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What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 12:27:51 PM

daddyncherry

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Okay, so i have been reading the recent thread on emotional sadists that puts them all in a big pot with abusers...There have been a couple of posters who have mentioned being into emotional sadism, or classified themselves as emotional masochists. They have said how it is a good thing for them etc.

This made me curious....What does it mean within a relationship? What forms does it take. how does it manifest? How does it make you feel? And if you can explain it in some detail, what about it is satisifying.

i'm very curious to learn....and open this to the emotional masochists as well as the emotional sadists.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

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Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

Post #: 1

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 12:46:38 PM

ProlificNeeds

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The bulk of my experience with emotional S&M has been under negative context. IE purposeful manipulations, lies, cheating ect. I'll try to give a more neutral explination of emotional S&M however as I would imagine it can be done in a healthy manner as well.

Some people will tend to say 'mind fuck' or slice the broad area of emotional manipulation into groups. Humiliation play, abandonment play, and so on. Each of these forms of play can involve physical elements, but the core of these types of play is to fuck with your emotions, to make you hurt, suffer, or merely be discomforted emotionally. For some emotional sadists, evoking and watching the run of emotions in their bottom can be thrilling. Causing fear, sorrow, shame, and many other subtle shades of emotion, whatever it is they like most. Instead of manipulating the body, the top manipulates emotions, either aiming for a desired result or simply opening up the outter shell and watching the reaction.
The emotional masochists likes the intensity such emotion brings, being thrown around the emotional array by someone elses directive instills a feeling of helplessness; not physically but emotionally. Ever had crazy mood swings you couldn't control and felt very frustrated about it? Similar to my mind is the frustration of being pulled about by an emotional sadist. It's button pushing at it's finest.

Some people think it's a very negative thing, some people really get off on it. I identify as an emotional masochist. I used to subconsciously land myself in emotionally abusive situations with partners until I found a safer venue through forms of humiliation play. For some it's a concept they will never understand, they simply don't work that way, for others, like myself, it's almost a true fetish that is guarenteed to be an unhealthy addiction if not managed with care.

I don't know if that was very clear but it's the best explination I could think of at the moment.

< Message edited by ProlificNeeds -- 2/2/2008 12:49:31 PM >

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Post #: 2

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 1:22:09 PM

MadRabbit

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I would say the simplest definition would probably be inflicting pain in the realm of the emotional. It can be a whole lot of different things from fear to sadness to depression to heartbreak to stress to making them cry. Everyone just always wants to go to the worst case scenario.

Pushing someone's buttons in an attempt to raise their stress level and make them lose control is a form of emotional and psychological S/M.

It's not all just heartbreak in a relationship.

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Post #: 3

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 1:31:33 PM

IrishMist

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I can try my best to explain it from my own experiences and perceptions. Before I do though, I want to stress that in no way do I recommend this kind of relationship for another; even if I think they could handle it, I would tell them to run pretty fast in the opposite direction.

Calling myself a masochist; whether it be physical, mental, emotional, or psychological does not, really, explain fully what I am, where I am, or why I am this way. Masochist just seems like a lame word; just as the word sadist to me seems lame when using it to describe my late husband.

I am a very…violent….person…physically, emotionally, mentally, and psychologically. Not because of anything that happened in my raising; my parents were wonderful, wonderful, people…It just seemed like I was always missing a part of myself growing up, and the feeling of that hole left me very angry to the point that I was a walking time bomb around anyone, family included. By the time I was a teenage, I was so violent that a single look from a stranger could set me off. To top this off, my attacks were not limited to verbal; they were extremely physical.

My late husband was a lot like me; extremely violent; physically, mentally, emotionally…all of it. It’s what first attracted me to him; the feeling of uncontrolled violence about him. The difference between he and I though was that he was able to control his anger; able to channel it into something good, instead of something wrong; like me. It’s one of the most important lessons he ever taught me in the time we were together; how to control myself and channel all that energy into good instead of bad.

Within our relationship, he knew the exact look, word, phrase, smile to use at the exact right moment to bring me to the point that I wanted to do physical violence. He would often do this deliberately in order so that I could release all the energy within me. He was strong; physically, he could handle me with an arm tied behind his back…he never held back; and he never tried to…soften his words or blows because he knew that that was not what I needed.

Emotionally, he was able to bring me to my knees in pain from something he would say or do; my reaction to the pain would be to strike out at him; which is the reaction he was hoping for. When it was over, I would often be so wrung out physically and emotionally that I literally could not move from wherever it happened to be that he left me at that time. One time, I spent days curled in a ball trying to come to terms with what had been said and done.

He never did this to bring me down though. It was always with the intent to lift me past the anger, the darkness, the violence…so that I could find a calm place within myself; and eventually, discover what it was that I felt was missing from within me.
It worked. It probably would not work with others. But for me, it worked.

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Post #: 4

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 2:20:44 PM

daddyncherry

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

He never did this to bring me down though. It was always with the intent to lift me past the anger, the darkness, the violence…so that I could find a calm place within myself; and eventually, discover what it was that I felt was missing from within me.
It worked. It probably would not work with others. But for me, it worked.

Thank you for sharing IM..the above quoted part was a facet of what i am looking to learn. And i know that you are speaking from your own perspective of course, but this is part of what i wanted insight on.....Kind of where i get something out of being beaten, not exactly for the physical or sexual aspect and i don't get to subspace, but for the tears, and release (and of course sating my Daddy's sadistic desires)....my rage was almost always turned inward, to cutting and stuff, and sometimes being beaten helps calm that part in me. (kind of the flipside of the same coin)

Again, thank you very much for your very candid reply.

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 5

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 2:23:14 PM

catize

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quote:

What does it mean within a relationship?

It means that I have entrusted him with knowledge that he can use against me. And that he is skilled enough to hurt me where I am vulnerable while allowing me to remain whole.

quote:

What forms does it take.

It takes many forms, actually, and I imagine it is different for each person. The first example that comes to my mind is this:
There are several things that I submit to that I really hate. When S. does these things to me I usually reach a point where tears are streaming down my face. He ignores my tears; he does not react to them at all. My feelings are irrelevant to him at that time. His demeanor is cold and calculating.
Another example lies in the difference between the two dominants in my life regarding water sports (bear with me here).
R. loves water sports and when he is pissing on me, his face is lit with joy because he loves that I submit to him in this way. It is quite different with S. because when he does it, he might as well be pissing against a wall.

quote:

How does it make you feel?

My feelings are mixed. When he is cold and aloof, I feel heat both as a result of shame and sexual arousal.

quote:

what about it is satisifying.

I don’t know if I can even begin to explain why or how it is satisfying. It is a jumbled circle of humility and pride all felt at the exact same moment. Part of it is the realization that I am strong enough and certain enough about myself that I can blossom when figuratively being trampled. And part of it is about his strength, his ability to stand back and not allow emotions, his or mine, to deter him from getting what he wants. It is an emotive wrestling match. He pins me against the mat and keeps me there twitching and twisting for as long as he likes. But always, without a doubt, he will hold out his hand to help me stand up when it is done.

_____________________________

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Post #: 6

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 2:25:22 PM

daddyncherry

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I would say the simplest definition would probably be inflicting pain in the realm of the emotional. It can be a whole lot of different things from fear to sadness to depression to heartbreak to stress to making them cry. Everyone just always wants to go to the worst case scenario.

Pushing someone's buttons in an attempt to raise their stress level and make them lose control is a form of emotional and psychological S/M.

It's not all just heartbreak in a relationship.

MR-

i understand kind of what it is in the push buttons kind of way...i was looking for more in depth reasoning,feeling, in the positive sense....and i definitely wasn't looking for the simplest definition, although i do thank you for giving it, but it is kind of obvious by the term "emotional/S or m" what the definition would be.....IM gave a really good perspective on what i am trying to gain insight on.....So, as a D type can you give insight on why you would do it? In a productive, uplifting or growth inducing way?

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 7

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 2:29:37 PM

daddyncherry

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Ty for your reply ProlificNeeds..that is a good cross section of some ways that it can manifest....but i was kind of looking for a deeper look into it...if you have anything you'd like to share i'd be interested.

Thank you again

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

Post #: 8

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 2:34:12 PM

daddyncherry

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Soooo for those of you that understand or where emotional masochism/sadism is used in your lives would this be an example of a positive way to use emotional sadism to a postive result?

Example: my Daddy knows that i am crowd phobic as hell....and yet he has/will push me to go out into a crowd all alone to get something (drink or other thing). It is torture for me to deal with, and yet after being pushed into these situations now for 2 years i can do it with less pain...he said he will not feed into my fear.

Example: Again, with crowd phobia, this time at the gym.....He was going to just drop me off and let me do my thing....i was petrified and was ready, literally on my way, to walking out when he stopped me and made me go work out until he came back to get me. i was terrified but dealt with it better since he forced it....Now, i can go to the gym all alone.

Would these be examples of emotional sadism?

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 9

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 2:40:02 PM

MasterFireMaam

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From: Charleston, WV
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I would consider humiliation to be emotional SM. Also, playing with fear and anger in scenes. Ooo...tears, too. I love it when they cry, although I don't want it to be from humiliation. For whatever reasons, I don't like humiliation play, but I DO like fear and anger.

Master Fire

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Post #: 10

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 2:53:19 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

Soooo for those of you that understand or where emotional masochism/sadism is used in your lives would this be an example of a positive way to use emotional sadism to a postive result?

Example: my Daddy knows that i am crowd phobic as hell....and yet he has/will push me to go out into a crowd all alone to get something (drink or other thing). It is torture for me to deal with, and yet after being pushed into these situations now for 2 years i can do it with less pain...he said he will not feed into my fear.

Example: Again, with crowd phobia, this time at the gym.....He was going to just drop me off and let me do my thing....i was petrified and was ready, literally on my way, to walking out when he stopped me and made me go work out until he came back to get me. i was terrified but dealt with it better since he forced it....Now, i can go to the gym all alone.

Would these be examples of emotional sadism?

I don’t see this as having a sadistic motivation. Did he enjoy your difficulty or was it more that he took pleasure in helping you to function better socially? There is a difference

< Message edited by catize -- 2/2/2008 2:54:30 PM >

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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Post #: 11

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 3:07:12 PM

daddyncherry

Posts: 656
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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

Soooo for those of you that understand or where emotional masochism/sadism is used in your lives would this be an example of a positive way to use emotional sadism to a postive result?

Example: my Daddy knows that i am crowd phobic as hell....and yet he has/will push me to go out into a crowd all alone to get something (drink or other thing). It is torture for me to deal with, and yet after being pushed into these situations now for 2 years i can do it with less pain...he said he will not feed into my fear.

Example: Again, with crowd phobia, this time at the gym.....He was going to just drop me off and let me do my thing....i was petrified and was ready, literally on my way, to walking out when he stopped me and made me go work out until he came back to get me. i was terrified but dealt with it better since he forced it....Now, i can go to the gym all alone.

Would these be examples of emotional sadism?

I don’t see this as having a sadistic motivation. Did he enjoy your difficulty or was it more that he took pleasure in helping you to function better socially? There is a difference

first catize, i want to thank you for your response above.

i honestly don't know if he enjoyed it in a sadistic way...it seems to me that if he didn't then he might've tried to do it in a softer manner and then gradually built to something....Kinda of "throw the kid into the deep end of the pool" vs. "Letting them adjust and then teaching them"...He seems to much prefer "throw the kid in" type situations....Knowing FULL WELL how absoultely painful it is to me, how terrified i am (ALL on an emotional level of course)...he rarely if ever chooses to hold me hand and let me slowly adjust to knowing that he is there to keep me safe.....He throws me into the situation and then afterward, such as at the gym he gives me the logic lesson, "Soooo, when I was gone did any body hurt you? Did they steal your lunch money? Did anything bad happen at all? So then it wasn't so bad after all huh?" But to me it is always awful the first handful of times or more.

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 12

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 3:52:57 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddyncherry

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I would say the simplest definition would probably be inflicting pain in the realm of the emotional. It can be a whole lot of different things from fear to sadness to depression to heartbreak to stress to making them cry. Everyone just always wants to go to the worst case scenario.

Pushing someone's buttons in an attempt to raise their stress level and make them lose control is a form of emotional and psychological S/M.

It's not all just heartbreak in a relationship.

MR-

i understand kind of what it is in the push buttons kind of way...i was looking for more in depth reasoning,feeling, in the positive sense....and i definitely wasn't looking for the simplest definition, although i do thank you for giving it, but it is kind of obvious by the term "emotional/S or m" what the definition would be.....IM gave a really good perspective on what i am trying to gain insight on.....So, as a D type can you give insight on why you would do it? In a productive, uplifting or growth inducing way?

I wasn't trying to insult you by stating the obvious first grader terms, but was just trying to make a point. A lot of people in the other thread took emotional sadism to the extreme, worst case scenario.

Forcing someone to push past a challenge or obstacle that is incredibly hard for them and taking some degree of pleasure in watching their struggles and anguish would be emotional sadism. If the challenge or obstacle is something constructive, then it could very well be something positive or uplifting. But a spade is a spade and the sadism part is the enjoyment of their suffering.

I can't say its always positive or uplifting or even meant to be. Humilation and degradation makes me hot and hopefully the person I am with hot as well. They serve the not too noble purpose of an erection.

Same thing with tears. Whether the tears are the result of something positive or uplifting is immaterial to the sadism part where I simply enjoy the tears.

My moral compass and character as a person ensure that the things I do are healthy and constructive. Edited to Add : I couldn't take any joy in making someone I care about feel unloved, unwanted, and abandoned, because my morality would not allow it.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 2/2/2008 3:57:17 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 13

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 4:04:04 PM

daddyncherry

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I wasn't trying to insult you by stating the obvious first grader terms, but was just trying to make a point. A lot of people in the other thread took emotional sadism to the extreme, worst case scenario.

Forcing someone to push past a challenge or obstacle that is incredibly hard for them and taking some degree of pleasure in watching their struggles and anguish would be emotional sadism. If the challenge or obstacle is something constructive, then it could very well be something positive or uplifting. But a spade is a spade and the sadism part is the enjoyment of their suffering.

I can't say its always positive or uplifting or even meant to be. Humilation and degradation makes me hot and hopefully the person I am with hot as well. They serve the not too noble purpose of an erection.

Same thing with tears. Whether the tears are the result of something positive or uplifting is immaterial to the sadism part where I simply enjoy the tears.

My moral compass and character as a person ensure that the things I do are healthy and constructive. Edited to Add : I couldn't take any joy in making someone I care about feel unloved, unwanted, and abandoned, because my morality would not allow it.

Thank you for the response esp the bolded part...and i didn't think you were being insulting, rather that you had missed my point (i see now what your intent was tho, thanks for the clarification)

i like the tears part too myself, though i don't actually know if i am a masochist on either side (emo/phys.)...Something about the release of the tears, as well as the fact that he won't stop simply because i am crying and part of me is totally hoping that he actually gets off on the tears.....but that is in the context of physical play....not sure how it would be during something else (like a disucssion or something) where it would be more emotional.

There are some instances in my relationship where i am in emotional turnoil and don't know if he gets off on it or not, so i guess that would be the difference between sadism and non-sadist (from an emo perspective)

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 14

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 4:13:08 PM

lateralist1

Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
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I think what you describe cherry is behavioural modification not emotional S/m.
You would have to ask your daddy to make sure.
We all tend to use different terminology.
I have been an emotional and physical masochist all my life.
I didn't explore my sadism as much as my masochism until fairly recently.
Allowing people to inflict pain on me is not as socially unacceptable as inflicting pain.
Now I inflict pain. The change has been slow and painful lol. It may well have been something to do with getting my own back on men but I really don't think so. I think it's just about gaining pleasure in different ways. It's also about achieving peace. Some people just need a lot to achieve peace. Maybe that's why the world sees us as mad.
I think that's what I look for in a sub. The ability to provide me with that feeling of inner peace. Which for me means consenting to my hurting him emotionally as well as physically. Knowing I won't actually harm him. Taking someone to the edge of their endurance without them wanting out of the relationship is really stunning.

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Post #: 15

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 4:28:01 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

first catize, i want to thank you for your response above.

i honestly don't know if he enjoyed it in a sadistic way...it seems to me that if he didn't then he might've tried to do it in a softer manner and then gradually built to something....Kinda of "throw the kid into the deep end of the pool" vs. "Letting them adjust and then teaching them"...He seems to much prefer "throw the kid in" type situations....Knowing FULL WELL how absoultely painful it is to me, how terrified i am (ALL on an emotional level of course)...he rarely if ever chooses to hold me hand and let me slowly adjust to knowing that he is there to keep me safe.....He throws me into the situation and then afterward, such as at the gym he gives me the logic lesson, "Soooo, when I was gone did any body hurt you? Did they steal your lunch money? Did anything bad happen at all? So then it wasn't so bad after all huh?" But to me it is always awful the first handful of times or more.

You are welcome, I hope it helped explain it a little for you.

Maybe you could ask him about his motivation. Just because he ‘threw you in the deep end’ and then made his point with some harsh words doesn’t have to mean he was sadistic. He may have felt he needed to be ‘cruel to be kind.’

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

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Post #: 16

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 4:38:17 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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cherry,

it's hardly exclusive to BDSM relationships.

know anyone who if they don't have something to get all emotionally worked up about, they create it...and wallow in the emotional turmoil that ensues, blaming everyone else BUT themselves for the emotional upheaval they are creating/experiencing? they get referred to as drama queens, attention whores, that sort of thing.

or how about the ones here who just won't/can't let the poor little poster be who has their panties in a wad over some perceived(or blatantly intended) insult someone typed out on a computer screen, until a Mod gets involved and then they are "awaiting approval". they get referred to as bulies and abusers.

there are quite a few emotional S/m types here at CM. however, this slave doesn't think most of them list it in their profile, even if they are aware of that aspect of themselves.

the way it manifests in our relationship most commonly, and simply, is He will say something that will affect this slave's emotions and is sure to get an emotional response, like tears, for example, and then He will giggle and hold this slave while she cries, saying stuff like, "aw, poor little baby".

it brings us both a little joy, but then we embrace our sadism/masochism, both physical and emotional.

(in reply to daddyncherry)

Post #: 17

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 4:39:23 PM

daddyncherry

Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

You are welcome, I hope it helped explain it a little for you.

Maybe you could ask him about his motivation. Just because he ‘threw you in the deep end’ and then made his point with some harsh words doesn’t have to mean he was sadistic. He may have felt he needed to be ‘cruel to be kind.’

Nah, asking him his motivation is almost never a good idea LOL...it is seen as something that i am trying to control, or is something he either wishes me to just obey without understanding or that he allows me to figure out on my own and then accept....And the way he said what he said wasn't in a cruel way, it was more like talking to a child, only trying to make me understand logically...So i joked back to him..."No, it wasn't so bad, but they did steal my dollie." and then When he said it wasn't so bad i joked, "No, not for you." LOL

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 18

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 4:43:37 PM

daddyncherry

Posts: 656
Joined: 10/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

the way it manifests in our relationship most commonly, and simply, is He will say something that will affect this slave's emotions and is sure to get an emotional response, like tears, for example, and then He will giggle and hold this slave while she cries, saying stuff like, "aw, poor little baby".

it brings us both a little joy, but then we embrace our sadism/masochism, both physical and emotional.

beth,

Thank you very much, that puts it perspective that i can understand....along with some things others have said as well.

And, although i would never ever consider myself a dram queen or attention whore, i do have a tendency to read into things, or when my mind fills in blanks in things, i tend toward the negative, scary, sad, emtoional end of things....This is from experience in my life that have shown me more ugly than good....i am trying to work on it, but it isn't easy to do.

So is that akin to emotional masochism? Or only if i prefer that state of being to being truly happy?

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 19

RE: What actually is emotional Sm? - 2/2/2008 4:46:17 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

I

You know, Mist, this explanation which you so honestly wrote, is a great example for those who may not understand a certain way of being. How often do we hear posters, including me even, say "I don't get this or how could someone do that".

But when you explain things the way you just did, it makes total sense to me and allows me to understand someone else's fetish or idea or dynamic, even if I would not be doing it myself. That is because you illustrated so clearly what what as the heart of it. That I can relate to.

Thanks.

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 20

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