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What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 7:27:01 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		A simple question;

What is the true nature of submission ?

What is a true submissive ?



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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 7:30:35 AM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline 		is there a 'true nature' of submission or is that like falling into the trap of 'true human  nature'?



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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 7:34:07 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		a true submissive is one that measures up as being true when using a carpenters triangle of course

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 7:42:24 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Before answering that "simple" question these others need consensus agreement:
  • What is the "true nature" or 'true'?
  • How does perspective and life experience change 'true'?
    • If it does - is the definition expanded?
    • If, as a result of the change, people are now outside the definition do they have to surrender their "true submissive" membership card?

  • Is "nature" impacted by nurture?
  • Is is possible with nurture, to change "nature"? (Asking for all those who start threads; "How do I make my vanilla partner my sub/Dom/slave/Master?"

Also - if you don't fit the ultimate decided upon consensus definition of "true submissive" are you required to turn in your collar and always be contrary?

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 7:42:26 AM   
UR2Badored


Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline 		A person's natural response when encountering his or her (or a reciprocal) counterpart of domination--Is that an answer?.......

There will be those who say is it how a person defines him or herself. Some will say there is a definable criteria. Possibly, somewhere in between?   Can we force anyone to perceive us the way we perceive ourselves?  Is submission (keeping "true" out it) only a response to an action and not something that can truly stand alone?

Sorry, I have more questions than answers.

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 5/17/2008 8:34:02 AM >

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 7:46:44 AM   
SleepyDom


Posts: 118
Status: offline 		A true submissive is one that submits to me.  Everyone else is a fake obviously.

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 7:50:37 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

A simple question;

What is the true nature of submission ?

What is a true submissive ?


I like Mercnbeth's answer...it goes a long way towards saying what I feel;  there is no such thing as a "true" submissive.  Perspective comes into play.  What I perceive as the "true, perfect" submissive...though I have yet to find someone I would characterize as such...another dominant might consider as a "wannabe" while another dominant might consider as a "slave".  Of course, I have a hard time characterizing any of the so-called stars of Hollywood today as "true stars" in the classic sense of some of their earlier counterparts so there's an example of MY perspective versus someone else's but...only in one area.  Some...though...not all of the so-called "stars" of my own little healthcare universe are not seen as "stars" by me but rather as pompous ego-driven orators of the highest nature and yet, they got where they are because some DO see them that way.

To end, I might consider myself as a dominant...a "true" dominant whereas others may see me as a wannabe and others still may see me as a mild sort with some tendencies towards dominance.  It depends on your perspective. 

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 7:54:19 AM   
faerytattoodgirl


Posts: 5824
Status: offline 		there is no TWUE answers

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 8:31:10 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

A simple question;

What is the true nature of submission ?

What is a true submissive ?




Setting aside all the sarcastic and smart assed remarks, I feel that the answer to these 2 questions is solely based upon an individuals definitions of what they believe is true. Much in the same way, a person tries to define what is "the true measure of a man is" It is a concept which I don't believe there will ever be a simple answer and an answer which will be generally accepted by the majority of the human population.

Each individual will concieve their own opinion and form an answer they believe is logical from their own POV that is formulated from experiencing life and taking that knowledge and moulding it into a concept which suits that person only.


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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 8:42:29 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Many paths lead to the truth.

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 8:48:52 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

Thank you  for another TRUE thread.

In the future save everyone from having to type the exact same CRAP and just use your search function and see all the CRAP people have ALREADY said on the topic. Cause so far in the 11 years I have been at this lifestyle I have yet to hear anything NEW on the subject.

Steel

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 8:55:57 AM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		Anybody up for a Submissive Game of Mental Ninja Kung Fool?

In all sincerity, I believe the answer rests within each and every person who is submissive. 

At times the only real answers to our questions is this. It is!

This question is a bit like muzing over questions such as, what is the true nature of a rock?  What really is a true rock?   Do not rocks come in many shapes and forms my fiend?  Is not the true nature of a rock what we do with it?  It can be used as part of a building.  It can be used a paper weight,  It can be used as part of a road.   What really is the true nature of anything, save what we want it to be?

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:00:01 AM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave


This question is a bit like muzing over questions such as, what is the true nature of a rock?  What really is a true rock?   Do not rocks come in many shapes and forms my fiend?  Is not the true nature of a rock what we do with it?  It can be used as part of a building.  It can be used a paper weight,  It can be used as part of a road.   What really is the true nature of anything, save what we want it to be?



great. i'm working off of less than four hours of sleep and now i'm thinking plato and the 'true' object.

we are all but shadows of our own true natures! besides what would be accomplished by discovering this 'true nature' other than hurting a lot of people in the process? there's enough stuff in society that can be used against someone without finding a 'true' definition to hold someone up to.


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“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” churchill

the first rule of fluff club is that you don't talk about fluff club!

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:02:59 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah



Thank you  for another TRUE thread.

In the future save everyone from having to type the exact same CRAP and just use your search function and see all the CRAP people have ALREADY said on the topic. Cause so far in the 11 years I have been at this lifestyle I have yet to hear anything NEW on the subject.

Steel


If you come to these boards and see the same 'crap' as you have said you have seen in all those long years in the lifestyle, it begs the question, why do you come here if it is the same old 'crap' ?

Are you expecting people to evolve so much as to have a new perspective  in only eleven years ?


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:06:14 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Egads Merc - now I remember why I missed reading the forums while I was taking a break!
 
I shudder to think  how quickly this particularly thread is likely to turn into a repeat of similar in the past, and hornblowing of the "One Twue Way" types....

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:07:39 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

A simple question;

What is the true nature of submission ?

What is a true submissive ?

Outside of clinical behavioral psychology you'll find no consistent answers.  The majority of answers you'll likely find on these forae will be heavily colored by personal perspectives... that is, people will say what is subjectively true for them with little consideration for any objective standards that might be applicable.  You'll also find, as has already been demonstrated, a general animosity and resistance towards any form of objective definition in favor of validating all subjective ones.

In short, people want to do what they want without anyone being able to say they're wrong.  Even if you do tell them they're wrong, they'll still do as they please... only now they'll resent you and seek to exclude you.  So outside of either a personal curiosity or a desire for a clinical understanding of human behavior in this context.... why ask why?

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:12:42 AM   
fluffyswitch


Posts: 1108
Joined: 9/29/2007
From: Buffalo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

A simple question;

What is the true nature of submission ?

What is a true submissive ?

Outside of clinical behavioral psychology you'll find no consistent answers. 



(don't forget theories of socialization. sorry. couldn't resist. lol.) seriously though the problem with asking theoretical questions is that you get theoretical answers which even sociologists admit don't get you very far.


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“Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” churchill

the first rule of fluff club is that you don't talk about fluff club!

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:17:17 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah



Thank you  for another TRUE thread.

In the future save everyone from having to type the exact same CRAP and just use your search function and see all the CRAP people have ALREADY said on the topic. Cause so far in the 11 years I have been at this lifestyle I have yet to hear anything NEW on the subject.

Steel


If you come to these boards and see the same 'crap' as you have said you have seen in all those long years in the lifestyle, it begs the question, why do you come here if it is the same old 'crap' ?

Are you expecting people to evolve so much as to have a new perspective  in only eleven years ?



In all reality No. I don't. What I do hope for is someone who can give a well thought out Idea on what THIER view of submission is and then discuss the differences in what THEY believe not a Free for all Open ended argument of what is Right and what is Wrong.

Look I don't mind that people disagree it is one of the things that makes discource enjoyable it is the fact that not everyone feels the same way. But we don't discuss the things that we as Individuals do we try to make a List of things that make something "Right" and a list of things that make something "Wrong".

See I don't mind someone disagreeing with me I don't even mind someone offering a comepletely different view from my own and I would love to discuss it till the cows come home. BUT what I Object to and what these types of threads eventually come down to people saying that I am Wrong because They are right and that is just something I can't stand.

Anyone who knows me knows I HATE definition Threads because no one is actually looking to define anything they are wanting to draw a line in the sand and see how many people join them on thier side. Because when we define what is "TRUE" and what one MUST have to be "Dominant" or "submissive" we aren't defining the whole of our lifestyle society we are trying to segregate people into the Groups of those who are and the groups of those who are not, and all segregation does is further divide a main group.

The saying that says "United we stand divided we fall" applies to all the other threads about why BDSM cannot become Mainstream, The answer is simple we can't even agree amongts ourselves what we are, so how can we get the world to understand and accept what we are?

I don't mind a Thread that Discusses THESE issues I have a problem with the endless threads that do nothing but breed argument and further the segregation if this lifestyle because people like to watch hungry dogs fight over spoiled meat.

So if you want to discuss WHY True may or may not be necessary in the Lifestyle that would be a good conversation but if you just want to know what people think one IS then you can find nearly 200 Pages of it on this site and just about as many differences of opinions.

Steel

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Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:21:58 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

...it begs the question, why do you come here if it is the same old 'crap' ?

There are days I ask myself that... LOL

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: What is the true nature of......... - 5/17/2008 9:25:15 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		My intention of the question was not to learn what an individual's own idea of what the true nature is, but what submission boils down to, what is the need someone feels that they would submit themself to another human being.

There are naturally leaders and naturally followers, that is humanity, by that I understand there are natural Dominants and natural submissives, but what defines a human's need to submit, is it the nature of them or is there another reason.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
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