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RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 7:18:09 PM

Posts: 499
Joined: 12/13/2004
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I think there are bdsm snobs just like there are snobs in every walk of life. The experienced do tend to think they are better. As a spoiler my bad experiences with bdsm have "always" yes always...come from those claiming to be super experienced and 20 plus years in this. I don't know if they forget what it was like to be new and a little scared or if they just never learned basic safety and good sense in their 20 plus years of doing bdsm. It is possible to do something poorly for decades.

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 7:26:56 PM

Posts: 197
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline

The snobbery attitude is just something I don't get, either in BDSM or anywhere else. It's horrible in a lot of computer circles.

Basic attitude of "I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and so should you. I won't answer any of your questions until you've read X, Y, and Z and performed A, B, and C, cuz if you don't, you're not real!"

Bah. Nonsense. Not everybody likes to learn the same way and some people (gasp!) actually like to find more experienced people to talk to and learn from them instead of picking up a book. Or do both. Or neither. I don't really care.

Me? I'm a teacher (in spirit, not profession). In all things that I know and do I will freely and happily share my knowledge to help someone learn something new. I'll certainly encourage books/experimentation/external learning, but not just reply that they should go read a book instead of bothering me. If it turns out that I'm just going to parrot back a book verbatim, then I'll probably say they should go read it instead, but that's the exception not the norm.

And, of course, if they really do demonstrate a lack of desire to learn the material, then I'll quickly lose interest in teaching them. But coming to me and asking questions demonstrates that they do want to learn it and I'll treat them that way regardless of their prior experience. Only their actions after that point would discourage me from continuing.

I'm not claiming that everyone who knows about a subject should always share about it or feel obligated to instruct. Lots of people don't like doing it and lots of people just plain suck at it. No harm, no foul. But when they instead spend their time announcing how the person asking questions should be learning, what they should be doing, and that they're clearly not serious, that does irritate me to no end.

I like to grow my communities. Internet or not.

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 7:37:19 PM

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimdandymagnum
The commonality of beginning being the first step in anything, I often wonder why there is so much snobbery among the initiated and experienced

It always seemed to me that it's a defense mechanism. Some people can only appear confident if they belittle another. "See me? I'm not new to this anymore. I know things you don't. I'm therefore somehow above you, at least in my own little conceited mind."

quote:

All of us here had a start in something. It may have been on the football field, the gymnastics class, the chess club, or the bondage chair. I ask every reader to remember the start of something significant in our lives. Remember the mentors, and try to be more like them, than the people who snubbed us and tried to make us feel we were idiots for even trying to pursue a passion

A noble idea but apparently hard for many people to do, especially in an online setting. It's so much easier and funnier to be that snob than put yourself in someone else's shoes and see it like you're asking us to. But you know what I always keep in the forefront of my mind, jimdandymagnum? Some of the biggest "snobs" and apparent "experts" and know it all's may also be the biggest blowhards. Who knows if they really have any of the experience they hide behind? I sure don't. Anyone who has to look down their nose constantly at someone else has bigger issues than I care to deal with, frankly.

quote:

I know, there is a lot of falsity and deceit on message boards and websites, but this is after all the internet. Be the bigger person and respond the way you would have liked to be responded to…encouraging and practical, keeping safety, sanity, and well being of all in front. Let us not be snobs

Stand back, OP. The snobs are gonna trample you. I haven't read any other responses yet but I'm gonna guess alot of them are going to tell you to get a thick skin. After all, it's the big bad internet and you should be able to handle the abuse and arrogance of assholes

. Yeah, but who wants to? Good post but don't be surprised if you just get brushed aside as idealistic and naive. I hope not.............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to jimdandymagnum)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 7:38:31 PM

Posts: 20
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

One after my one heart RFN, after my own heart.

pc2u
JdM

"~When I was a child I prayed for a bicycle. I soon realized G~d doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness"

(in reply to RoughFN)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 7:44:26 PM

collaredncontent

Posts: 81
Joined: 1/21/2008
From: GA, USA.
Status: offline

While I agree that this original post is well thought out I must say that in general I do not get offended by 'snobs'. Those who want to make themselves feel more 'elite' by being snobbish to the new kids are really not worth my time anyway. It helps to weed out those who will really be of some value and those who I should just ignore right from the start. Those, for instance, who have claimed to be proud of their snobbish ways I'll just avoid or disregard what they have to say without further comment toward them. They aren't worth the energy or the time. Let them be snobbish and think the world of themselves if it helps them get through the day, in the end they probably aren't that much better than anyone else. It's the people who reach out with their wisdom and advice without resorting to snobbery that will be the most beneficial, keep an eye out for them, ignore the snobs, and in the end I think you'll find your experience to be enjoyable. Best of luck.

~Brian.

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 7:44:59 PM

Sexynmentalinkc

Posts: 132
Joined: 4/14/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexynmentalinkc

It's just another label.

New, old, fake, wanna-be, "real", twue, snob, elite, newbie....whatever. Pick your example. Labels suck (sometimes...or most of the time).

People are people. *shrug*

- Mr. S

Dayum it.
/stomps foot in a fit of anger

I want to be a snob.

Welllllll......okay, but just this once! You talked me into it. Label away!

*tips his hat*

- Mr. S

_____________________________

"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am..."

(in reply to IrishMist)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 7:46:03 PM

Dari

Posts: 192
Joined: 10/8/2007
Status: offline

Things given for free are often worth exactly what you pay for them.

I don't think I'm a snob. I'm demanding, yes. I have rules, and I have standards. No one can just walk up to me and instantly have access to everything I know, just because they ask for it. If you want basic information? Sure, I'll give that to you. Then I'll watch what you do with it, to see if you've earned the right for more.

My time is valuable. What I have to teach is more valuable still (within BDSM, and without). If you prove you will be a guardian of knowledge, someone that will use that knowledge wisely and well, and use it to better their lives and those around them, I'm thrilled to have the opportunity to teach. But if you want everything handed to you - you should look elsewhere.

(in reply to jimdandymagnum)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 7:59:01 PM

collaredncontent

Posts: 81
Joined: 1/21/2008
From: GA, USA.
Status: offline

Don't take this the wrong way but my question would be what makes a new person look like or seem like they want everything handed to them? I am not trying to be antagonistic here, I don't want to look that way myself. I try not to foster a 'give me a free ride and do everything for me' type of attitude but I must confess when I don't know what I'm doing I tend to stand back so that I don't mess anything up. I let go of the reigns pretty easy when I don't feel like I have enough information or direction to go in, possibly why I am a sub rather than a dom I don't know. Speaking as someone very new to this field I do not expect anyone to hold my hand, sit me down, and walk me through it while feeding me off a silver platter. I'm not special and I don't think I need special treatment. Maybe it's because I've yet to see these 'newbs' demanding to be hand fed everything yet since I'm new myself. I would just hate to deter someone from lending a hand by acting as if I want everything done for me, but I certainly don't want to be condescended to without having been guilty of it in the first place either.

-Brian.

(in reply to Dari)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 8:08:50 PM

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dari
Things given for free are often worth exactly what you pay for them

Often but sometimes they are the most valuable things of all, I've found

quote:

I don't think I'm a snob. I'm demanding, yes. I have rules, and I have standards. No one can just walk up to me and instantly have access to everything I know, just because they ask for it

You can't "just walk up to" anyone and "instantly have access to everything" they know unless they know very, very little

. Usually it takes a little time to get out of them EVERYTHING they know, I'd hope.

quote:

If you want basic information? Sure, I'll give that to you. Then I'll watch what you do with it, to see if you've earned the right for more

With all due respect, how does one "earn the right" to more of your knowledge? What would that entail exactly?

quote:

My time is valuable. What I have to teach is more valuable still (within BDSM, and without)

I think many people could say that. Everyone thinks their own time is valuable and most people believe their own knowledge is also valuable.

quote:

If you prove you will be a guardian of knowledge, someone that will use that knowledge wisely and well, and use it to better their lives and those around them, I'm thrilled to have the opportunity to teach. But if you want everything handed to you - you should look elsewhere

Again, with all respect, I think this may be what the OP is talking about. You're saying someone must use the knowledge you pass on to them to better the world and such but how do they or anyone else know that your personal knowledge is that important or valuable. You obviously think it is and perhaps it is. But to think that your time is more valuable than anyone else's or that your knowledge is more enlightened does tend to smack a bit of that snobbery that was mentioned. Just because someone wants to "pick your brain" a bit doesn't mean they owe some major debt or want everything handed to them. I am absolutely not meaning disrespect here. I'm just looking at this from the perspective of someone who thinks that an individual who considers him/herself in possession of some great knowledge should perhaps be willing to bless others with it rather than making them feel they're indebted for having access to it.............luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to Dari)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 8:17:04 PM

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimdandymagnum

In the course of any human endeavor, ... Let us not be snobs.

Uh, BULLSHIT!

The advice given on this board is far and away the best advice I have ever gotten anywhere and beats much of what I got out of San Francisco.

The reason some see it as snobbery is because they aren't ready to hear or understand it.

I don't think I would have seen the wisdom in it when I was new although if I had it would have greatly sped my growth and maturation as a dominant.

When we don't give hugs to someone who comes whining about their problems but instead ask them to figure out their role in it, we are teaching them to fish, to learn and grow. No we don't coddle them, if they are too delicate for honest criticism, they are to delicate to be messing about with BDSM.

We call people on their shit here, I am fairly well liked by a few here and trust me, has never stopped people from telling me I am full of shit when they see a pattern or if I am being hypocritical. This is a place by and for adults, if you aren't up to that, there are always the chat rooms.

As for being mentors, it has always been my experience that the people who clammer loudest to be mentors are always the ones have no business being mentors, sort of like politicians and priests.

(in reply to jimdandymagnum)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 8:18:29 PM

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimdandymagnum

In the course of any human endeavor, there is an approach that is common to all undertakings; The Beginning. Every one of us started there. We learned about our bodies, learned to tie our shoes, we developed the skills and talents that enable us to make our living, and achieve our pleasures. The commonality of beginning being the first step in anything, I often wonder why there is so much snobbery among the initiated and experienced. For the purpose of this discourse I define snobs as those who have some or much experience, and rather than take the role as coach and provide encouraging and pointed direction, seek to lambaste and harangue the novice, often inflicting injuries that make the novice shy away and sadly, never experience what the initiated do.

Our society is filled with snobbery. There are golf snobs, fashion snobs, music snobs, automotive snobs, poker snobs, bible snobs, etc. These people look at the beginner with disdain and often as not, berate the novice by reminding him/her of how much they do not know. Someone may not know the current bdsm lexicon and they are deemed unworthy. Someone may present an idea that entices them or has thrilled themselves or their partner and if it does not fit into what is “cool now” they are either rebuked or at worse…ignored.

All of us here had a start in something. It may have been on the football field, the gymnastics class, the chess club, or the bondage chair. I ask every reader to remember the start of something significant in our lives. Remember the mentors, and try to be more like them, than the people who snubbed us and tried to make us feel we were idiots for even trying to pursue a passion. I know, there is a lot of falsity and deceit on message boards and websites, but this is after all the internet. Be the bigger person and respond the way you would have liked to be responded to…encouraging and practical, keeping safety, sanity, and well being of all in front. Let us not be snobs.

Luvs <3
JdM

"~When I was a child I prayed for a bicycle. I soon realized G~d doesn't work that way, so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness"

*sighs*

Silly newbie

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to jimdandymagnum)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 8:19:24 PM

Posts: 350
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline

I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm so good at not being a snob.

In fact, I was busy not being a snob before it was cool. Something not too many other people in this lifestyle can accomplish.

Maybe someday you'll all grow up and be as much of a not-snob as me.

(in reply to jimdandymagnum)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 8:28:17 PM

Sexynmentalinkc

Posts: 132
Joined: 4/14/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arrrchibald

Maybe someday you'll all grow up and be as much of a not-snob as me.

/adds "not-snob" to his list of labels that probably suck.

*tips his hat*

- Mr. S

_____________________________

"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am..."

(in reply to Arrrchibald)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 8:29:59 PM

Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline

eh, see i don't get the whole "snobbism" concept...Plus, truth be told no matter how many times i tried to read Your OP i couldn't get through it...

That's why i prefer my title of The Slutty Bitch...

Snob or no snob, i'll still be the slutty bitch.

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb

(in reply to Arrrchibald)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 8:30:03 PM

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: collaredncontent

Don't take this the wrong way but my question would be what makes a new person look like or seem like they want everything handed to them? I am not trying to be antagonistic here, I don't want to look that way myself. I try not to foster a 'give me a free ride and do everything for me' type of attitude but I must confess when I don't know what I'm doing I tend to stand back so that I don't mess anything up. I let go of the reigns pretty easy when I don't feel like I have enough information or direction to go in, possibly why I am a sub rather than a dom I don't know. Speaking as someone very new to this field I do not expect anyone to hold my hand, sit me down, and walk me through it while feeding me off a silver platter. I'm not special and I don't think I need special treatment. Maybe it's because I've yet to see these 'newbs' demanding to be hand fed everything yet since I'm new myself. I would just hate to deter someone from lending a hand by acting as if I want everything done for me, but I certainly don't want to be condescended to without having been guilty of it in the first place either.

-Brian.

Brian,

Excellent question. I think I am the perfect answer to your question. If you read my posts I love to mock idiots and I am probably one of the crueler and more sarcastic posters here, although in this crowd I sometimes feel like an amateur.

However, when someone like you asks an intelligent question or posts something that is not only heartfelt but shows a genuine attempt to be introspective I do my best to give serious and thoughtful responses.

Same goes in real life. If some clueless nitwit comes running up to me and asks how you do a deeply edgy mindfuck I am going to blow them off because they aren't ready for that knowledge. I have also taken on male submissives ( I tend to shy away from mentoring females for obvious reasons) and done my best to guide them but they are rarely ready to hear (and thus the market for pro-dommes) but I have done it.

I seldom respond to flirtatious emails (except from blonde dommes) but I try and respond to heartfelt questions. I know I am not alone in this.

(in reply to collaredncontent)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 8:30:23 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimdandymagnum

In the course of any human endeavor, ... Let us not be snobs.

Uh, BULLSHIT!

The advice given on this board is far and away the best advice I have ever gotten anywhere and beats much of what I got out of San Francisco.

The reason some see it as snobbery is because they aren't ready to hear or understand it.

I don't think I would have seen the wisdom in it when I was new although if I had it would have greatly sped my growth and maturation as a dominant.

When we don't give hugs to someone who comes whining about their problems but instead ask them to figure out their role in it, we are teaching them to fish, to learn and grow. No we don't coddle them, if they are too delicate for honest criticism, they are to delicate to be messing about with BDSM.

We call people on their shit here, I am fairly well liked by a few here and trust me, has never stopped people from telling me I am full of shit when they see a pattern or if I am being hypocritical. This is a place by and for adults, if you aren't up to that, there are always the chat rooms.

As for being mentors, it has always been my experience that the people who clammer loudest to be mentors are always the ones have no business being mentors, sort of like politicians and priests.

..OMG..I actually agree with Michael!!..quick!! someone check to see if it is the end of the world!!!.....what I will add to this however is that I learn from everything..and every kind of person..be they snob,nurturer,wall flower,newbie,experienced, vanilla..I learn from situations, life,wherever I am..I am learning..I do not care what kind of attitude they have..I will draw from them what I need and discard that which is lacking to what I seek...Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 8:41:17 PM

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I love to mock idiots and I am probably one of the crueler and more sarcastic posters here, although in this crowd I sometimes feel like an amateur.

That's your inner amateur talking. On the outside, you're all pro.

quote:

I seldom respond to flirtatious emails (except from blonde dommes)

OH MY GOD... I sooooooo love a challenge. Now if I can just get the inside scoop from BSB...

Cali "Norma Jean" Monroe

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 8:53:57 PM

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

[Uh, BULLSHIT!

The advice given on this board is far and away the best advice I have ever gotten anywhere and beats much of what I got out of San Francisco.

The reason some see it as snobbery is because they aren't ready to hear or understand it.

I don't think I would have seen the wisdom in it when I was new although if I had it would have greatly sped my growth and maturation as a dominant.

When we don't give hugs to someone who comes whining about their problems but instead ask them to figure out their role in it, we are teaching them to fish, to learn and grow. No we don't coddle them, if they are too delicate for honest criticism, they are to delicate to be messing about with BDSM.

We call people on their shit here, I am fairly well liked by a few here and trust me, has never stopped people from telling me I am full of shit when they see a pattern or if I am being hypocritical. This is a place by and for adults, if you aren't up to that, there are always the chat rooms.

As for being mentors, it has always been my experience that the people who clammer loudest to be mentors are always the ones have no business being mentors, sort of like politicians and priests.

I agree with this alot. People who throw the word snob around, often do so for many reasons. They feel insecure about their own lack of anything, intelligence, experience, HUMOR, or just not "getting" it.

People who ask inane questions here (and you know who you are) usually do so for negative attention. When they actually get that negative attention, they turn all whinycrybabylittlegirlieman on us and accuse everyone of flaming, bashing, belittling and being snobby.

I personally try and answer a genuine question if I have something intelligent to contribute. If I have no knowledge to contribute, I do not post or, if the thread has derailed into humor, as it often does, I will jump in with my usual brand of spirited banter.

What I truly detest are those who post a question, you reply, and the person hates the answer and gets all passive-aggressive and snarky about it, as if we are all idiots.

Am I a snob? To a degree, yes. But only about people who have no sense of humor or those who lack the self awareness and ability to discern what someone is trying to say to them.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 9:05:20 PM

Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline

wait--- if we are all snobs, how are we exclusive?

Maybe the club of snob needs to be a bit more discriminating, before we're just normal and common place.

_____________________________

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to sexyred1)

RE: BDSM SNOBS - 1/24/2008 9:07:28 PM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Like IrishMist, I fully own to being a snob.

Do you know why? Because it is T/those like Me, who came before Me, who also learned, took their lumps, and didn't get everything handed to them in the cyber world. W/we didn't expect everything to be handed to U/us on a silver platter. W/we went out, to the real community, where there was no PC, and stuck it out through those beginning lumps. Why? Because W/we found that W/we really wanted this. More than it just being given to U/us. It was worth the work. It was worth trial and error. It was worth the wait.

It is more than easy to sit behind the screen and want. Simpler still to complain about why there is no acceptance. To go out and get what you want? Aye. That is the challenge.

I dunno, there's just too much irony in someone talking about coming "before all this PC stuff" and then taking such care in using slashy type pointless language.

The problem is that for every wide eyed sincere newbie, there IS a snob saying "I had it rough, so deal and respect me now!"

And for every sincere experienced chica like me saying "You really have to do what works and figure out why you keep choosing what doesn't" there's a clueless newbie who just wants to be told how precious she is and that it's ok she once again collared a flake in less than a month and it didn't work out.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LadyPact)

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