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RE: Is everything alright? - 3/16/2008 9:35:35 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SinergyNstrumpet

quote:

I simply said that a Dominant who would allow this parent to verbally abuse him and whomever he is seeing, is unacceptable on the Dominants part.And frankly, a parent who rages and is permitted to verbally abuse and rage unchecked ,is one who needs to be in some kind of anger management..simply being a parent and older, does not entitle anyone to be permitted to such unacceptable behavior..and I am pretty sure I was not a proponent of not sacrificing for your family...but this parent as far as I can interpret by the second hand info we have received is not on his "deathbed"..he is elderly and possibly unable to live alone

I will say that as people become elderly issues of senility, and other brain disorders can make them angry, can cause them to fly into rages, and basically they are not responsible for what they do. This can happen to victims of Alzhiemers, garden variety dementia, and stroke victims. Complete and total personality changes are not unheard of in people who are advanced in age. Even though the elderly person may not be able to help their outbursts this does not preclude caregivers from having a life. It does demand a partner that will be understanding, caring, and tolerant.

julia

You are correct Julia.. I went under the supposition that this parent was fully cognitive...if this parent does have some kind of disorder, then of course the partner should be aware and patient and understanding..and I agree again in the statement that the caregiver should also have a life, and in his own home..I think the Dominant in question is selling his submissive way short...Tempting

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(in reply to SinergyNstrumpet)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/16/2008 10:08:26 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Steel, fine if you don't want your wife to join you at the office Christmas party, or to come with you to a visit to your parents. But then why insist you accompany her to her office party or to her family. If he doesn't want anyone to know what he's into, then why is he insisting he be part of her life when people can still see their method of relating?

And 16 or not, if you're ashamed of who you're dating, then shame on you.

It doesn't add up. Now obviously we're going on hearsay but our conclusions are also obviously based on the info we have been given. If one of them comes in tomorrow and gives vastly different info, then our comments will be different. But for anybody else in a situation like this, the overall conclusion still stands. He's involved and lying.

First things first DesFIP, I am enjoying this debate that we are having and I hope that is coming across in my Replies I am not angry or acusatory or annoyed at all. In case anyone thinks so I am simply offering another side.

When you said "If he doesn't want anyone to know what he's into, then why is he insisting he be part of her life when people can still see their method of relating?" I had to go back and re-read this already too long thread as it is.

Nowhere was it ever said that He Insisted in being a part of her life, and nowhere does it say he insists on meeting her friends and family I would assume (Dangerous I know) that he was invited and accepted the invite. It is more logical to assume that she invided him and he accepted rather to play the gambit that he insisted on meeting everyone she knows and he won't let her meet anyone he knows that is a level of Hypocrit that is RARE to come across. Not non-existant mind you, just RARE.

In addition, I don't do Christmas Parties, I really keep my privite social life and my business life VERY seperate. In my opinion and in my world Co-workers are not friends they are co-workers.

And to Honestly comment on your statement about my youth, I really don't think I was ashamed of them as much as I didn't know if I was supposed to be ashamed of what we did or not. The Social stigma I had growing up was one that said Hitting a girl was wrong and made you a pussy if you did, and sex was to make babies, and the only kind of girl who likes to be tied up is a whore and you have to pay her to do it. So at 16 Yes I kept the two seperate because I didn't know how to process the situation all I knew was I enjoyed what I was doing but I was told my entire life that I wasn't supposed to. I think I felt Shameful for what I was doing, NOT ashamed of her. Also my Mother is a Serious Feminist and the sight of a woman submitting to any man got her verbal and the sight of it happeneing with her own son at 16 would have been an embarassing discussion. The day I informed my Mother what I did she informed me she didn't want to know and we really have never discussed it since, I know she knows, we just don't talk about it. Just had to clear that up.

and on your Final thought I still say that you have decided in your mind this man is guilty and are sticking to it knowing nothing more about him then what a friend of thier said because her friend was upset and wanted to vent to someone. This is an EXTREMELY Bias situation to begin with, but to say that he is lying and involved leads me to question if you are bias against things like this to begin with. I wonder if something like this has happened to you and so you tend to gravitate toward this kind of answer to begin with.

I have het to introduce my wife and my Father, I have some friends who have never met my wife, and I would get upset if my girl pressed me at something I put my foot down as being a boundry and I can assure you I am involved in no affairs. It is simply a COMFORT factor for me.

In the same vein, and I have asked this many times before, If she had a hard limit or boundry set up from the beginning of the relationship would we be here discussing how horrible she is for not giving into his demands? Would we be asking what she has to hide? NO again we would be chastizing the Man for suggesting she give into something she stated from the beginning was OFF LIMITS.

Why is it okay for a sub to have a Limit but not for a Dom?

As Always

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
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For the Uber Posters
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(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 6:42:23 AM

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But, (I know I've asked this three times already, but Steel's question begs this question...erm...not that Steel would evah beg...) WAS this a hard limit from the beginning, (by which I mean was this made known to her within the first week or so, or did he allow her to think they were beginning a relationship, and THEN, when she was falling for him, it became a hard limit?)
My answer to this would be different from one scenario to the other.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 7:42:22 AM

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See I wonder that too because of the comment that when asked to meet his son he said "We'll see" Now this can be taken two different ways.

The first is that He has always had the boundry with his Father and she has asked about other people to see if they were different.

Or if he pasified her with "we'll see" and finally flat out said no to the father thing.

(Does that Make sense?)

Either way it would seem to me that reguardless of flat out Explained or Implied Unless she is touched in the head I would have come to understand LONG before a year into tis relationship that I would NEVER be meeting his Family.

I'm not a glutton for punishment maybe she is and the fact that she has yet to accept that he is unwilling to have her in THAT part of her life perhaps she is the one who is being unfair.

See I see things as common sence and I know in this day and age Common Sence is anything but, however, even if she only asked 4 times in one year she has been told "NO" flat out all 4 times. Sure if being a part of his family is THAT important to her I agree she should leave as she is unable to live up to HIS expectations. Again, However, The reasons he has for this have yet to be explained by ANYONE!! Other than the Father who we are to understand is a Bastard of a Man and has been responsible for ending MANY a relationship in this Man's Past. So all things considered I would have to believe that This Man has offered this girl all he is willing to and she still wants more.

If he has told her what she will be getting and she expects more then who here is really at fault? I keep going back to the girl because at every level it was HER decision to get involved and Stay involved with this man after he informed her that she would NOT be meeting his Father and in relation to this would NOT be meeting His friends or going to His house. He may not have Physically SAID these things to her or Wrote it out in a Contract, BUT In a Year you would think these things would become PAINFULLY Apparent.

Explained or not, in a Year that Boundry was Established on at least 4 occasions. Even thought the OP suggests that she had asked SEVERAL times which I wonder is that means she has only asked about the Father 4 times but about other people in his life many more.

In My Opinion if the relationship is as good as the Original Poster says it is, that is to say in 5 posts hes has mentioned how WONDERFUL This guy is, How Much she likes him, how good they look together, and how happy they USUALLY are, then I would accept the RARE Happiness that is being offered to her and Give up on the Family & Friends, The Father and the Son and just be the best girl she can to the one who is offering her this happiness, The Man everyone is so quick to call a cheating Bastard.

Ignorance at times can be Bliss and some things have to work thier course before a lesson can be learned.

Could he be a Bastard who is stringing this girl along for a year? ABSOLUTELY!!! However if he ISN'T then we have esentilly suggested the end of a one year relationship for no reason. I for one am not willing to tear apart relationships based on specualtion. The Long run will Prove the Theroy I suggest she stick with it and give up on the things he has set as Boundries.

As Always

Steel

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(in reply to xxblushesxx)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 7:58:14 AM

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From: Kentucky
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Yes, but it's the rare woman who can be content with such an arrangement.
Her asking over the course of a year leads me to believe that this is not ideal for her.
Perhaps it's acceptable. Idk...
If it were my sister, or best friend, though, I'd find out exactly what is going on.
Knowledge is power.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 8:31:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
In the same vein, and I have asked this many times before, If she had a hard limit or boundry set up from the beginning of the relationship would we be here discussing how horrible she is for not giving into his demands? Would we be asking what she has to hide? NO again we would be chastizing the Man for suggesting she give into something she stated from the beginning was OFF LIMITS.

Why is it okay for a sub to have a Limit but not for a Dom?

As Always

Steel

Yep, I asked this on page 1, post 4. A dominant male is ostracized for pushing a submissive female's limits, and apparently ostracized for having limits of his own that he doesn't want pushed. Is this "lifestyle" all about the female submissive??

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 8:42:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I don't believe he's married if he routinely spends holidays with her. Actually, I'd guess his story is exactly as he says, and she should stay the fuck away from his Dad's house. He couldn't have been clearer about that.

If I were in his shoes and she showed up at my Dad's house after I told her never to do so, I'd get rid of her instantly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkypuppy2

First opinion..
He is married....

Ditto.

He doens't have to live his life in any manner other than the one that he feels he should. It's not a dominant thing, it's a human thing. If my girl isn't happy with the relationship she has with me, she gets to decide if she wants to stay with me unhappy, or move on. It's nobody elses business who I let in my home, other than me. If she showed up at my door after I explicitly told her "show up at my door, and we're DONE!" we'd be done, there and then.

Caring for an elderly parent doesn't mean that parent dominates me. If he values the relationship with his father over the relationship with his submissive, that's entirely his perogative.

Stephan

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Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 8:46:34 AM

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And then, we're always so surprised when we see people on the news who have lived two (or more) seperate lives for years.
I'm not gonna be surprised any more.
Some people prefer not to know.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to Stephann)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 9:10:32 AM

SinergyNstrumpet

Posts: 305
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quote:

Yep, I asked this on page 1, post 4. A dominant male is ostracized for pushing a submissive female's limits, and apparently ostracized for having limits of his own that he doesn't want pushed. Is this "lifestyle" all about the female submissive??

No, it is not about whether or not he has limits that he cannot push, it is about whether she can live with his limits.

If she can't then she should move on to someone that fulfills her needs. He can find some other submissive that will respect his limits and his needs. I would give the same advice to a dominant that had needs which were not in line with a submissive's limits..

As far as limits pushed, in my humble opinion dominants have way more power to push a limit than a submissive does, and to ignore a limit. She has no power to compel him to do anything he is unwilling to do.

just a view

julia

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 9:43:29 AM

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See now this above I agree with

I believe that this is what should be discussed.

Not that he is Married or Hiding something but the discussion of if she should be able to accept it or not.

In My opinion he gives her much and she still wants more and I for one think that if she continues to push on the subject that I would be forced to inform her that I have made up my mind and that she will not be meeting My Father, Co-Workers, Friends, or Son and if she is unable to accpet that, If she cannot live with the fact that I will continue to give her all the other things just not those then she should leave and the door is where it was a year ago when she walked into my life.

The decision will be hers and hers alone.

If the real situation IS exactly as it has been laid out in this thread I respect the fact that he has been adament about NOT giving in on this subject. I believe that after he has said NO and set his foot down the discussion is over and to have her keep asking to me shows no respect for his wishes and in that vein that is something I could not accept in a submissive and I would be forced to correct the issue or release the girl,

My opinion of course.

Steel

_____________________________

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(in reply to SinergyNstrumpet)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 9:48:48 AM

SinergyNstrumpet

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quote:

In My opinion he gives her much and she still wants more and I for one think that if she continues to push on the subject that I would be forced to inform her that I have made up my mind and that she will not be meeting My Father, Co-Workers, Friends, or Son and if she is unable to accpet that, If she cannot live with the fact that I will continue to give her all the other things just not those then she should leave and the door is where it was a year ago when she walked into my life.

My opinion, is if I meant so little to a dominant that I could not be a part of his life, he could get the fuck out of Dodge...I have discovered something in this life, time is a-ticking away, I ain't getting any younger, throwing good after bad just means wasting my time. Daylight is shining in my life, and I am at high noon now...

I hope the OP's friend keeps reading

julia

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 9:50:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SinergyNstrumpet

quote:

Yep, I asked this on page 1, post 4. A dominant male is ostracized for pushing a submissive female's limits, and apparently ostracized for having limits of his own that he doesn't want pushed. Is this "lifestyle" all about the female submissive??

No, it is not about whether or not he has limits that he cannot push, it is about whether she can live with his limits.

If she can't then she should move on to someone that fulfills her needs. He can find some other submissive that will respect his limits and his needs. I would give the same advice to a dominant that had needs which were not in line with a submissive's limits..

As far as limits pushed, in my humble opinion dominants have way more power to push a limit than a submissive does, and to ignore a limit. She has no power to compel him to do anything he is unwilling to do.

just a view

julia

And, for me, one of the main issues is whether or not this so-called limit was discussed prior to proceding into a relationship, or if she was first drawn in, and then she was informed of this.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to SinergyNstrumpet)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 9:57:59 AM

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I am confused as to how the Story have ever displated that she did not mean anything to him.

How is meeting his family in any way connected for his feelings for her?

Why is it people do not understand that the two things are not exclusive to one another and in many situations are just NOT compatable! When the relationship started these are things that should have been discussed and if they were not and now things are being expected then you are absolutly right the girl should decide if she can handle it and if she can't then she needs to GO!!!

However to say he doesn't care about this girl sells him short and I can assure you that I have desperatly LOVED women that I was unable to connect to other parts of my life.

There are times in which things that I do DO NOT mix well with who I am. The entire time I was addicted to Meth I lived a whole seperate life from the girls I was with, they were always Non-Drug Using people and so they would not clash well with the Using people I was with. Sure she might have WANTED to meet my Dealer or my Connections but what Good would that have done other than end the relationship. Being addicted to Drugs and NOT telling the person I was with may have been wrong but I honestly felt that if I told them it would hurt them too much as well as end the relationship. I did not want this. I wanted to still be with her because we made each other happy.

Did anyone ever think that maybe there is the same situation going on here, This Man thinks FOR SURE that if he introduces the two that it will end the relationship and it has happened before according to the OP. Maybe he really just doesn't want to lose the girl?

Anyone ever try to see this guy as something OTHER than a Douche Bag?

As Always

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to SinergyNstrumpet)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 10:06:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

How is meeting his family in any way connected for his feelings for her? Why is it people do not understand that the two things are not exclusive to one another and in many situations are just NOT compatable! When the relationship started these are things that should have been discussed and if they were not and now things are being expected then you are absolutly right the girl should decide if she can handle it and if she can't then she needs to GO!!!

Steel, I know that you feel passionately about this subject, but I have to say, asking someone at the beginning of a relationship whether I will EVER meet ANYONE in his life (not just family) is not something that has ever occurred to me, because it just seems, well, normal. In fact, I wouldn't expect that it would come up UNLESS he plans on me NEVER meeting anyone in his life, and then I would expect him to bring it up and tell me that.

Cali

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 10:08:34 AM

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*nods and agrees with Cali*

But, Cali...erm...what about the blowjobs?

Oh!

Sorry!

Wrong thread!

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

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(in reply to CalifChick)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 10:23:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SinergyNstrumpet

quote:

In My opinion he gives her much and she still wants more and I for one think that if she continues to push on the subject that I would be forced to inform her that I have made up my mind and that she will not be meeting My Father, Co-Workers, Friends, or Son and if she is unable to accpet that, If she cannot live with the fact that I will continue to give her all the other things just not those then she should leave and the door is where it was a year ago when she walked into my life.

My opinion, is if I meant so little to a dominant that I could not be a part of his life, he could get the fuck out of Dodge...I have discovered something in this life, time is a-ticking away, I ain't getting any younger, throwing good after bad just means wasting my time. Daylight is shining in my life, and I am at high noon now...

I hope the OP's friend keeps reading

julia

See, I think that's the problem with threads like this one. We only have the 'friend' to read the thread, and have no other information other than what she shares. We're dealing with a hypothetical situation proposed by someone who already has a clear slant on the issue.

I'll play his friend a second:

"My buddy JOhn, a guy I've known for years, has been caring for his sick father for the past seven. His father is a real piece of work. Neither can afford an elderly care home, and his father would literally be homeless if it wasn't for John's compassion. Before the accident, John's dad was a really good man who worked hard to put him through school, but brain damage has left him with severe emotional trauma.

John's been involved with this girl Jan for about a year. She's a great gal, they have fun together, and I can see she's the light of his life. But John's dad HATES having visitors in the house, screams, pounds on the ground, and is unruly for days on end when people are over. John's already lost two great relationships over this guy, and is about to give up on Jan, because he just doesn't want to deal with what will happen if she visits. He refuses to put his father who could be dead in six months out of his life, but would be sad if Jan left. What should he do?"

There's three sides to every story. Whatever sides in this one, I'm not interested in the specifics so much as I am in the issues that are addressed in the situation. John very well isn't the perfect dominant for lots of women, but that doesn't mean he's not entitled to find happiness in whatever manner he may.

Stephan

_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to SinergyNstrumpet)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 10:27:41 AM

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Actually, the OP is clearly on the side you just stated.
It's some of the rest of us who have problems with it.
Oh, and I would tell 'John' to have some faith in this woman who he expects to trust him with her life, or possibly her safety, if they play...
I would also tell John to introduce her to some of his friends and family so she doesn't feel she's being shut out.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to Stephann)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 10:36:15 AM

SinergyNstrumpet

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quote:

I would also tell John to introduce her to some of his friends and family so she doesn't feel she's being shut out.

See, this is the issue, it is not just the father that "Jan" can't meet, it is the other people in his life.

I haven't met Sinergy's parents yet. I have met his coworkers, his landlady, one of his UMs, and his best friend since kindergarten...I will eventually meet his other UM who lives several hours away from him, just haven't had the opportunity to yet. I have mentioned the desire to meet his parents on more than one occasion, for his personal reasons this hasn't happened yet... If he excluded me from meeting anyone in his life, that would be a big red flag... one that having a cranky parent would not explain to me.

julia

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 10:37:32 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SinergyNstrumpet

quote:

Yep, I asked this on page 1, post 4. A dominant male is ostracized for pushing a submissive female's limits, and apparently ostracized for having limits of his own that he doesn't want pushed. Is this "lifestyle" all about the female submissive??

No, it is not about whether or not he has limits that he cannot push, it is about whether she can live with his limits.

If she can't then she should move on to someone that fulfills her needs. He can find some other submissive that will respect his limits and his needs. I would give the same advice to a dominant that had needs which were not in line with a submissive's limits..

As far as limits pushed, in my humble opinion dominants have way more power to push a limit than a submissive does, and to ignore a limit. She has no power to compel him to do anything he is unwilling to do.

just a view

julia

I agree it's about whether she can live with his limits. But from the comments of many of the posts on this thread, many seem to be saying he shouldn't have this limit to begin with, or he should get rid of this limit. My question was in regards to those views.

I think it is an assumption to claim she means little to him. In 6 pages of this thread, we have not seen his point of view, or even her point of view directly from her. Yet we HAVE seen post after post with assumptions about him, about how he should change, about how he isn't good enough for her...and so I wonder, do most people somehow think D/s is all about the submissive? I would be genuinely interested to see the views of someone who believes it is.

I have also seen the question asked if she had known this from the beginning. The OP said she assumed she would be able to. More assumption, less discussion. We have no idea what their conversations have been in this year long (or more) relationship.

In fact, we don't know anything at all about this relationship except he waited almost a year to collar her (not abnormal) and she hasn't met his family (for reasons we do not know). How all these conclusions developed from that is a mystery.

(in reply to SinergyNstrumpet)

RE: Is everything alright? - 3/17/2008 10:51:38 AM

SinergyNstrumpet

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quote:

I agree it's about whether she can live with his limits. But from the comments of many of the posts on this thread, many seem to be saying he shouldn't have this limit to begin with, or he should get rid of this limit. My question was in regards to those views.

Hmmm...I believe a dominant shouldn't keep a submissive that he knows will not be happy within his limits. Just an opinion.

quote:

I think it is an assumption to claim she means little to him. In 6 pages of this thread, we have not seen his point of view, or even her point of view directly from her. Yet we HAVE seen post after post with assumptions about him, about how he should change, about how he isn't good enough for her...and so I wonder, do most people somehow think D/s is all about the submissive? I would be genuinely interested to see the views of someone who believes it is.

I am clueless about how much she means to him. If it were me it would signal that I did not mean enough.

My submission is all about me, what fulfills me, and getting my needs met. That being said, our relationship is about us. And yes, if a man did not want to have me as part of his every day life, for me that would be unacceptable, I would question it. There would not be an "us" to develop anymore. If someone else does not care about that limit and they are happy within that relationship structure, that is ok too. If she was satisfied she wouldn't be questioning it, if her alarm bells were not ringing she wouldn't ask most likely. At least that is my experience with women, we only question like that if we are smelling bullshit. That is just my opinion

quote:

I have also seen the question asked if she had known this from the beginning. The OP said she assumed she would be able to. More assumption, less discussion. We have no idea what their conversations have been in this year long (or more) relationship.

Granted, but as Cali said, the assumption from the beginning is that one will meet friends, family, and coworkers one day... not be excluded, especially if a woman is allowing the man to be a part of her family and her life. So now I suppose those of us looking should include in our profiles Looking for a partner that will let me into their life (actually I did do that because I had a situation much like the OPs in my first D/s relationship which is why I am posting so much on this thread I suppose).

quote:

In fact, we don't know anything at all about this relationship except he waited almost a year to collar her (not abnormal)

That isn't abnormal to me

quote:

and she hasn't met his family (for reasons we do not know). How all these conclusions developed from that is a mystery.

That is abnormal in my experience, and D/s does not make it so.

Just an opinion

julia

PS, I am not judging those who are satisfied with such an arrangement, but if the OP has communicated anything in this thread, her "friend" isn't

< Message edited by SinergyNstrumpet -- 3/17/2008 10:53:01 AM >

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

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