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RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/6/2008 8:40:44 AM   
oliderid


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< Message edited by oliderid -- 1/6/2008 8:46:04 AM >

(in reply to backseatbebe)
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RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/6/2008 8:42:24 AM   
oliderid


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- sorry got some problems with my browser :-(


< Message edited by oliderid -- 1/6/2008 8:45:44 AM >

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RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/6/2008 8:43:30 AM   
oliderid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: backseatbebe
do you think playboy should recall all of its magazines when a "bunny" decides later in life shes wants to become a teacher?


I'm not experienced with D/S relationship (more into plain top/bottom things) but it looks to me that this relationship (at the end of it) was heavily influenced by the fear she had of this so-called master. Just primal fear and nothing else.
It looks more like a heavily abused psychologically damaged victim than a playboy bunny to me.
I hope she will have an opportunity to rebuild herself now.

(in reply to oliderid)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/6/2008 8:44:39 AM   
oliderid


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(in reply to oliderid)
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RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/6/2008 9:20:57 AM   
rook42


Posts: 110
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The only source we have for that primal fear is her testimony, though. If a girl came around and said she had a primal fear of Hugh Hefner(cute and huggable though he is), and that was why she continued within her contract... A jury wouldnt blink twice at throwing the case away, without supporting evidence.

Now, it's fully possible that she was abused, but only plausible by her own account. As far as sufficient data goes, this is not enough for us to get on our high horses and start screaming "ABUSE". IF he continued with these activities after she withdrew consent, then it was a horrible thing- that's the only thing that we know, unless there is other evidence that I am not privy to.

In all honesty, how would anyone feel if a consensual bottom came forward screaming, "He/she beat me!". Juries are unlikely to look favorably on it- again, there is only the testimony of the victim to infer nonconsent. The legality or safety of the activity in question has no bearing on consent: in my state, anal sex is illegal, and many physicians consider it to be an unsafe practice.

The issues we really have here are consent, the distribution of licensed photographs(unless he really did threaten to mail them to the board of education- again dependent on only the testimony of the victim), and the traits of the activities themselves. The only real issue here is consent, as the obscenity of SM is probably moot to most here.

Just my two cents... A column for crimes and column for evidence might help to visualize this. The story is quite horrific, but we dont have enough sources. This message is probably open to edit, in case some other information pops up in my googling :P

(in reply to oliderid)
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RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/6/2008 1:00:29 PM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: backseatbebe

do you think playboy should recall all of its magazines when a "bunny" decides later in life shes wants to become a teacher?


This isn't a published magazine. It's a website and the photos are easy to yank down. Now, I think it would be tacky if Playboy continued to use those photos in future issues, yes.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to backseatbebe)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/6/2008 3:23:50 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

I think many here seem to be missing the point that you will never make the justice system and society accept that level of hardcore play.   It makes no difference whether she cried wolf or was truly unwilling.  The acts are criminal regardless and I again disagree with Alumbardo's contention that they are not or that the defendant has a succesful ineffective assistance of counsel appeal.  I cannot see where there is any exculpatory nature in the things discussed here that would change the fact that these acts are not legal and ineffective assistance of counsel has to actually have a great probability of changing the results to be a successful appeal.



Where the hell do you get off lying and claiming that I said that rape and kidnap are not criminal acts?

I also cast doubt on someone else's claims to have proof of innocence which the defense conspired to help the prosecution conceal,  by pointing out that if something that outrageous were true, this man would have used the obvious grounds for appeal

You are a really dishonest piece of work.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 1/6/2008 3:40:39 PM >

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/7/2008 9:10:46 AM   
backseatbebe


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great responce rook
very well balanced

and alumbrado he was not charged with rape or kidnapping so why defend something that has nothing to do with the topic

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/7/2008 12:13:26 PM   
Alumbrado


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Holding someone against their will and forcing them to have sex is criminal, whether the charges are pled down or not.  And that was the OP to which I replied. Did you bother to read it before declaring that it had nothing to with the topic?

quote:

Glenn Marcus, 53, was found guilty in March in Brooklyn federal court of sex trafficking and forced labor. He was acquitted of obscenity.
Using graphic photos of the bound and beaten victim, prosecutors had argued that Marcus crossed the boundaries of both civilized society and the S&M community by holding her against her will.


AND:

He stuffed a whiffle ball inside her mouth, shut her lips with surgical needles, and placed a hood over her head before whipping her with a cane and having sex with her. He then handcuffed her to a flat board and continued to brutalize her.




(in reply to backseatbebe)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/7/2008 1:13:17 PM   
slavegirljoy


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She wasn't held against her will and he didn't 'plea down' charges of kidnapping.  He was never charged with kidnapping.  He was charged with 3 counts, all related to his website, slavespace.com, and based on statements made by one of his former slaves.  The charges were, sex traffickingforced labor, and obsenity.  He was acquitted of the obsenity charge.
 
He was offered a plea, with no jail time, and turned it down.
 
In 1998, she begged him to serve him, "with no limitations."  "I am begging to serve you Sir, completely, with no limitations." 
 
She consented to the BDSM that they engaged in and to the pictures that he took of her and posted on his website.
 
One of her duties, as his slave, was to work on the website.  When she failed to complete a task, he punished her, as Masters are apt to do to their slaves.
 
In 2001, she left the relationship.  He didn't stop her from leaving or hold her there against her will and she continued to visit him, occasionally and of her own free will, for another 2 years, afterward. 
 
Did you read any of the news articles about this case? 
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-23-sm-on-trial_x.htm

http://www.villagevoice.com/people/0712,taormino,76097,24.html

http://www.news.com/Police-Blotter-Bondage-Webmaster-fights-abuse-conviction/2100-1030_3-6185920.html?tag=item

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Holding someone against their will and forcing them to have sex is criminal, whether the charges are pled down or not.  And that was the OP to which I replied. Did you bother to read it before declaring that it had nothing to with the topic?

quote:

Glenn Marcus, 53, was found guilty in March in Brooklyn federal court of sex trafficking and forced labor. He was acquitted of obscenity.
Using graphic photos of the bound and beaten victim, prosecutors had argued that Marcus crossed the boundaries of both civilized society and the S&M community by holding her against her will.


AND:

He stuffed a whiffle ball inside her mouth, shut her lips with surgical needles, and placed a hood over her head before whipping her with a cane and having sex with her. He then handcuffed her to a flat board and continued to brutalize her.





(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/7/2008 3:35:50 PM   
Alumbrado


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Are you deliberately being obtuse?  There are no news articles about the posts to which I replied, and my replies were specific to the actions described in those posts.
Those actions, as written, constituted rape and some variation of kidnapping.

And in this case, third party claims that she really didn't mean it when she said it was non-consensual, ring a little hollow.

I am disappointed, but not surprised, that anyone here wants to go on record as defending the notion of non- consensual rape and kidnapping as part of WIITWD. 

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/7/2008 5:58:03 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

I am disappointed, but not surprised, that anyone here wants to go on record as defending the notion of non- consensual rape and kidnapping as part of WIITWD. 


Yeah, no shit. I thought how far a "No Limits" thread would go around here was silly enough, but some of the replies here...fucking WOW!

I guess some people will go to the ends of the earth, shed away all common sense, and defend completely outrageous treatment of another human being to keep the fantasy of "consent to non-consent" slavery from being shattered.

Since one of the arguments commonly used in defense of "no rights and no limits slavery" is that "bad things never happened", I hope all the slaves proclaiming to have no rights and no limits read this three times over.





_____________________________

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The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/7/2008 6:32:47 PM   
slavegirljoy


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From: North Carolina, USA
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No, i'm not "deliberately being obtuse." Are you deliberately misrepresenting the facts of this case, as was reported in the different news publications or deliberately reading things into the OP that aren't there?
 
Just in case you didn't read the OP, here is what the article stated.

The Associated Press
Published: September 7, 2007

NEW YORK: A man dubbed an "S&M Svengali" by the tabloids was sentenced to nine years in prison Friday for abusing a woman he photographed for his sadomasochism Web site.

Glenn Marcus, 53, was found guilty in March in Brooklyn federal court of sex trafficking and forced labor. He was acquitted of obscenity.

Using graphic photos of the bound and beaten victim, prosecutors had argued that Marcus crossed the boundaries of both civilized society and the S&M community by holding her against her will.

Jurors heard the victim describe how, after meeting Marcus over the Internet in 1998 and agreeing to become one of his "slaves," he systematically degraded her by shaving her head, branding the initial "G" on her buttocks and carving "Slave" on her stomach during liaisons in homes in Maryland, Washington, D.C., New York City and on suburban Long Island.

The defense had argued Marcus and the victim had a "contract" to engage in a master-slave relationship. While potentially offensive to the general public, the defense said it was consensual and even pleasurable to the participants.

There is no mention of kidnapping or rape or her being held against her will.  The links to the other news articles are directly related to the OP.  It's the same case, reported in different publications and all stating the same information.  If you had read any of them you would know that there were no charges of kidnapping, rape, assault or anything other than the forced labor, sex trafficking and obscenity.
 
The 'victim' was someone who voluntarily sought out a Master-slave relationship with this man and she remained in this relationship for 3 years.  They engaged in BDSM during the course of the relationship and he took pictures of her and posted them on his website, which she helped to maintain.  
 
The relationship ended and he didn't keep her in it against her will.  She left.  She didn't go to the cops.  She voluntarily continued to see him and spend time with him over the following 2 years after the relationship ended. 
 
She asked him to remove her pictures from his website and he refused.  That's when she went to the feds. 
 
i'm not defending anyone.  And, i'm certainly not defending the "notion of non-consensual rape and kidnapping" as a part of anything.   i'm stating what took place, according to multiple news accounts.  And, nowhere in any of these news reports is there one word about him kidnapping her or raping her or holding her against her will.
 
Why not stick to what the record states about this case, instead of inserting false information?
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Are you deliberately being obtuse?  There are no news articles about the posts to which I replied, and my replies were specific to the actions described in those posts.
Those actions, as written, constituted rape and some variation of kidnapping.

And in this case, third party claims that she really didn't mean it when she said it was non-consensual, ring a little hollow.

I am disappointed, but not surprised, that anyone here wants to go on record as defending the notion of non- consensual rape and kidnapping as part of WIITWD. 

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/7/2008 7:50:15 PM   
meesekite


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Alumbro, you wrote: "And in this case, third party claims that she really didn't mean it when she said it was non-consensual, ring a little hollow". I didnt say "she really didnt mean it when she said it was non consensual". I said she LIED, which is far more than "she didnt mean it". I spoke to Jodi, before she claimed it was non consensual and after she told the court it was...in 1998, 1999, and 2003. Thats why and how I base what I say...as my CLAIM is made from speaking WITH HER. And, the defense in my opinion did a horrid job...recall, as a friend of Glenn's I know so much of what was NOT made PUBLIC (which I cant share)...and if Maurice had used all the information he was provided with, verifiable information no less, the jury would have I am sure reached a different verdict...or not, if they insisted on being biased as I feel they were. Alumbro, you then write "I am disappointed, but not surprised, that anyone here wants to go on record as defending the notion of non- consensual rape and kidnapping as part of WIITWD. NO one here is doing that....as Glenn Marcus didnt rape anyone, nor was he charged with rape, assault, or kidnapping.

IF the FBI / prosecutors thought they could get away with it, dont you think they would have? They wanted sex trafficking, for their own use, to expand that statute. Same with forced labor. As I mentioned this case made legal history...as now those two statutes CAN be used in a domestic relationship. It was the FIRST time these statutes had been used in that manner. I think they were very dissapointed they didnt get the obscenity conviction...but I think even the jury thought the govt expert witness a loon.

Sincerely,
meesekite

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/7/2008 9:43:05 PM   
laurell3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

I think many here seem to be missing the point that you will never make the justice system and society accept that level of hardcore play.   It makes no difference whether she cried wolf or was truly unwilling.  The acts are criminal regardless and I again disagree with Alumbardo's contention that they are not or that the defendant has a succesful ineffective assistance of counsel appeal.  I cannot see where there is any exculpatory nature in the things discussed here that would change the fact that these acts are not legal and ineffective assistance of counsel has to actually have a great probability of changing the results to be a successful appeal.



Where the hell do you get off lying and claiming that I said that rape and kidnap are not criminal acts?

I also cast doubt on someone else's claims to have proof of innocence which the defense conspired to help the prosecution conceal,  by pointing out that if something that outrageous were true, this man would have used the obvious grounds for appeal

You are a really dishonest piece of work.


As usual your insults and tantrums are unnecessary.  I was referring (once again) to your analogy to sports as some type of assault which is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 1/7/2008 9:44:44 PM >


_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/8/2008 8:06:37 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

In 1998, she begged him to serve him, "with no limitations." "I am begging to serve you Sir, completely, with no limitations."



Blah.

To me the above sounds like a clueless person who is attracted to another clueless person.

Anyone who comes to me claiming that she/he will have no limitations strikes me immediately as a fool or someone whose head is stuck in fantasy and unable or unwilling to deal with reality.

Anyone who accepts such a person is equally guilty then when reality kicks in and limitations become apparent.

However as I said at the beginning of this thread, the top in such a situation will be held more legally liable simply because of the society we live in. Frankly beyond wanting and work in the past to get people better educated about BDSM, I think a world that holds the one who ignores the other when reality does finally rear up and the other partner realizes things aren't as they should be accountable.

That was complex. Let me try again.

The first one who says "this is now a limit" is the one whom the legal system will side with. I personally think it's a good thing as long as it only applies to anything after that announcement.


Everyone needs to be trained to be powerful enough to say "this stops now" though and we need to also realize that none of us are mind readers so unless you state it, you can't claim "you should have known" as an excuse. We should also be trained from earliest days to stop lying and playing games and be more honest.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/8/2008 9:00:54 AM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

In 1998, she begged him to serve him, "with no limitations." "I am begging to serve you Sir, completely, with no limitations."


Blah.

To me the above sounds like a clueless person who is attracted to another clueless person.

Anyone who comes to me claiming that she/he will have no limitations strikes me immediately as a fool or someone whose head is stuck in fantasy and unable or unwilling to deal with reality.

Anyone who accepts such a person is equally guilty then when reality kicks in and limitations become apparent.

However as I said at the beginning of this thread, the top in such a situation will be held more legally liable simply because of the society we live in. Frankly beyond wanting and work in the past to get people better educated about BDSM, I think a world that holds the one who ignores the other when reality does finally rear up and the other partner realizes things aren't as they should be accountable.

That was complex. Let me try again.

The first one who says "this is now a limit" is the one whom the legal system will side with. I personally think it's a good thing as long as it only applies to anything after that announcement.

Everyone needs to be trained to be powerful enough to say "this stops now" though and we need to also realize that none of us are mind readers so unless you state it, you can't claim "you should have known" as an excuse. We should also be trained from earliest days to stop lying and playing games and be more honest.


I am on par with TammyJo's viewpoint.

The guy is still an idiot and focusing so heavily on the slave breaking her "no rights or no limits contract" is simply obtfuscating that side of the issue.

Regardless of whether she agreed to a "no rights or no limits non consent" relationship, the fact that he left Planet Earth behind and began to buy into the fantasy that she actually had no rights and no limits, thus allowing him to do whatever he wanted without any concern for how it might have affected her, makes him such.

But...since I am of the opinion that everyone needs boundaries and boundaries have to exist in a healthy relationship, the agreement to a relationship without them without having a large degree of trust that the person won't take someone to the unhealthy places is clueless.

However...even if I don't agree that her personal responsibility in all this isn't null and void since she should have left when things went too far, his responsibility isn't negated in the least simply because of a written peice of paper that said his slave had no limits and no rights.

Any Dom/Top/Master who doesn't have their head up in fantasy land realizes that there is things you can't ask and places you can't take someone and by ignoring that, he got what he deserved, regardless of whatever naive principle Jodi didn't hold up to.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 1/8/2008 9:03:48 AM >


_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/8/2008 2:01:24 PM   
slavegirljoy


Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

In 1998, she begged him to serve him, "with no limitations." "I am begging to serve you Sir, completely, with no limitations."


Blah.

To me the above sounds like a clueless person who is attracted to another clueless person.

This sounds like a reasonable assessment, since it was reported that she was searching the Internet for information about BDSM when she met Marcus in an AOL chatroom.


Sometime in 1998, a woman named Jodi started hunting for information about what's known as BDSM--bondage, dominance/discipline, submission/sadism and masochism--and found Marcus in an AOL chat room. He went by the screen name "GMYourGod" and demanded absolute obedience.
http://www.news.com/Police-Blotter-Bondage-Webmaster-fights-abuse-conviction/2100-1030_3-6185920.html?tag=item


quote:

Anyone who comes to me claiming that she/he will have no limitations strikes me immediately as a fool or someone whose head is stuck in fantasy and unable or unwilling to deal with reality.

Anyone who accepts such a person is equally guilty then when reality kicks in and limitations become apparent.

And, that's probably why we aren't reading news reports of thetammyjo being convicted of sex trafficking and forced labor.  You clearly have a good head on your shoulders.
 
To me, this case should be a very clear warning to any Master, who believes his slave when she says that she wants to serve him with no limitations.  That's all well and good, so long as the slave is going along with it.  But, if, at some point, she changes her mind and decides to go to the cops and tell them, "he did this" and "he did that", the Master is likely to end up with a legal fight on his hands where he may have a tough time proving his innocence, especially when the 'abuse' is well documented in pictures.
 
i still feel that, if he had removed the pictures from his website, she wouldn't have gone to the feds and there wouldn't have been a trial or conviction.  They didn't live together during their 3-year relationship.  She lived with another slave of his in another state and he only visited them 'occasionally'.  She could have left any time.  After all, there was no mention of the other slave keeping Jodi there against her will and the other slave hasn't filed any complaint against Marcus about keeping her there, against her will.  And, Jodi didn't go to the cops until more than 2 years after the relationship ended and then, only after he refused to remove her pictures from his website.
 
Look, i don't know these people and can only go by what was reported in the news.  But, it doesn't seem to me that this was a case of a Master abusing his slave.  It sounds more like this was the first D/s relationship that this woman had been in and after 3 years she decided to get out and, she didn't want her pictures up on his website any more and she got mad at him when he wouldn't oblige her wishes.  So, she went to the cops.  Of course, i could be totally wrong about this.  But, this is the impression i get from what i have read. 


Later that year (1998), Jodi traveled to Maryland to meet Marcus and a fellow sex slave named Joanna. He whipped Jodi, with her consent, and carved the word "slave" on her stomach with a knife. The next month, she sent a petition to Marcus saying in part: "I am begging to serve you Sir, completely, with no limitations."

In January 1999, Jodi moved to Maryland to live with Joanna, and Marcus would regularly visit them from his home on Long Island. Occasionally the BDSM-and-sex sessions became severe.

Many of these incidents were photographed and uploaded to SlaveSpace.com, which Jodi spent much of her time updating, including writing diaries for the site. She referred to herself as "pooch" or "poochie" and wrote lengthy, rambling essays saying things like: "i need to serve Him, to please Him. i not only want to, i need to. i feel this so deeply, every single part of me feels this."
 
After Marcus would not remove the photos from the Internet (he claimed to have a valid model release), Jodi contacted the FBI. Federal prosecutors charged Marcus with sex trafficking, forced labor and dissemination of obscene materials through an interactive computer service.
http://www.news.com/Police-Blotter-Bondage-Webmaster-fights-abuse-conviction/2100-1030_3-6185920.html?tag=item

Whatever their relationship was, it's clear from the news accounts that it did end.  And, like i stated before, "As far as i'm concerned, consent is given when people enter into a mutually voluntary Master/slave relationship and it ends when the relationship ends."  Any consent given lasts only as long as the relationship lasts.

quote:

Everyone needs to be trained to be powerful enough to say "this stops now" though and we need to also realize that none of us are mind readers so unless you state it, you can't claim "you should have known" as an excuse. We should also be trained from earliest days to stop lying and playing games and be more honest.

That's a very good idea but, it really boils down to the personal integrity of the individuals involved.  That's why i have continually stated that it's not as important to find out what each other's 'limits' are as it is to find out what each other's character is.  After all, if someone has little or no integrity, stating your limits and having them agreed to is very likely to end up being an exercise in futility and give nothing more than a false sense of security.  A contract isn't worth the paper it's printed on, if either of the people signing it don't have the personal integrity to abide by it.
 
slave joy
Owned property of Master David

< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 1/8/2008 2:13:00 PM >

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/8/2008 3:39:14 PM   
meesekite


Posts: 53
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
Hello Slavegirljoy,
I can tell you Jodi had been in other BDSM relations. Glenn Marcus was NOT the first BDSM relationship she was in; she knew what she was doing when she entered into the one she did with Glenn.
-meesekite

(in reply to slavegirljoy)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: 'S&M Svengali' sentenced to 9 years in prison for a... - 1/8/2008 6:38:13 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
A friend we had in the NYC scene used to carry around cards with him that said "Clue By 4" on them to hand out to people who came up to him claiming they had no limits or wanted to serve him with no limits. He always said that if he could have managed it, he would have carried an actual 2X4 around and bonked people on the heads when they said such thing.

Being in the scene is no promise of wisdom or actually readiness to do BDSM especially with open munches and fairly open groups these days. Not that I want rituals and hoops but still even when someone tells me they've been in the community or I've seen them around I use my own judgment to decide if they are mature enough to be with me. (or immature enough if I'm feeling silly)

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to meesekite)
Profile   Post #: 80
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