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makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 10:33:38 AM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		A little background before I pose my question. I refer to myself as somewhat " vain ". Meaning that I am not a beauty queen, but like to look my best when out publically. < ie: hair done, make up on, dressed neatly, well groomed, clean, etc. You get the idea> I also have always had a strong focus on my skin. I have a nice, soft, supple skin and have a skin protocol to keep it that way. About 10 years ago, I was diagnosed with a medical condition and was on Prednisone and Cytoxin < steroid and chemotherapy> for three years. One of the side effects that occured was permanant facial and neck discolouration/blotching. I have an irregular reddness/patches on my face and neck. I am very self conscious about this publically. I do not go out without a complexion evening foundation, a light creme blush and mascara. Nothing heavy, very natural looking.

I have been in my current relationship about 9 months, after " courting" for about 4 months. I was and am very honest in my communication about being self conscious about my skin and the fact that I will not go out pubilically without evening out the irregularities. I do not care if close friends or family see me sans make up or if the UPS man comes to the door unexpectedly, I don't freak out and run to the bathroom to slather on a coat of paint.

This has been a non issue since the beginning of our relationship. Something that rarely ever came up. When it did, He was supportive and never indicated that it was something that bothered him or that he wanted to change. .

Out of the blue, about a month ago, he began a discussion that involves his desire for me " to get over it" and wants me to cease wearing make up publically. His reason is: it is a vanity issue and will be a good lesson in humility for me. He says that I should be comfortable with who I am , not what I look like. I have explained until I am blue in the face that I am comfortable with who I am, becasue that comes from with in me. I have told him that I have gone out without make up and invariably some one will ask " what happned " . I don't lie, so this begins a conversation of me having to explain my medical condition and treatment and how it all occured. I am in remission and fit as a fiddle and HATE having to re live a time that was very frightening and challenging with strangers. Beleive me when I tell you... few will ask an amputee what happened to them, but it is not so uncommon < as i have found out> to ask about blotches, lol

The other night he approached this subject once again and informed me that he "expects " me to begin the transition in the next few weeks. He has told me I am not to wear my make up when I go grocery shopping or pleasure shopping to " ease" into it. I calmly tried to, yet again, tell him that I am not willing, nor do I want to do this and that this has little to do with D/s, but more to do with some sort of amatuer wannabe psychotherapy he has conjurred up. Yes, I was aggravated and snide. This conversation has been going on for a while and I have been calm and tried to reason with him and I came to my wits end. The entire episode ended with him telling me that I have not gotten over my "illness" and it is time for me to start moving on and face it. By this time I had calmed down and told him that his " request" was a deal breaker. He is very well aware of my way of dealing with any illness and with life in general, which involves mind-body-spirit wellness. And that I believe one needs to keep themselves positive and filter out the negativity to maintain a state of health. I belive it is HIS fear of my illness that is prompting this, that he is not settled with it. I am 100% healthy, in remission, and even if it flares up it is not cancer, and I can handle the treatment once again. I am beginning to think he may not be able to handle things or he has a fear that I may get ill again. I have asked him this, but he says I am wrong.

I am writing for affirmation that I am not being ridiculous. But also welcome any thoughts that can show me reason why this is a positive, relationship expanding excersise, because I cannot see one. For clarity>>> my illness is of a chronic type not terminal, and I have taken him to my MDs who have assured him that I seem to be in the lucky percentage group who have a good chance of no further recurrances. And that if I were to have a recurrance it would be managable with another course of steriods and chemotherapy.

We have agreed to re visit this topic in a few weeks. I really don't think he believes me when I tell him I am leaving unless he changes his mind. Or perhaps he does and doesn't care. I have asked him for solid reasoning for this new revalation on his part and all he can come up with is " humility and cope with what you went thru ". I obviously have coped with it, becasue I am alive, well, happy, positive and keep the illness in perspective, <know it was there, fought it, lived thru it and came out stronger for it I have told him that this is putting uneeded stress my mind and my body. He has suggested meditation and imaging.

As shallow as I may seem to some, this issue is a huge one for me, and was never hidden. Perhaps I should have made it a hard limit, but who woulda thunk?

Thank You for any words of wisdom or advice you may have.

maybemaybenot
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 10:57:26 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Will it kill you or do you have to face an alternative reality? One not of your making and accept other incidence?

You all can wear makeup and falls and false boobies and so on, but a man wears a rug from vanity or does a combover and you laugh.......

We all have insecurities, love.........

In my mind Master is making you deal in a different aspect with one of yours............

Do it, no matter how scared you are.....(perhaps your perception needs revision)

You will either be in an asane asylum or you will be in jail or you will be physically sharded for life.............

OR NOT.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 11:32:22 AM   
Awakener


Posts: 88
Joined: 9/18/2005
Status: offline 		I feel his request is reasonable. it is one i might make myself. For me the reason would be simple. I would want you to see yourself through my eyes.
He says "humility and cope with what you went thru"....this is thin to be sure. Maybe he honestly can't express just why he wishes this.
If you care for each other for true, then give this a chance, a try.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 2:02:31 PM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline 		In my opinion, if you have discussed this thoroughly with him and you made it clear that it is a deal breaker if he insists you do it, then stay true to your feelings. You sound very secure in your life and how you deal with things, and you have been dealing with this medical condition longer than you have been with him. In the end, this is your life to live on this earth, and you need to be comfortable with what you are doing. If what he expects of you will ultimately be detrimental to your mental health, and he still insists upon it, then perhaps there does need to be a change in the relationship, as difficult as that may be.

I wish you both luck.

Be well,
Julie

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 2:24:34 PM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline 		Let me be the pain in the ass. He is asking you for something, and you have refused and explained why (which i fully understand, BTW), and he only repeats his request.

This demonstrates a lack of mutual respect and a bit of idiocy. Run, do not walk; he will be a sub-par Dom if he is a Dom at all.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 9/25/2005 2:25:08 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)
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RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 2:30:46 PM   
cinnfulhussy


Posts: 135
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline 		If this was something that was discussed from the very beginning of courting, that this was a hard limit for you, and that was accepted as a condition of the relationship.....I think you are being very reasonable. Even if it is vanity, and I'm not saying it is or is not. If he has a desire for you to "get over it" perhaps he could do a little better than just having you go sans makeup.
Perhaps he should send you to a psychologist. A real one not an armchair one.
I do not think his request, as it stands is reasonable. A person's psyche is a delicate thing and only a professional should be helping you see if this is reasonable for *you*. This goes beyond D/s and you doing something to please him. He does not seem equipped to handle this without doing lasting damage to you. We can only speculate, you are the only one who close enough to the situation to really understand its importance to you. If this is a make or break deal, he has the information he needs to make an informed decision. You do what is right, for you.

(in reply to LadyJulieAnn)
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RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 2:31:49 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkpleasures

Let me be the pain in the ass. He is asking you for something, and you have refused and explained why (which i fully understand, BTW), and he only repeats his request.

This demonstrates a lack of mutual respect and a bit of idiocy. Run, do not walk; he will be a sub-par Dom if he is a Dom at all.

pinkpleasures


Totally disagree.

He is asserting something that he sees as something he wants changed. He believes that in this relationship it is his right to have this thing changed. She believes that it is not his right.

It isn't that -he- is a bad person, nor a bad dominant person, simply their expectations differ.

I can see where he's coming from--it seems that he believes that she is his to control, and do with as he sees fit. He sees fit to have her stop wearing makeup. Whatever the reason, it boils down to because he wants to. He sees her resistance to comply as disobeyhing him.

I also see where sh'es coming from--she sees his interfearance as trying to make her comfortable with herself, when she already is. She sees his comand as missguided, and doesn't think this is something that needs his control.

I guess were I in this situation I'd find it necessary to sit down and talk to my partner. It would be necessary to re-outline the boundaries of his control. _Is_ it his right to tell me how to dress? Are my clothing choices mine or his?

It seems that he believes they are his provice, while she believes they aren't. This doesn't make him an abuser or a bad dominant person. They just don't have the same outlook.

I think that the discussion needs to be aobut boundaries as a whole, not about this spesific issue, because it seems he's seeing this as a single issue, when to me it's about what rights he has to command, and what rights she's reserved for herlsef.

If they can't reach an equitable division of roles, then it's probably time to call it quits.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to pinkpleasures)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 3:36:01 PM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline 		I don't think you are being unreasonable. It seems to me that you are well balanced and have done a very good job of coping with your condition. I think his position is somewhat understandable and may be well-intentioned, but still not tenable. As was said above, this does not indicate that he is a bad person or a poor Dom, but it might mean that the two of you have reached an impasse in your relationship. An ex-slave of mine had an issue...a condition...for which I had to make allowances. It was sometimes difficult, but it was not something I could simply "command" away. I was understanding and as helpful as I could be and didn't feel I had the right to be muddling around inside her mind trying to effect a cure.

I wish you both happiness.

Bob

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 3:48:19 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I am not wont to do this but I will talk about the horse in the room.

Some of you women may know flushing, men actually find that attractive (if a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortinight, it concentrates his mind wonerfully (johnson, i think)) I am sure you want to look your best and you have issues. Well, I am gonna start from fuck and say the man has prolly slept with you and you don't look that bad.

I always talk about age in this.

You are who you are and you look like what you look like and if you cannot live like that in this world then ask your Master to call me and I will beat you if he can't.

He finds you pretty without the mask. You are pretty I warrant, and fat too. So what are you doing about your weight? Obcess on that if you need something to obcess on. Be real with the one you love.

I ain't even fucking joking,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 9
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 4:32:53 PM   
Sabella


Posts: 265
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline 		We both (read it to my Dom) think he is being a dick. Even if it was something as small as a dime if it bothers YOU then you need to deal with it, however you can - if that means makeup to make you feel 100% your "best" then that's ok.

Confidence breakers, we all have them. His way of telling you to just "deal with it" isn't designed to woo you into accepting yourself, it's for humiliation only (or it will be if you can't get around it). Yeah the sink or swim method works on some folks, some of the time - but I'm with you on this one. It wouldn't fly at ALL with me either.

< Message edited by Sabella -- 9/25/2005 4:33:37 PM >

_____________________________

“The giant Grof was hit in one eye by a stone,
and that eye turned inward so that it looked into his mind and he died of what he saw there.”
From The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, by Patricia A. McKillip

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 4:41:28 PM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Ditto to Perverse. He isn't being bad or wrong, he's just stating his expectations. You aren't being bad or wrong, just stating your limits.

Limits get to be irrational. Expectations get to be irrational. As long as everyone agrees with them, it works great.

The problem is, you guys aren't agreeing on them. So you each have to decide, which is more important in the long run?

(in reply to perverseangelic)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 4:51:41 PM   
petwolf22


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline 		wow mnottertail, such sincerity and thoughtfulness in every post i've ever read. i'm not often sarcastic to strangers, but that definitely warrants a rolling of the eyes.

maybemaybenot, stay true to what your limits are....you talked about what they were in the beginning of the relationship. Not to say he can't push those limits, but in the end you'd ultimately have to be the one to decide to change them.

< Message edited by petwolf22 -- 9/25/2005 4:52:43 PM >

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 5:02:43 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, petwolf have at me but she made it pretty clear that she didn't set it in her intial limits. Additionally, I suspect that she is a pretty girl and has issues, so what? Don't we all.
Roll your fucking eyes then, stranger. You obviously have the handle on this and are gonna hip me to your wisdom.

Sincerely,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to petwolf22)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 5:03:43 PM   
RainGod


Posts: 230
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Hendersonville, NC
Status: offline
quote:

wow mnottertail, such sincerity and thoughtfulness in every post i've ever read. i'm not often sarcastic to strangers, but that definitely warrants a rolling of the eyes.


High-five to petwolf22! lol. Way to call 'em.

(in reply to petwolf22)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 5:12:11 PM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think you're being unreasonable. But on the other hand, neither is he. You did not make this issue a hard limit; therefore, he feels it is within his rights to make the request he has made. You, on the other hand, do not feel he has that right at all. Whether you are right or wrong depends entirely upon the nature and structure of your relationship.

In your own words, you have stated you are vain and self-conscious about your condition. He wants you to get over that self-consciousness, and the only way to do that is to face what it is that makes you self-conscious. You say you've coped with it, but if you HAVE to hide it, as you have also stated, you've not coped as well as you think you have.

I understand self-consciousness. I look in the mirror every day and ask myself what my Master could possibly find "beautiful" in what I see looking back at me. But He knows what He sees, and He wants me to see it, too. Yours sounds like he wants the same thing for you. Doesn't make him a bad guy.

So you're self-conscious and unwilling to go "all the way" on the makeup issue. What about cutting one thing out at a time. Say... the blush goes for a couple months. Then the mascara and the blush. Then the foundation. Baby steps.

As for those people who have the audacity to ask you what happened... the appropriate response is, "What a rude question. Why do you want to know?" That shuts 'em up every time.

Denise
the Kaptin's wench

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 5:15:07 PM   
fastlane


Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		Fastlane grabs the Popcorn and puts his money on petwolf!

I have to agree with you as well Petwolf....sorry Otter, call em like I see em!



_____________________________

Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

(in reply to RainGod)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 5:18:08 PM   
petwolf22


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline 		she actually did state that she had always been upfront and honest about it, and that it had just now become an issue.

i'd never dream of trying to trump your knowledge of all worldly things, mnottertail.

and so far as asking for advice about issues, isn't that part of the reason these forums even exist? regardless of how much we put into consideration the advice of strangers, she asked for an opinion on the situation, not her personal self issues. any body that ever asks a question on here may not always reveal all the issues...that's their perogative. all we can do is take what they've written at face value and respond.

(in reply to Evanesce)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 5:22:25 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Nope, no big gig, disagree as you please, we are all a community here. SWo, I am not big on these feeling the worthless sort issuse, so I say what asswipe, wipe your nose and show them your ass........and you feel different........so be it.........nobody is blocked here and I can stand a little disagreement, hell on the right night I might believe that this country is strong enough to have a couple communists in the government.....actually between you and me and the fencepost, I believe we will survive Bush.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to fastlane)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 5:27:49 PM   
fastlane


Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		Save the Whale

or the Otter?

Communist in government.....hmmm, now that is a stretch, but interesting Ron.

_____________________________

Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: makeup or no makeup - 9/25/2005 5:32:36 PM   
petwolf22


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline 		mnottertail,
maybe it's your wisened-up self that doesn't remember at any point in life having any kinds of issues with your selfesteem/selfworth? If you've managed to bypass all of that, you really should pass your wisdom on to future generations...that's something that all of society could benefit from.

(in reply to fastlane)
Profile   Post #: 20
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