RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag

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Irishknight -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 5:58:22 AM)
The most racist people I've ever met were in the north. They are no better in that respext than the folks down here. The difference was that they were saying everything the guys down here said but doing it behind your back. They were sneakier. I guess you prefer someone waiting to knife you in the back than the overt assholes we have down here. Southern pride has always been here. It actually grew stronger after the war because the south was able to survive and rebuild despite the "help" the from carpetbagging opportunists.They were able to get past those profiteering bastards and start over. Pink, you are right that I am not of African decent ... (Well there is actually one member of the family tree that my grandmother said was black and grandpa wouldn't talk about. All that northern "gentleman" would say was that there "weren't no N-words" in his family.) I am Irish. My family members came over as "indentured servants" and various other terms for slaves. A friend of mine is descended from Chinese "railroad workers" who were chained, locked in boxcars and whipped when they didn't work fast enough. I have neither said that they were right in their way of life nor have I supported it. However, the fact that they were fighting for what they believed was their right IS my assertion. It was what they knew and they felt it was in danger. If people, white or black, cannot learn to see both the good and the bad in history, then they will fall right back into the cycle. If the flag reminds you of slavery only, then use that to keep in mind to ensure that it never happens again.Thats why we study the bad parts of history too. In one of my favorite movies the hero addresses his troops. "We fight now for an offense that we did not commit. None of us were alive when the offense was committed. None of those we fight was alive when the offense was committed."

DomKen -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 6:14:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Kudzu, however, was the perfect conductor. If only that were true. Stupid plant.

Smith117 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 2:32:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight 1) Whether or not people's "rights" were being violated, they believed it and were willing to fight for the way of life they feared they would lose.Â To waste time with you continually saying "What rights?" is ridiculous and I have niether the time nor inclination.Â I could play the same game whenever anyone starts whining about how their rights are being taken away today.Â The belief was there and they fought and died for that belief. And lost. And the continued rebel flag-waving and spouting about how "the south shall rise again" shows nothing but contempt for a country they are a part of and is by its definition very divisive. quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight 2) Why not put the US Flag on the car and call it the "General Grant?"Â Please.Â We're going for pure aesthetics here.Â The car would not have looked half as cool and people would have whined about the misuse of the American flag in that manner. Ever heard of humor? Joke? Funny? I happen to think the General Lee looks fine the way it is. HOWEVER, one must question the symbolism, being that Lee, and the south, LOST. quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight 3) Why should we in the south not just "Get the fuck over it?"Â Why don't you forget your family history and the way your family lived in past times.Â Its our country's history and we want to remember it .... the good and the bad.Â Why don't you ask the jews to get the fuck over the holocaust or the indians to get the fuck over the trail of tears.Â For those of you who have yet to realize it, the truth of the situation doesn't sit in your high school history book that you probably didn't even open.Â There is only the tip of the iceberg in there.Â There are numerous reprintoings of leyyers and diaries from those years in libraries today.Â Look for them and read what those people went through and what they fought for.Â Maybe then you can see why we're "American by birth.Â Douthern by the grace of God (or whichever deity you worship)."Â No one at all is suggesting anyone forget their heritage. However, I could throw that phrase back at ya, if I were so inclined. The south already 'forgot their heritage' when they decided to leave the union. They took their ball and went home, abandoning a country they were a part of, which then subsequently returned them to it by force. Personally, I don't think the civil war should have occured. I think the south was a bunch of spoiled brats who decided they didn't want to play with the rest of the country. They wouldn't help in the war against Britain. As another poster said they wanted all the benefits but didn't want to do any of the work. Then when the North decided they should start acting like a country, they took their ball and went home...or tried unsuccessfully to do so anyway. None of that, however, is ANYTHING compared to the holocaust or the plight of the Indians. The South was ALREADY part of our country and then threw a fit and decided to leave. Then they lost and were re-absorbed. Period. quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight After living in the north for 9 abysmal years, you guys can have it. I don't want it. I'm from Texas. We won OUR war. ;-)

Smith117 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 2:40:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou You don't have to work outside during the summers by the way unless you dropped out of high school. How very presumptive of you. I know more than a few people who work in outdoor jobs who did, in fact, graduate high school. My best friend is one. You can't be a dropout and be the foreman/supervisor on a HVAC crew making $20 an hour. quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou You should read the entire post before you make comments. Of course people get poked at because of their accents. But, not a lot of folks are retiring in New York. It's not something they have to hear from people that live there. I read the part of posts that makes some degree of a point, wrong though it may be. As for your (nonexistent) stats on where people retire....who cares? Older people have thinner blood.....ummmm duh? Raise your hand if you didn't know that. Anyone? quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Actually I don't know that, because it's not a fact. "Yankee" has a number of different meanings and no one is precisely sure of it's origin. It's been used by Southernors in reference to Northerners well after the American Civil War. If you'd read a little more, you'd know that. I told you before to stop getting your philosophy and history from action movies, Smith. A Yankee is someone of United States origin or heritage. A soldier identified as a Patriot during the American Revolutionary War A Union soldier during the American Civil War Swamp Yankee, a rural resident of Rhode Island or Connecticut with colonial ancestry Sorry, I don't recall reading that in an action movie. Nice try at a superfluous distraction, though. It's also funny that you counter my point.....by totally agreeing with it. That's an unusual tactic. Observe: quote: ORIGINAL: Me You do know that "Yankees" were a side during the Civil War....that ended (with a southern LOSS) centuries ago, right? quote: ORIGINAL: you It's been used by Southernors in reference to Northerners well after the American Civil War. Way to state what I said using different words. [sm=applause.gif]

popeye1250 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 2:43:57 PM)
Sure you can it's called "On the job training." Wow, $20 an hour! Golllllll-eeee!

Irishknight -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 2:45:57 PM)
Strange. A Texan who fails to realize that his state was on the same side as mine during the conflict and that they lost just like the rest of us. As for "winning your war." look up a little history. The Four Winds Cherokee Confederation leant their braves to Sam Houston to defeat the Mexicans in return for citizenship. They were paid back by returning home to find their wives and children slaughtered by settlers and the bodiesof their loved ones burning in piles. They killed the men and sent the women and children running back to the nearest group of white men. For their service and winning your war, they were robbed, their families nurdered and they were hunted down like animals. Something to be proud of there.

Smith117 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 2:46:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Sure you can it's called "On the job training." Wow, $20 an hour! Golllllll-eeee! So I suppose you think that cops are dropouts too? They make roughly that amount and they work outdoors A LOT. Though....last I saw....they required a college degree or a substantial amount of college hours to be a cop. Funny that.

Smith117 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 2:53:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight Strange. A Texan who fails to realize that his state was on the same side as mine during the conflict and that they lost just like the rest of us. As for "winning your war." look up a little history. The Four Winds Cherokee Confederation leant their braves to Sam Houston to defeat the Mexicans in return for citizenship. They were paid back by returning home to find their wives and children slaughtered by settlers and the bodiesof their loved ones burning in piles. They killed the men and sent the women and children running back to the nearest group of white men. For their service and winning your war, they were robbed, their families nurdered and they were hunted down like animals. Something to be proud of there. Oh contraire....I realize all that I need to. "Following the election of Abraham Lincoln in 1860, public opinion in the Lower South (South Carolina through Texas) swung in favor of secession. By February 1861, the other six states of the sub-region had separately passed ordinances of secession. Possibly one reason why Texas had not done likewise was the determination of Governor Sam Houston to keep the state in the Union. Unlike the other "Cotton States" chief executives who took the initiative in secessionist efforts, Houston refused to call the Texas Legislature into special session to consider the question, relenting only when it became apparent citizens were prepared to act without him. In December 1860, a group of state officials drew up a petition declaring Lincoln's election an imminent danger to Southern rights and called for a statewide election of delegates to assemble in convention in January to decide Texas' course. Houston called the legislature into session, gambling that the elected body might be inclined—or persuaded—to block any separatist action by the convention. On January 21, 1861, the legislature met in Austin and was addressed by Houston. Calling Lincoln's election "unfortunate" he nonetheless emphasized—in a reference to the upcoming meeting of the secession convention—it was no justification for "rash action." The Texas Legislature voted the delegates expense money and supplies. Over Houston's veto, the Legislature made a pledge to uphold the legality of the Convention's actions, requiring only that the people of Texas have the final say in referendum." And... "Texas was most useful for supplying soldiers for Confederate forces and in the cavalry. Texas was mainly a "supply state" for the Confederate forces until mid-1863, when the Union capture of the Mississippi River made large movements of men, horses or cattle impossible." Let's see.....a state whose governor did NOT want to succeede........becoming a "supply state" during the war until its neighbor was taken by the North. Hmmm. Let's see now.....take on an entire group of states, whilst cut off from any and all support, costing many Texan lives....or 'play along' until it suited us not to. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Oh.....and I'll listen to a "southern man" lecture me about what I can and can't be proud of the day after.....never.

popeye1250 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 2:55:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Sure you can it's called "On the job training." Wow, $20 an hour! Golllllll-eeee! So I suppose you think that cops are dropouts too? They make roughly that amount and they work outdoors A LOT. Though....last I saw....they required a college degree or a substantial amount of college hours to be a cop. Funny that. No it doesn't, not in Massachusetts anyway. All you have to do is pass a Civil Service exam. And if you're a minority you only have to get a 35 on the exam! It's called "Affirmative Action." High school drop out? "No Problem!" And the ones that they hired during the 70's and 80's couldn't even read or write that well that's why they had to send them to Northeastern U. for "remedial" reading and writing courses because they couldn't make out a proper police or fire report.

Smith117 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 2:56:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 No it doesn't, not in Massachusetts anyway. All you have to do is pass a Civil Service exam. And if you're a minority you only have to get a 35 on the exam! It's called "Affirmative Action." High school drop out? "No Problem!" And the ones that they hired during the 70's and 80's couldn't even read or write that well that's why they had to send them to Northeastern U. for "remedial" reading and writing courses because they couldn't make out a proper police or fire report. I ain't in massachusetts, now am I?

celticlord2112 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 2:58:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 So I suppose you think that cops are dropouts too? They make roughly that amount and they work outdoors A LOT. I wouldn't call riding between doughnut shops in an air-conditioned police cruiser working "outdoors"...... And the ones standing outside office buildings directing traffic? they're off duty cops getting paid by the property (at least here in Houston that's the case).

camille65 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 3:00:17 PM)
I guess it's weird but I've never thought of Texas as being South - South. Granted my geography is beyond shaky (I am positive that cartographers spend their spare time switching countries and states around just to torment me along with changing north/south/east/west/left/right with some sort of bizarre glee). South to me would be hmm... Georgia. The Carolinas. Mississippi but not Lousiana lol. Arkansas yup. And Alabama. The rest are just states. [:D] I am kinda fun to travel with unless I'm navigating!!

Smith117 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 3:01:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 So I suppose you think that cops are dropouts too? They make roughly that amount and they work outdoors A LOT. I wouldn't call riding between doughnut shops in an air-conditioned police cruiser working "outdoors"...... And the ones standing outside office buildings directing traffic? they're off duty cops getting paid by the property (at least here in Houston that's the case). And to that I say nothing, as I know for a fact you've never been a cop. Nor could you be.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 3:03:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 Let's see.....a state whose governor did NOT want to succeede........becoming a "supply state" during the war until its neighbor was taken by the North. Hmmm. Let's see now.....take on an entire group of states, whilst cut off from any and all support, costing many Texan lives....or 'play along' until it suited us not to. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Texas....a state that seceded from the Union and joined the Confederacy on 1 February 1861. Sam Houston opposed secession....the rest of Texas was apparently ok with the concept.

Smith117 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 3:03:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: camille65 I guess it's weird but I've never thought of Texas as being South - South. Granted my geography is beyond shaky (I am positive that cartographers spend their spare time switching countries and states around just to torment me along with changing north/south/east/west/left/right with some sort of bizarre glee). South to me would be hmm... Georgia. The Carolinas. Mississippi but not Lousiana lol. Arkansas yup. And Alabama. The rest are just states. [:D] I am kinda fun to travel with unless I'm navigating!! Exactly....and here's another factor. No one complains when they see OUR flag on pole. People are proud of it. And no one mistakes it for being racist. Why don't fly the rebel flag here......can't imagine why. Hmmmmm......[sm=rolleyes.gif]

Smith117 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 3:04:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 Let's see.....a state whose governor did NOT want to succeede........becoming a "supply state" during the war until its neighbor was taken by the North. Hmmm. Let's see now.....take on an entire group of states, whilst cut off from any and all support, costing many Texan lives....or 'play along' until it suited us not to. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Texas....a state that seceded from the Union and joined the Confederacy on 1 February 1861. Sam Houston opposed secession....the rest of Texas was apparently ok with the concept. Yeah, thanks for restating what I already quoted. But I addressed this. Cut me off from the ally I want to help....and I can 'pretend' for awhile too. And yet we STILL don't fly the rebel flag here. Again I say....funny that.

Irishknight -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 3:06:51 PM)
Wow. I guess since they only engaged in supplying troops and equipment, they weren't on a side. I could really care less what you'll listen to. People who are afraid of the truth usually do close their ears while bitching about others. I'll just go back to having pride in the area I come from. Our people survived the aftermath of the war and rebuilt. Thats where the southern pride comes from. No one has challenged your statement that the south lost. That doesn't mean that everything they did was wrong or everything the north did was right. I wouldn't expect you to listen to that because I'm just an ignorant southern man who isn't filled with silly anger over other people's bumper stickers.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 3:08:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 And to that I say nothing, as I know for a fact you've never been a cop. Nor could you be. Yeah, that's saying "nothing" alright. Whatever dude....

Gwynvyd -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 3:15:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SubRefuge quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd that is actualy incorrect... the cross was not the symbol of the Inquistion. Umm...you are saying the Catholic church didn't use the cross as their symbol in the Inquisition? The Spanish Inquisition was used for both political and religious reasons. Spain is a nation-state that was born out of religious struggle between numerous different belief systems including Catholicism, Islam, Protestantism and Judaism. Following the Crusades and the Reconquest of Spain by the Christian Spaniards the leaders of Spain needed a way to unify the country into a strong nation. Ferdinand and Isabella chose Catholicism to unite Spain and in 1478 asked permission of the pope to begin the Spanish Inquisition to purify the people of Spain. They began by driving out Jews, Protestants and other non-believers. In 1483 Tomas de Torquemada became the inquisitor-general for most of Spain. He was responsible for establishing the rules of inquisitorial procedure and creating branches of the Inquisition in various cities. He remained the leader of the Spanish Inquisition for fifteen years and is believed to be responsible for the execution of around 2,000 Spaniards. The Inquisition was run procedurally by the inquisitor-general who established local tribunals of the Inquisition. Accused heretics were identified by the general population and brought before the tribunal. The were given a chance to confess their heresy against the Catholic Church and were also encouraged to indict other heretics. If they admitted their wrongs and turned in other aggressors against the church they were either released or sentenced to a prison penalty. If they would not admit their heresy or indict others the accused were publicly introduced in a large ceremony before they were publicly killed or sentenced to a life in prison. Around the 1540s the Spanish Inquisition turned its fire on the Protestants in Spain in an attempt to further unify the nation. The Spanish Inquisition's reign of terror was finally suppressed in 1834. http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/WestEurope/SpanInqui.html The cross as a Christian symbol or "seal" came into use at least as early as the second century (see "Apost. Const." iii. 17; Epistle of Barnabas, xi.-xii.; Justin, "Apologia," i. 55-60; "Dial. cum Tryph." 85-97); and the marking of a cross upon the forehead and the chest was regarded as a talisman against the powers of demons (Tertullian, "De Corona," iii.; Cyprian, "Testimonies," xi. 21–22; Lactantius, "Divinæ Institutiones," iv. 27, and elsewhere). Accordingly the Christian Fathers had to defend themselves, as early as the second century, against the charge of being worshipers of the cross, as may be learned from Tertullian, "Apologia," xii., xvii., and Minucius Felix, "Octavius," xxix. Christians used to swear by the power of the cross (see Apocalypse of Mary, viii., in James, "Texts and Studies," iii. 118). quote: as for the Crusades.. well that was this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Crusaders.gif not a simple cross alone. Nothing to be feared unless you were a Muslim. Well, if it is on Wikipedia, it MUST be true! Once again, since Christianity was driving the Crusades ANY cross probably brought fear to the middle eastern people. And once again, your last comment is telling "Nothing to be feared unless you were a Muslim. " Spoken like a true Christian. I guess Muslims don't count? It doesn't matter if they were raped, maimed and killed by Christians because "God was on their side"? Nice thinking. quote: Crosses for the most part in the worlds view mean hope, and Christ. Crosses are not seen to be an evil or negative symbol... Gwyn Only to Christians is this a positive symbol. To me, a Christian cross indicates closed minded thinking by people who can't think for themselves and need to be told what to think. Are you being obtuse on purpose? I am sorry the Christian cross TO YOU means horrible and awful things.. however to most it does not. Being as that I just taught a class at my church on the Muslim faith and how we can all learn from other world religons like it... ( and not judge faiths based on misconceptions) I would prefer you not put your meaning into my postings... thank you. The basic standard cross was not used by the Crusaders.. the one I listed was. It even states in the link why it was. ~ I studied the Crusades so yes I know thier hoors, and why and how they were carried out. ( personaly I am on the Muslim side in the battle if it came down to it.) Bunch of assholes comming to my country demanding things of my people? Fuck that! The nothing to be feared comment was a tongue in cheek comment. those who know me.. know my sense of humor. just an FYI I am Hindu mixed with a couple of other things. Any one who spats on any religion and uses the term as if it is a curse to be a follower instantly has a closed mind. So sorry about your past. Gwyn

rulemylife -> RE: Tampa to erect a huge Confederate flag (6/3/2008 3:17:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou You don't have to work outside during the summers by the way unless you dropped out of high school. How very presumptive of you. I know more than a few people who work in outdoor jobs who did, in fact, graduate high school. My best friend is one. You can't be a dropout and be the foreman/supervisor on a HVAC crew making $20 an hour. quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou You should read the entire post before you make comments. Of course people get poked at because of their accents. But, not a lot of folks are retiring in New York. It's not something they have to hear from people that live there. I read the part of posts that makes some degree of a point, wrong though it may be. As for your (nonexistent) stats on where people retire....who cares? Older people have thinner blood.....ummmm duh? Raise your hand if you didn't know that. Anyone? quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou Actually I don't know that, because it's not a fact. "Yankee" has a number of different meanings and no one is precisely sure of it's origin. It's been used by Southernors in reference to Northerners well after the American Civil War. If you'd read a little more, you'd know that. I told you before to stop getting your philosophy and history from action movies, Smith. A Yankee is someone of United States origin or heritage. A soldier identified as a Patriot during the American Revolutionary War A Union soldier during the American Civil War Swamp Yankee, a rural resident of Rhode Island or Connecticut with colonial ancestry Sorry, I don't recall reading that in an action movie. Nice try at a superfluous distraction, though. It's also funny that you counter my point.....by totally agreeing with it. That's an unusual tactic. Observe: quote: ORIGINAL: Me You do know that "Yankees" were a side during the Civil War....that ended (with a southern LOSS) centuries ago, right? quote: ORIGINAL: you It's been used by Southernors in reference to Northerners well after the American Civil War. Way to state what I said using different words. [sm=applause.gif] Thinner blood? Consider my hand raised. Are all your arguments based on old wive's tales?

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