. If she insists on going dutch, then she'll just have to make it up to me later.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 8:15:54 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

We are talking about a DRINK here, not a comitment to buy property. The guy is just a cheap ass, pure and simple.

Jeff
(makes a note to pay for Mist's drinks)

/sigh

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff

/shakes head no

You are missing the whole point here. It is NOT just about a drink. It's about the attitude that he protrayed over the thought of paying for her drink.

Get it right bud lol.

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RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 8:17:44 AM

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LOL.I got the point....I just have a hard time believing it

Jeff

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 9:00:39 AM

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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

So basically you're a whore and he needs to pay for your time. Because ultimately that is what you're saying. He needs to shell out the dollars to take you somewhere. LOL. Ironic that you want him to take on an expense that you yourself won't take on. You say that you happily want him to take control but when he does it, you cry foul. And yes, telling you to pay for your own drinks is still controlling the situation. Maybe you should try dating a submissive man if you don't want to pay you own way?

No, she's saying he's a freeloader. She's on a limited budget and has been spending her hard earned dollars on his food on several occasions, yet he won't buy her even a single drink.

Or is she supposed to be unable to pay rent because she's using all her money on him?

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(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 9:11:23 AM

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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Bonus points to the OP for walking!

I cannot abide cheapness. I have had (submissive) men tell me that to control the orgasm is to control the man, but no, I fully believe that the wallet is the last bastion of male control. How many sub males have not even offered to pay for my coffee on the first meet? Plenty. And no, they do not get called back! I'm not sure if it's some kind of anti-feminist backlash, or what, but the whole idea of hospitality and reciprocity has gone out the window when it comes to courting. Well, courting seems to have evaporated too, but that's a whole other rant!

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RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 3:11:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

Well, I was gonna say what about common curtsey while you're seeing someone? (you fed him several times...it's his turn to treat.), but then you dropped the comment: "i give full control over to the Dom"...so this WAS a D/s play-date of sorts.

That part doesn't seem clear to me Bearlee. First she said she was playing with a dominant and that to me does not indicate that there has been authority transferred. Then she said that she has given full control over to him. But it seems more like full control unless you make a decision that I don't agree with like not paying for my drink.

Is he cheap? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think we have enough information about his life to make that determination. The only thing that seems clear is that there is a mismatch of expectations on who pays for what when play partners go out to a pub.

Knight's Kyra

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(in reply to MsBearlee)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 3:17:53 PM

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Well, you have a good point there, Kyra, but I think we've arrived at different conclusions. Still, that we don't have 'enough information' is quite clear...the whole affair could be pixels in the wind. <shrugs> Based on what I read...he's not my kinda guy.

"I would think that if you are contemplating asking the wench to tongue your touchhole in the wee hours, buying her a beer is not unseemly. " Priceless!!!

B

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RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 3:25:59 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kails
Then he tells me we are going to a pub. We get there, he gives me the amount for his drink and tells me to get it.

Seems to me that he ought to have negotiated about the financial aspects of your relationship. In any case it is bad manners to command someone to go to a pub and then expect them to pay their own way.

(in reply to kails)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 3:28:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Bonus points to the OP for walking!

I cannot abide cheapness. I have had (submissive) men tell me that to control the orgasm is to control the man, but no, I fully believe that the wallet is the last bastion of male control. How many sub males have not even offered to pay for my coffee on the first meet? Plenty. And no, they do not get called back! I'm not sure if it's some kind of anti-feminist backlash, or what, but the whole idea of hospitality and reciprocity has gone out the window when it comes to courting. Well, courting seems to have evaporated too, but that's a whole other rant!

on a first meet, i expect to pay for my own whatever. if he offers, that's lovely. then again, meeting at mcdonalds, and getting a drink and fries isnt that much.

if a couple is on a "date"? even a D/s date, i'd expect the one to do the asking to do the paying. if she asked, she pays. if he asked, he pays. if its to be dutch...discuss it beforehand.

kitten, who is practical.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 4:03:54 PM

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From: St George Utah
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I have been offboard for a few weeks and someone e-mails this Thread to me and asks what do you think.

I am a Paying person, I Perfer to pay that way there is no hard feelings no matter what, I got thier company and they got food fair split,

I have read all the relpies and that being said I agree with MrDiscipline44. But not for the same reasons.

The girl EXPECTED ANYTHING. That was the first wrong. To expect something for anyone is to expect that they will do as you think they should do. It was not up to her if he paid. Before we were wed my wife would ask me if she needed to bring money on every date, because she did not know if I was able to afford both of us or not, I invited her to many places and as I said I Always Paid, but she asked everytime we went anywhere.

Also a LOT of you are commenting on this Dom and you don't know him and you have only one side of this story, perhaps this girl expects to always be taken care up and paid for, this expectation needs to be delt with as it is not what he desires and so he gets into a situation where her expectations are NOT met and she walks out. In a D/s relationship not all of either parties expectations will always be met, some people have too many other people have unrealistic ones, the Point is as I read what the OP has said I see that she feels that there are expectations to her surrender of control she says so right here.

quote:

I did not have a choice about going to a pub, i give full control over to the Dom. But damned if Im gonna go dutch when we go out. Especially considering control is expected and happily given at all times, no matter where we are.

The part I underlined says it all she is only willing to give full control, however is not willing to pay for herself when they go out therefore said surrender comes with an expectation and therefore is not FULL CONTROL.

I think the OP should have asked if she needed to bring any money and if he said yes and she was unwilling to pay then she would have saved herself the walk. I am more concerned that she put herself in further risk by walking home unaccompanied then I am that she was not willing to pay for her own drink, That walk could have cost her her life, I would have sat and watched him drink his drink and then would have asked "Should I ask if I need to bring money when we go out in the future, or will you always expect for me to pay for myself? As since you invited me I did not bring any money and, if I knew I was going to have to pay I would have asked to decline as I am unable to afford such a night out." Now this saves face and shows the Dominant where she stands, perhaps we will realize that her not having money and out at a pub is a little unfair and would have bought her a round or two, but then the baseline would have been established and both parties would know where they stand.

In the end she is at falt for putting herself in the situation to begin with.

As Always

Steel

**Returning to the Otherside and other forums**

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RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 4:20:00 PM

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From: Kentucky
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Yeah, you're right... she's definitely at fault here. It's so clear now, I can't imagine how all the other submissives and dominants who've commented here missed this one so completely. Most of all, I can't believe I forgot the most basic tenant of being a sub... that the submissive is always to take the lead in planning and communicating. We all know that dominants have no responsibility to consider anyone other than themselves. They can't be blamed for thinking only of what they want... the submissive is supposed to think ahead and never expect her dominant to be responsible for her well being and comfort. Hell, dominants aren't suppose to be expected to do anything or be responsible for anything. Sheesh... I need to remember that, next time.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: Going dutch - 12/4/2007 4:27:58 PM

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You made up your mind on this Dominant knowing nothing about him and now you are making up your mind about me without seeing the POINT in what I said you went a LONG way awat from what I said to get where you did.

As far as I can tell frtom what she wrote she is just playing with this Dom, she is not owned by him, Second she has cooked for him yet it would seem this is thier first time going out, as it would appear anyway because she was unaware of his not paying issue.

What I am saying is she is looking for someone to blame OTHER than herself and that is wrong. If she is not owned by him then she needs to make sure of what she is doing and in this situation she did not, If she is owned by him then how is it she did not know this already.

I don't want to call the guy cheap because he isn't willing to pay her way. Where in the Dom/sub Guidebook does it say the Dom pays for everything?

This will be a lesson in the school of hard knocks next time I bet she will ask if she needs to bring money.

My Main point is she EXPECTED something from the Dom and in that she implied control. She assumed he would pay and she made an ass out of both of them.

As Always

Steel

Edited to add: It's 2007 and women everywhere are asking for equality, why should anyone assume someone else is paying for them, how hard is it to open your mouth and ask the damn question?

< Message edited by SteelofUtah -- 12/4/2007 4:29:51 PM >

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